Dracul

well as you might know if you read my thread a few weeks ago i had engine trouble... well long story short my loan fell through so i did a cheap rebuild (i know it isn't the right way but it was the only way)..

now fast forward to today.. after pushing the car outside i finally tried to start the car, and all it did was sputter out the carb.. so i figured ok that means it 180 off, so i flip it around, set top dead at 1 and the distributer fell to 6 (which i think i read it should for how the cam is (see below) now it still wont start unless i turn the distributer as far as i can get it clockwise and then it sounds real bad and spits gas out the carb..

now when i put the cam in i read on here to line up the cam and crank at 12 and 6. and i think that is where i read for the distributer to point at 6 (i forget).. but when i do this and have the distributer point at 6, should i have top dead at 1 or number 6, when i tried it a lil bit ago i had it at one..

finally, i know that when you put a new cam in n everything, your supposed to start it and run at 2500 for a while right after it starts.. well since it didn't start and i had to go to work i had to push the car back in.. well that turned into a debacle as i had to push it up a hill back in the garage. which wasn't happening.. SO i had to start it, keep it running, and keep pretty much dropping the clutch till it would stall on me...

so how much damage would this have done to my new cam n everything?

and does anyone have any suggestions for me to try this evening after i get off work to get this thing started tomorrow.??

izcain

my question is what were you were talking about having the dis. pointer lined at #6? It should be pointed right at the number one cylinder with the #1 cyl. @ TDC. My theory would be you have it a tooth off which is easy to do.


As far as the cam goes you will probably be ok but that really isn't good for it to do right off the bat. Hopefully you put liberal amounts of cam lube on it so it will have some cushion!

Dracul

yeah i put a ton of lube on it, and i was talkin to out parts pro at work and like you said he told me i was a tooth off, i guess i mis-interpreted what i read, he told me to just hold the distributer where i want it after i have it at top dead then bump the starter till it drops in.. it just kinda worried me, cuase it sounded real diesel ish, and i figured that had to be bad with a new cam...

AtomicTruck

the cam will be OK. However, you don't want to run it any more like that.

If you have ANY doubt about lining up the crank and cam then do the following. Pull the timing cover off and make sure the cam and the crank line up exactly, cam at 6, crank at 12. There should be two marks on the gears to help with this. Don't worry about the distributor yet. Put the cover and other parts back on.

Pull the rocker arm cover off so you can see the number 1 cylinder rocker arms. Pull all the spark plugs out so you can rotate the crank by hand. Rotate the crank untill you see the exhaust valve close. You will also see the intake valve opening at the same time. Keep rotating until the intake valve is completely closed. Now keep going until the TDC mark on the balancer is lined up with the pointer. This is Top Dead Center (TDC).

Pull the cap off the distributor and see where the rotor is pointing. It should be pointing right at the #1 post on the cap. You really can't see 10 degrees of advance by looking at the rotor. Just make the rotor point as close to the #1 post as possible. You can do this by pulling and reinstalling the distributor or you can redo the plug wires (as long as the rotor is pointing directly at a post).

I had another thought. Are you sure you sure the plug wire placement on the dist. cap matches the firing order.

Make sure you set the proper timing advance before you do the 20 to 30 minute cam break in!

Dracul

what do you mean by redo the plug wires, are you sayin that if i wanted to i could abandon the traditional wire config on the cap and just set it how i wanted it as long as i shifted everything evenly so that wherever the rotor point was my #1 wire?

izcain

Yep I believe thats exactly what he's saying although thats not a very good way to do things since you will get mixed up later on down the road and forget that you did that probably.

Dracul

yeah i didn't do that.. i finally played with it long enough that i got it pointed at 1.

i'm still havin issues with it, like it'l start, but doesn't sound right, and seems like its spitting a little gas outta the carb, and when i shut it off i get smoke out of the carb.. i thought it was the plugs cause i had bosch +4's in there and they were black so i took them and exchanged them for accel header plugs, and i just started it a few minutes ago and it did the same thing, and when i gave it some gas it bogged and started to die.

i dunno what to do..

izcain

You still have timing off. Or it is possible that you might have the valves adjusted to tightly. If you adjust them to tight then it will not allow them to close properly. Just my

AtomicTruck

You'll get it figured out.

Does it idle? Is it firing on all 8 and just running rough?

If air (fuel) is being pushed out the top of the carb then your valves aren't closing all the way. start with what izcain said. Check to make sure the valves are adjusted properly. This problem may also be caused by not lining up the timing gears properly (the crank is in the up stroke but the intake valves aren't closed yet.) Are you sure you got the timing chain on properly?

For a very brief moment the intake valve and the exhaust valve are open at the same time (on most cams). If you accidentally advanced the cam too far then this event will occur while there is still considerable pressure from the exhaust stroke. This will force exhaust gas out the carb and spit new fuel from the carb with it. This problem would also occur even if there is no overlap on the cam. This is one of the reasons why lining up the timing gears is important.

Other things can spit out of the carb too. Check the firing order and plug wire placement.

I know it is a pain in the rear to pull everything off to check this but if you have any doubt or the problem persists, you'll have to do it. Start with the easy stuff first.

jocool

I would make sure that the firing order valve adjustment and ignition timing is right like these guys are telling you however I am also wondering what kind of timing chain set you installed. Some of the double roller sets come with three markings on them a triangle, a square, and a circle. This is so you can set the valve timing 4 degrees advanced, retarded, or straight up. You must line the same markings up between the cam and crank. This is very easy to get mixed up and i've seen it happen a few times.

Dracul

yeah, i set it to 4 degrees advanced, cause i read it would give more torque.. i'm workin on adjusting the valves tomorrow, and if that doesn't do it, i might try to drop the distributor in again.

today i started it after a real quick rocker check (some where real loose) i got it to start but only giving it gas and if i didn't it wouldn't idle, still didn't sound right either.

jocool

Just to be perfectly clear the crank sprocket and the cam sprocket both have 3 marks each on them so you must line up the same identical marks on both. This is where it confuses some people as it is very easy to overlook. If you are sure you did this right then thats good news and it must be ignition timing. Good Luck

Dracul

i think you may have found my problem.. i saw the 3 marks on the bottom gear, but i didn't see more than one mark on the top, so chances are i have it screwed up there... i guess tomorrow i'll be ripping everything back off and double checking..

any idea how can i get the timing cover off without disturbing the oil pan?

jocool

The only way to do it proper is to drop the oil pan. If this is an aftermarket cam then some of these come ground 4 degrees advanced. Just thought I would mention it. Also don't forget to make sure you are at top dead center when adjusting you timing set.

jocool

It has been awhile since I installed that kind of timing chain. Earlier I gave you wrong information. Sorry about that. There is only one mark,way to install the camshaft sprocket. However I believe that on the crankshaft sprocket there are three keyways one resembles a circle, square, and triangle, and you must use the proper keyway along with the proper mark on the crank sprocket. If you have directions just recheck them, but I think if you did it this way then you did it right. Again sorry about the poor info.

Dracul

no problem, i figured it out last night, and found the mark on the camshaft gear and i was like 90 degrees of the crank off.. so i'm actually suprised i got it to start at all.. thanks for all the help

jocool

I'm glad you figured it out.

izcain

Thats good to hear that you have figured out the problem. I always feel better after I have discovered the problem and fixed it. If I can't find the problem it will bug me to no end. Good luck !