12SecondTA

When i get my motor apart for a rering, i will need a new set of rings, duh...

i used hastings rings prevously, and after 3-4k miles, blowby out the ***... due to rich idle, and high rpm pinging from running lean, ended up finding out i had a couple air bleed circuits blocked... so now i am going to be reringing....

Should i use a set of total seal rings? or just a good quality set of file fits?

i am thinking the total seal rings are fragile with the 2 part ring... While a set of file fits, can get seal good, and be strong.

eventually i will be using nitrous, and eventually small amount of boost...

The engine builder friend wants me to use total seals, but i havn't heard much from people as far as longevety goes with these rings... He seems stuck on how their the best rings ever...

what do you guys use?

ml258-89iroc

i installed the total seal gapless in mine, i think it was 5 or 6 rings total per piston. the shop that machined my block recommended them. i am just breaking my engine in now. so far so good but they are a pain in the *** to install.

12SecondTA

let me know man...

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

gapless are just huge-ley expensive.
You can "file fit" any ring style, you don't have to pay extra to buy "file fit". If you're planning on nitrous/blower in the future, normal rings, then file the gaps a bit wider, and you're set.

12SecondTA

wel the point being, i have 4.040 bores... do i buy 60 over and file them down? there is no 50 over... so... kinda stuck with 45over file fits...

Apeiron

There are lots of 4.040 rings. Try Sealed Power E251K40.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

?
Yea, why not just buy some moly coated .040" rings, and file fit them. They don't have to say "file fit" in order for you to file fit them.
File fits are made with like 0 gap, so you can file them to a VERY SMALL gap. Which I think is kinda dumb.

"normal" rings are usually ready to go with say a .018" gap, or .0045" per inch of bore diameter, something in that range. So with a blown app, you want it wider, say .023", you just file 'em a bit, throw in the bore, check, pull out, file, etc. Cheaper than buying "file fit".

Unless i'm missing something here? But yea, all of the real big names should make .040" gap rings, it's just not as popular as the .030 and .060" sizes.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

A few of us here locally have used them in our buildups. Mine is really going through the oil and is the main reason I'm building up a new motor with standard file fit rings to replace the motor in the car. The other car is also burning oil but not quite as bad as mine but he also will rebuild it.

Dyno Don used them in his car with no problems. On another forum that is used by quite a few of the top engine builders in the country they say not to use them. Go with the file fit rings. If need be I can probably link that discussion in the other web site.

12SecondTA

any other opinions out there?

Guest

I'm using them, no problems so far with oil use or anything. I filed them because of future plans and it was no big deal, about as easy as the file fit Speed Pro rings I used before. I've heard stories both ways on them, what I can say is that it seems the cylinder cross hatch is important to proper break in. IIRC they also said to install them dry (a little unusual), so I did... and I'm not having issues.

Make sure you get the right oversize. Running .060 rings on a .040 bore is like running .060 pistons in a .040 bore... well, not exactly but its not a good idea.

12SecondTA

i'm almost tempted to stay away from from the "total seal" rings now... numerous "bad oil consuption" people, and few "their great" people...

i want the most power i can get while it stays NA, but with these flimzy rings, i am afraid they dont have long enough life span for me...

i'm gonna do a bit more research

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Here is a thread on the subject on another board. Total Seal gapless 2nd ring question :: Speed Talk - Auto Racing Forum

The replys are by some of the top engine builders in the country. They know how to build motors. Also be sure to read the whole thing. Notice the debate among the top engine builders and the differences of opinion. One poster worked for Federal Mogul and had intensive testing done.

My opinion is you are taking a chance using the Total Seal rings. Also most agreed there was no horsepower to be gained over standard file fit rings. So in my mind there is no reason to take a chance.

Guest

And I'm running very much non stock gaps.

Interesting reading. We'll have to see how these hold up in the future.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

hey max, which rings are you using? I wasn't sure what you were referring to when you first said "i'm using them"
and what gap pray tell? Just curious, want to see what people have been doing as far as top/2nd ring gap. I could never get a straight answer WRT which should be larger.

12SecondTA

i bought perfect circle rings earlier today.... got file fits locally at a speed shop for $68.... 4.045 bore size... i also bought a ring filer for $15... love those guys over there, always nice to me...

Guest

Err...
Well there's more gap on the 2nd than 1st. I used to be concerned about ring end gap but right now I'm thinking its not an issue, other things are.