Samurai_Of_Dawn

Today I went to start up the car. Took 2 cranks before it fired it. I let it warm for a few minutes then shut it off. After that, I waited a minute later and tried starting it again. It cranks, but it wont fire. I don't know if it's not getting any gas (everything seems to work just fine), or if it's electrical. Hopefully I can get some replies on this, as I'm stumped on what it could be.

Note: the car does have a new battery, as it's not even a month old.

rezinn

When it does this, spray some gas or starting fluid into the throttle body, then try to start it. If it starts, it's a fuel problem.

Samurai_Of_Dawn

I haven't got around to doing that, but I'm looking to take it in the shop on mon.

The car also makes a loud squeal, as if a belt is loose. It never made that noise until I got my injectors changed. The altinator belt is on pretty good (not loose as all), and when I turn the steering wheel left or right, it seems to quit.

I wanna make another note of what happened tonight. I washed the car tonight, and washed the engine bay as well (covering the altinator with a bag like I've done before a wash). It took 2 cranks before it started up. I decide to go around the block, then the car feels like "chugging" as if it wants to die. I give it a little more gas and get to the light before the car DOES die. I turn everything off and crank it. 3 cranks before it starts then I'm on my way home. On my way, it starts to do the same thing, so I give it more gas (getting the car up to at least 50 mph). I get to another light and it wants to die. Instead of having the car die, I hold the brake down firm and rev the car some to keep it alive. The light turns green, and I gun it home so I'm not stranded. As soon as I pull into the driveway, the car chugs a lil more then dies.

Like I said, I haven't tried the method yet, but does anyone else know of any guesses/answers of what is probably happeneing to the car?

astrosurfer

how recent was the fuel filter changed.
From what you describe, I'm gunning for some sort of fuel system issue.
Have you filled up at any irregular gas stations of late?
Does anyone else drive the car? Could they have filled up somewhere else?

Just my $0.02 of guesswork.

Stekman

Am I following the timeline correct in the fact that all the problems started occuring AFTER you hosed down the engine bay? If so, sounds as if you hosed down the distributor cap, too. Pull out the WD-40, remove the plug wires, and spray with the 40.

astrosurfer

The first post of the problem was 1 day prior to hosing the engine bay. Is what I get from it.
I agree with 40ing the lot too. Nothing can be hurt by doing this. If anything will give preventative measures.

Samurai_Of_Dawn

Astrosurfer:
Awhile back I had the fuel filter checked out (I had a problem I thought might of been related to this), and my mechanic told me it checked out good. I don't recall on when how new the fuel filter is, as I bought the car in 08 of Oct. As for irregular gas, I just fill up on 87 at the gas station down the block, as I've never had a problem with them before. I'm the only driver of the car that I know of.


Stekman:
Here's the correct timeline (warning, very detailed and LONG). I got my injectors swapped out a good week and a half ago, going from 19 to 21 lbs. The next night, I started driving about, driving for I would say a good hour, maybe close to two. I was driving, and the car had a slight chug, but I didn't pay much attention to it, as I kept going, and it seemed to be driving fine (or so that's what I was thinking). It did it again, but wasn't that noticable. I got home and parked the car.

A few days pass by, and I decide to paint some of the trim. I do that in about 2 days work and install everything on the 3rd day.

Friday comes by, and I decide to start the car (I had the car not start on me before because the battery was either bad or couldn't hold a charge? whatever the case, I got a new battery). The car cranked, but nothing. I did it again, and it fired up. I let it warm for a few minutes. Turn the car off, but I decide to try to try and start it up again to see if something is up (intuition is weird). I try, and it cranks, no start. I do this a few more times, and the last try or so, even pumped the pedal twice. Nothing, just crank.

Later on that night, I had a feeling the car would start up (weird, I know). I hop in, put the key in the ignition and turn. Crank. Try it again, It starts! I start pulling out of the driveway, and the car just kinda... dies. I start it up, having it start with the 2nd crank. I decide to go around the block since the car wasn't driven in almost a week. It seemed to drive just fine for the time being. I get home and park the car.

The next day (last Sat), I decide to take the car to the car wash (so automated ones, just a do it yourself kind). I did this because maybe this would of taken car of the squeal from the belt, as it may have had antifreeze on it from the injectors change.) I wash the car and under the hood (covered the altinator with a bag). I used some engine cleaner on it and rinsed after.

I hopped in the car and try to start it up. Just crank. Did it again, and it fires up, hearing the belt squeal (bleh guess that didn't fix the problem). I drive it around the block (car wash it bout 3-4 decently long blocks away from home). I start driving, heading toward the first stoplight on the way. I signal to the right and turn. I proceed to the next stoplight, then the car starts chuggin and dies on me (now I'm pretty much coasting to the light with the engine off, before breaking). I crank 3 times, and it fires up. I signal to the right again, and start heading back to the house. Along the way, the car starts chugging again, and I'm like "oh hell no, not this again," so I give it more gas, keeping the car alive, yet it still has the nasty chug to it. I get to my 2nd to last light (I was hoping for green, but I got red), and come to a stop. The car starts chugging again and wants to die on me. I can't run the light, so I mash on the brake and rev the car up, keeping it alive till the light turned green.

I start driving, this time in more of a hurry to get home instead of being stranded, I give the car more gas than usual (going bout 50 mph), still having the car doing the chug thing. I get to the last light, look both ways before turning and start back on the street to my house. I pull up in the driveway, and park it (it more like parked itself, as it died on me....)

That concludes the long story timeline, and most/all the details are there that I can recall of.

Random Note: since the change of the injectors, the car made a long squeal. It would do that for a period of time then stop, but something else I noticed was when I would turn the steering wheel either left or right, it would subside quicker. I asked friend about the stuff that's been happening, and he said it could of been the MSD. If it's loose, it could make the car run like crud as well. Same thing for a fuel leak, though when it was checked, there appeared to be no leaks at all.

More thoughts and opinions are welcomed since I still haven't fixed the problem

Samurai_Of_Dawn

Anyone else? I would really like to get more oppinions on this subject

astrosurfer

I'm still gunning for a fuel system malfunction.
Any way you can do a fuel pressure check?
If the car just won't start on crank. Try depressing the schrader (spelling) valve with your finger. This should be found on the fuel rail. You should spurt fuel if there's any pressure. If you have good pressure (which will be apparent enough if you have) then I guess I'm wrong about the fuel malfunction. But if there's little pressure then the system needs to be checked further.

I'm curious if perhaps the larger injectors need a larger fuel delivery for correct function, but that's really just a guess as I'm not clued up in that dept at all.
Now I read again and I don't see the larger injectors mentioned...may be thinking of another thread. Just thinking how I can help.

Samurai_Of_Dawn

Well if this helps any, here's what I have (I'll post specs of the engine in a few).

I'm running a stock ECM for the car (the car originally had the 305 but got swapped for a 350). ECM's didn't change. Could it be that it needs a tune? I have a ECM for a 350, but the prom I have makes it run like total chit.


Note: Here's all the specs for the engine I have.

Link: http://www.jegs.com/i/GM+Performance...99529/10002/-1

Information:

This 350 is GM Performance Parts' value-leading crate engine, with 290 horsepower @ 5100 RPM, and 326 ft/lbs of torque @ 3750 RPM on 87 octane fuel. Its power will provide great durability with a 4-bolt mains, PM steel rods, and strong cast aluminum pistons. The camshaft has .450" intake and .460" exhaust lift with hydraulic flat tappets. The cast iron cylinder heads have 1.94" intake and 1.50" exhaust valves with 76 cc combustion chamber. The heads have the conventional 12-bolt intake manifold attaching design used from 1955 through late 1980. This 350 engine is not intended for marine use, and should be used in 1979 or earlier pre-emissions street vehicles or any off-road usage.

Specifications
Horsepower: 290 @ 5100 RPM
Torque: 326 ft/lbs @ 3750 RPM
Max Rec. RPM: 5100 RPM
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Heads: Cast Iron 76 cc
Camshaft Lift: Flat Tappet Duration @ .050" (222°Int/222° Exh)
Lifters: Flat Tappet
Connecting Rods: Powdered Metal
Block: 4-bolt main
Pistons & Pins: Aluminum
Crankshaft: Cast Iron Nodular, 3.480" Stroke
Rocker Arm: 1.5
Ignition Timing: 34° BTDC total advance
Fuel: 87 octane

Engine Components Package #809-12499529K3
Includes GM Goodwrench engine and the following products to make your new engine run!
Edelbrock Performer intake manifold
Edelbrock Performer 600cfm carb
Mr. Gasket intake gaskets
ARP intake bolts
Proform chrome valve covers, chrome wing nuts, chrome dipstick
Jegs HEI distributor
Jegs HEI coil
GM recommends the use of an melonized distributor gear (270-11951-1)


The only thing I've done thus far was replace my stock 19lb injectors with 21lb. Everything is stock, including the ECM that's on the car right now (stock 305 ECM with a 350. I DO have the ECM for the 350 though).

Mrgref92

Could it be the timing isn't right on the car?

Stekman

The bottom line is pretty simple. Compression, air, fuel, and spark is what's required for an engine to run. It's turning over, so you're getting the first 2. Figure out which you aren't getting when it's not starting. Check fuel pressure at no-start, and check to see if you're getting spark.

Samurai_Of_Dawn

Mrgref92: The timing seem's pretty normal. My mechanic told me the timing was good, as I asked about that awhile back re another problem.

Stekman: That is a good point. I'll have it checked this friday. So compression and air is good so far in my case. What kind of fuel pressure # am I looking for?

Stekman

42ish, +/- a few PSI. Hook up to the shrader valve and hit the key. On position, don't crank it. Check the PSI of the prime sequence first. Once verified, then crank it. Basically, you're watching the pressure as it's acting up. If the pressure is fine while it's running rough/not starting/etc, then look at spark.

Mrgref92

Maybe somthing is blocking the fuel from going to the engine

draco

I had the same problem recently, turned out that the factory rivets on the coil were corroded and not allowing it to ground properly. Go to you local parts store and buy a "Spark Plug Tester" which can display the voltage and amperage of the spark. Mine was a blue spark, but still weak. I replaced the rivets with new bolts and straps and away she went. Hope this helps...