oxrabidus

an l69 305 with stock 305 vortec heads an edelbrock rpm arigap a holley 600 double pumper and a mild cam, something around 215/220@.05 with?

I have a non world class t5 and am looking to get more horsepower, but not bring the torque up too much to blow the trans, I saw a 305 build that carcraft did a while ago and a cam swap on an lg4 gave more horsepower than torque gain with vortec heads and intake...

if i can get 220hp for right now without fear of blowing the transmission thats cool.. just looking for suggestions, because i have the vortec heads and would like to use them, but want to make sure i wont kill it...

thank you

stroker_SS

They use l31 350 vortecs in that article. Not the 305 vortecs. Stock l69 heads would suffice with a lil' work.

So long as you take it easy on the trans(no power shifting) it should last you a good long while.

A member on this board (jamesc) has the gmpp deluxe 350 330hp and a non-wc t5 and he hasn't blown it yet.

oxrabidus

really now? i have heard so many horror stories about them... but the 305 vortecs are the same 350 vortecs but with smaller (1.84) intake valves and 58cc chambers they flow the same up to .5" lift.
but im feelin a little better now about cammin it and doing soe basic stuff...
i dont power shift, it just doesnt seem right to me... the clutch is there for a reason, if they dont like it they should drive an auto...
thanks for the info!

Rolling Thunder

Technically probably not. I believe the non world class t-5s were only rated for 275 ftlbs of torque and the factory carbed 305s put out like what around 250? cant remember off hand. TPI 305 put out like 270 tq and you couldnt get a 5 speed with that motor until the world class 5 speed came out. So with those mods I think you would exceed the factory spec for what that trans was designed to take. That being said thing really arnt that simple. That 275 tq is a manufacture spec but how much force is actually exerted on the trans is a complicated question with many factors effecting it. Just for discussion when would you apply 275 tq to a trans? If you think of a torque wrench you can only apply large amounts of torque when the bolt is starting to meet resistance as it starts to tighten. When the bolt spins your not applying much torque on the bolt because the bolt is just spinning. Just like in that situation if your motor produced 330 tq at 4000 RMPs. If your at 4000 RPM your probably moving and because your moving the wheels are turning which means your not necessarily applying 330 tq to the trans. Or in the same example say your tires will break loose at 200 ftlbs of torque you could never apply the full 330 ftlbs to the trans because the wheels would break loose and spin first. How much is really dependent on things like vehicle weight tire size gear ratio stuff like that. On the other hand your stock motor could break that trans even though you dont exceed the spec if you revved it up and dumped the clutch the shock could exceed that 275 ftlb rating especially if your running slicks. Even if you did exceed the 275 ftlb rating thats not the point where the trans has what is called a catastrophic failure where you blow out gears through the case you just enter a point where the trans is wearing at a higher rate than whats considered normal wear and tear AKA getting damaged. The more you exceed that spec by the greater the wear beyond what is considered normal right on up to a instantaneous catastrophic failure if you exceed it by enough. This is why you see people take there factory small block Chevy (which are rated for up to 5.5k for the most part) up to 6 or 7 k for short periods of time and claim its ok because their motor didn't blow up. What they don't know is the motor just get worn at a rate thats considered excessive (also known as damaging it shortening the motors life significantly concidering how long it was at those RPMs). So as you can see its really a complicated subject and to be safe leave it stock and youll be fine mod it and you risk damaging it. However if you were nice to the car and didnt race it with drag slicks basically just not beat the crap out of it you'd probably be fine. lol sorry for the long post but its a complicated question lol.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I don't think its the 220 hp that will kill your T5, rather than the clutch drops and power shifts. Steady state WOT pulls won't kill a T5. Shock and trauma via drag radials, burnouts and hard launches will kill it. This is assuming you hit your power goal. Power in the 400 ft/lb range can shred a T5 in no time.

oxrabidus

well i wont be near 400ft/lbs any tiume soon, i just want to beef it up a bit and not worry about breaking it, the car will be my daily driver, and maybe the occasional trip to the track, so i wont be doing any power shifting, and i dont normally do very high clutch drops off the line, nor will i be using slicks, just some decent drag radials, and a nice suspension will be my first things to do, eventually a stronger trans to better handle the power, but yeah... just for now, a cam, the vortec heads that i have and a matching intake is what i had in mind...

Rolling Thunder

Well again with those mods you will be exceeding the factory spec and although under nice normal driving circumstances you'd probably be just fine but with drag radials fairly hard launches from time to time and some track time be prepared to replace the trans. Although it may very well last till you decide to put in a stronger trans I would not expect or count on it to especially if you dont have plans to replace it in the near future. Again I dont believe your have exceeded the spec to the point of a catastrophic failure but concidering you will be exceeding the maximum spec and driving alittle enthusiastically it will have a shortened life span. That in combination with the fact that its not exactly a new trans and is already probably pretty well worn in who really knows how much life its got left in it to begin with even before considering the fact it will now be exceeding the max torque spec? So if you decide to do the mods, I would be prepared to replace the trans and hope that that day doesn't come and if you cant accept the possibility that the trans could give out as result then just dont do the mods. Its better to be at least prepared for the possibility than to just hope it will be fine leave yourself with out a plan in the event it does give way and leave u without a car. Being prepared can help keep down time to a minimum but again if its that critical that you cannot tolerate being without a car again probably not a good idea to do the mods.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

No, I haven't and the motor/trans has been in place for several years now. I don't expect to ever experience a problem because I don't drive the car particularly hard. Widing it out in third and fourth is cool though.

JamesC

oxrabidus

you ever launch hard? I just bought the car, it need a vacuum advance distributor, the guy put on and edelbrock carb and left the regular distributor on, but it started and sounded nice, no noises or anything, just wouldnt advance the timing to run.
I think its a nice upgrade from my 2.8l that i had.
im just gonna do an exhaust, with an intake and get me a holley 600cfm. if that gets me to 220hp ill be happy for now.

rjmcgee

I've been running a NWC T5 with 300 rwhp for several years now. It's my opinion that remounting the torque arm to the crossmember helps alot. This video shows a 4000 rpm clutch dump on slicks. Only problem in 6 years was a broken shift fork. Maybe I'm just lucky.

//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Oug24NFBc

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

I wouldnt even attempt it with a WC unless it was fresh IMO, ive talked to tranny shops, my instructors at school and even a retired GM engineer who had a large role in our cars testing, and they all say its possible, but not smart.

The issue is if you dump all the power into the tranny, and connect that to the ground with good traction you can say goodbye to your trans. Just because people say "i did it" doesnt mean you'll have the same results you have to take into consideration that you dont know the exact history of your trans, IE who had it, how they treated it etc, its your car and i say if you believe you can make it work go for it, but it might be good to have a couple grand set aside for that big what if

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Generally the answer to the question of whether a T5 will hold up to anything is "no".

If you drive it carefully it will be fine. But no power-shifting. GM cut a lot of corners with the T5 and the case is weak and flexes... causes gears to go out of alignment and chew each other up.

stroker_SS

I didn't think gm designed the t5. And if they did I don't think that ford was very happy about using a gm designed trans in there venerable fox body mustang.

Rolling Thunder

No your right GM most likely did not design the transmission more likely what they did was send B&W the specs for what they needed and they designed something to meet those specs. However it is interesting to note when the transmissions were built it was noted that the t-5s built for mustangs held up a bit better then the ones used for chevys and when the world class t-5 came out the new design was in part an adaptation to make the chevy one more like the ford unit for added durability.

rjmcgee

Did Ford hook a torque arm to the back of their weak cased T5?

You ditch the torque arm and you have a decent trans for dirt cheap.
Good ratio's too.

oxrabidus

i think they did hook it to the transmission... the cases are differentd between ford an gm t5s... maybe thats the difference that makes them more sturdy... ford also made a gearset for them that raised the max torque rating to 330ft/lbs or something like that, you can getthm cheap and they will fit a gm t5 and work with the input shaft and everything... only problem is they only work for the WC t5s... but it has become obvious that the case is the biggest weakness and not the gears themselves?
i heard that g force makes stronger cases for t5s...

taonindo

been using non wc t5s for years...they usually last about a year for me. not quite as long as a clutch pack, but hey they are cheap and easy to come by

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

As has been mentioned, GM got them from Borg-Warner. But Ford's T5 was stronger because they had higher standards for it. GM, for whatever reason, cut costs on theirs and that lead to a 5-speed that cant handle the L98.

Make no mistake, GM is the one to blame for how weak the T5 is. If they wanted they could have built it much stronger. Ford T5's hold up to some crazy stuff that GM T5's have nightmares about.

CamKid1992

i am using a stock t5 with a hurst short throw and pushing about 310 to the crank and have not had any problems unless im power shifting and its only going into 2nd

oxrabidus

you think that adding a steel retainer plate, and the other basic upgrades will help keep it together better?
or should just get a ford trans with a bellhousing adapter?

rjmcgee

If you want to spend money there I would suggest relocating the torque arm to the crossmember first. Also a good shifter is highly recomended, one with positive stops, overshifting is bad

I don't think you can use the Ford trans, it's set up to run straight up instead of tilted like our cars. Nothing would be in the right place.

oxrabidus

i intend to. mcleod makes a bellhousing to adapt anything to anything, and i bellieve they make a bellhousing to adapt a ford t5 into a 82-92 camaro with the trabsmission tilted at 17 degrees like ours...
like i said i just want to make sure it will handle the few things im gonna do to the engine to make it respectable... mid 14s you know...
a corossmember mounted torque arm is on my very long list of future mods when i start my final build so i will get one now then...