Jim Berry

As listed, the engine will not crank. I can run it on starter fluid when I crank it from a trigger attached to the starter. I try to start it from the key ignition, I get the console lights at the run postion, but it will not crank at the start position. The temp gauge pegs out but nothing happens.

So far I have:

Replaced the ignition module. No change.

Replaced the steering column start linkage and column dimmer switch while I was there. No change.

Replaced the Neutral Safety switch on the shifter. No change.

The injectors will drop gas at the initial trigger crank and at the end of the engine shut down, but that is it. The car has a clifford alarm, but I haven't had it hooked up on the battery for over 4 years.

Any ideas?

Jim Berry

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

sounds like the VATS system
http://sethirdgen.org/vats.htm

none of the stuff you replaced has anything to do with it only droping gas for the 1st and last second of the crank ...... but atleast you got some new parts

Jim Berry

I even used another key that I have for the car and get the same result. Turn the key to "start" and get nothing. I don't even see the VATS light illuminate. Is it possible that VATS is not on this car? Why would the PO have a clifford alarm installed with VATS present? With that said, I will check for the wires and resistance in a few days.

Jim Berry

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

it could be the vats itself not the key, and the security bulb is blown or lose

seem like vats to me

i have vats and a viper alarm, i know my alarm will kill the starter

Jim Berry

I will give a look this Sunday. Too much work and getting home to late to check. I even tried another ECM and still same results.

Jim Berry

Jim Berry

Checked the resistance of both keys today. They show .870 to .871. Spent too much time on the GTA today to look for the VATS wires, but I will look tomorrow.

Thanks for the help so far.

Jim Berry.

Motopsyco

since you said the car had an alarm it pobably is vats acting up, have you tryed removing the alarm completely, it porobably has a box or somrthing wired into the ecm or vats module to bypass the factory vats so it will work with an alarm, its a thought, or could just be tied into it and something came loose or didnt agree with it. I had been looking into just about everything on vats for the last couple months due to issues with my car not starting. when you turn your ignition on at first when all the lights light up do you see the secutity light at all? i think its supposed to light up with the others showing its working, if not it could be bad bulb. I could be wrong because mine showes up while turning the ignition for about a second and again if it try to crank the car, so I'm not sure on when its supposed to light up, as that I havent figured for sure whats going on with mine. all I know is everyone says mines not a vats issue.

Jim Berry

The alarm is a clifford set. It has two pigtails into a main flask size box. If I remove theses two pigtails, I do not think they will plug into each other. Lots of wires go different directions on this. Not something I want to tackle. I would probably tow it to an alarm shop to remove it.

Jim Berry

Jim Berry

Used the VATS guide that is on this site. I checked the VATS light on the instrument panel. Light is good as I switched it with the "brake" light and it lights up.

When I attempt to start the car, everything lights up once with the exception of the VATS light. I don't get any flashing VATS light at all. I do still get the code 53 on the computer. Everything is normal with the exception of the temp gauge needle pegging out at 260 when attempting to start.

So far I have replaced the following: Starter, steering column starter switch, light switch, ignition module, neutral switch, battery, ECM, and finally today the oil pressure switch. Whats left? Cigarette lighter and right rear tire?

The VATS guide says to look for white wires wrapped in either a black or orange sleeve which travels up the steering column to the ignition switch. Can't find any of that. Most wires travel up a translucent sleeve up the steering column. I have a VATS fuse and a spot on the instrument panel that doesn't illuminate.

Again, the car has a Clifford alarm that has been disconnected for 4 years but still wired in. I connect it to the battery and all appears to work as it should. I can start the engine by a remote starter switch, but cannot get fuel to run continually. Starter fluid will keep it going as long as I am spraying it. Not condusive to driving down the highway. I get one squirt from the injectors at start up and one just before it dies.

So far I am completely befuddled. I am just short of rolling it out of the garage and setting it on fire. A funeral pyre. A fitting end for a "Firebird".

Jim Berry

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

ok my security light comes on for a few seconds then goes off

if i put tape over my chip the light dont come on and i get no starter

i will check my dealer service manual tonight or this weekend whenever i go back home...... see what it says about one pulse of the injectors


wait, you know i think it may be the fuses

labeled INJ1 and INJ2...... i think this is what mine did when i pulled the fuses, but cant remember

Jim Berry

Located those fuses. Still good. Still no start.

Jim Berry

Soooo....I'm chillin' at home on a weeks leave. Got the GTA running, Trans Am is running, and still working the '91 issue. So I get bored and start looking for wires again. I find two white wires wrapped in an orange cover, but tagged with an warning label that attaches it to the airbag lines. I break out the volt meter and I get no continuaty (sp) on the line. Could it be the mysterious broken wire on the lock cylinder that I am looking for? See for yourself.

Jim Berry

I went to O'reillys and purchased a new lock cylinder. Came with a key blank but no keys with a chip. You have to take the blank to the dealership. Sooo...I fixed the wires on the current lock cyl and fed everything back down the steering column with two newer and more protected wires. Checked the resistance at the bottom of the column and I still get .871 on the key, so all is well on that end. However, no start but now the security light flashes on for about 2 seconds. I will tackle a little more tomorrow.

Jim Berry

Jim Berry

Put everything back together and still have the same resistance at the column. Now when I turn the key, I hear a clicking sound in the left front kick panel. It appears to be a start relay. I will stop by the dealership tomorrow and see if I can track it down.

Jim Berry.

Jim Berry

Hey, I'm back. A little Bronchitis couldn't keep me down. Anyway, located the relay in the kick panel. VATS relay according to the dealership parts guy. (Who by the way has been able to find anything that I need for the 3rd gens.) I replace the relay and "viola" she starts. What are the odds that the problem was the ignition key and the relay? at the same time?

Jim Berry.

actarnoff

iTrader: (1)

I am having the same exact problem, except that I replaced the lock cylinder 2 months ago. So all it was is the small relay mounted next to the module?

Jim Berry

Well, could be. But also make sure that your car is in park or in neutral and try again. The VATS relay in the kick panel is also available at Oreilly for about 16 dollars.

Jim Berry

Jim Berry

So after moving it out into the driveway behind my brothers F150 in my driveway. It will not start for about a month. Again.
I had taken the center consol out and had completely torn down the rest trying to figure out if it is the NSS. I pull it off, look at it and move it into various positions while trying to start the engine. The "securiity" light comes on again.
I put the console back to gether again and bingo it starts. Now the fuel pump won't shut down unless I pull the hot lead on the battery. WTF?

Jim.