19f0rmula88

After doing recent mods to my car, ac delete, 160* thermostat, all emissions delete, plugs routine maintenence plugs and oil with a water temp sensor my car doesnt want to start. What is causing this ? I fooled with the timing cant get anything retarded or advanced sometimes shell start and idle rough as heck at 200 rpm then stall and spit blue smoke through tbi and somethings it will start and only stay running when i keep,my foot on gas pedal. And then when it starts i keep getting exhaust backfiring

19f0rmula88

Well thats not really mods but i also meant i put a new water temp sensor in

camaronewbie

1) Get rid of the 160 stat and get a 180 - 160 is way too low!

2) did you change plug wires, cap, rotor? If so, sounds like you messed up the firing order.

19f0rmula88

Is it? Dang it and my water outlet keeps leaking how can i fix that?

I did plugs one by one so i wont lose firing order. Is it possible it jumped timing? Thats what ny dad keeps saying but idk what that means honestly.

torque_is_good

you crossed a plug wire. Was the car doing this before you began? If no, then the problem was introduced by you. if your timing chain did jump, then it will continue to do that. I doubt that is the issue

For the most part, #1 cylinder on your dist cap tends to be aaround 5 o'clock when standing in front of the nose and looking at the dist. It might also be at 6 or even 7 o'clock but start at 5 and see if it runs. You only need to find #1 and then follow the order clockwise. My #1 is more around 3:30 because I was too lazy to pull out the dist and try to hit it exact. But, I'll include a diagram for the buyer when it sells


as for water outlet, do you mean the neck on the intake manifold? If so, you probably didn't scrape off all of the old gasket. GO get another gasket and some rtv. Take off the neck and scrape well as well as underneath the enck

a wee bit of rtv on the intake, a wee bit on the neck, put gasket in between, tighen and no leaks

Live and learn. Making mistakes is a good way to learn as long as we're not talking about doing 80mph on a side street and learning the costliest lesson of all.


Oh, if you loosened the dist cap and moved it without having a timing light...........shame shame shame

19f0rmula88

Thanks for the help ill go out and check now and let u know as far as distributors i never pulled it. Car ran great when i bought it. My uncle said my timing was too high and adjusted it and dver since i could never get it right :/

torque_is_good

"your timing was too high" ?

Did he mean it was advanced too much?

RandyPozdnikoff

I think Uncle may have retarded the timing too much.

19f0rmula88

he said that it was idling to high and that the timing need to be fixed. whatever it is advanced or retard it stalls when i shift into first and then when i rev it up it catches on itself i dont know how to explain it. but it doesnt rev like it use to and now i cant even get it to start.

SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP ME FIGURE THIS NONSENSE OUT?!! thanks if you do

all day i messed with it and couldnt get crap from it. my dad insists that i jumped the timing. like i said im not sure what that means or how it happens but i know that i dont feel like taking all those accessories off. its a pain to get that belt on with the smog pump gone. my serpentine piece that u put the breaker bar in is broken.

also now that i got rid of my air conditioner what do i do with all the plugs i have disconnected? i dont want to just leave them on top the intake its a but ugly just having them lay there

torque_is_good

you must find where #1 is on the distributor in the power stroke at TDC. If this is beyond you, seriously, flat bed it and get it fixed by a pro.

My son can tackle troubleshooting and repairs because I have looked over his shoulder, demonstrated things and even allowed things to occur so he could learn. If you don't have that coaching, then pay someone. If engines were easy to diagnose, and tools inexpensive, then shops wouldn't charge $85 per hour or more.

It sounds like you are in over your head at this point in your life. In a few years this will be a piece of cake as you gain experience.

19f0rmula88

well i am only 17 so the onlything i really have helping me is whoever replies to my posts on here, my chilton repair manual for firebirds, and occasionally my dad will come look at it but he only tells me what i already know.

im beginning to think i should just buy a new engine..

///DAN///

iTrader: (1)

double check your wires . Was you dist tight , if not you may have moved it while doing the some of your work . you need a timing light to set it right you will not get it right by ear it takes years of doing it to get that down right .

RagRoc

You need to contact this club and see if anyone of the third gen guys is local.
http://www.mdcamaroclub.com/
They will probably be willing to help you out.

You definitely have a timing issue that a new motor will not fix. You also may want to do a search on the net for installing a distributor in a small block chevy which will tell you how to find TDC on the number one cylinder. Once you set #1 to TDC on the compression stroke, the contact on the rotor will indicate the #1 terminal on the dist cap.
The rotor turns clockwise viewed from the top, and the SBC firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.
LH (drivers side) cylinders are odd numbers beginning at the front 1-3-5-7
RH (pass side) cylinders are even numbers beginning at the front 2-4-6-8

This isn't rocket science.......think it through......and relax.

Good Luck!

Gumby

http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/_cool3.html

19f0rmula88

thanks i guess i should put a 180 in? everybody was telling me in the store to buy the 160 so it increases performance. i guess autozone guys dont know their stuff

19f0rmula88

i understand the distributor thing but once i get number one cylinder on the power stroke how do i determine where the rotor is at under the cap? do i take off the cap and see or what? this sounds easy but im not sure how youd find the rotor position without taking off the cap.

also my electric fan isnt wired. i know this isnt the electronics board but can somebody post a diagram of how that would be wired? and where i would connect the wires to as in where is the relays and sensors? im pretty good at electronics but i want to wire it like it is from the factory not halfa$$ed or anything or possible post pictures of what it looks like

thanks for the help everybody

Gumby

yep 180 is right in that sweet spot

RandyPozdnikoff

Holy Crap. you should drive a Hyuindia or something! Jeez. TDC #1 check your balancer to varify. if you want, by hand , turn engine to 10 degrees BTC. rotor under cap should be just passing #1 terminal as it sends spark at that time. . You can fire engine NOW. dont you people read ?

KnightmareCS

iTrader: (7)

I found this video helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyUwWUNJVpA
Good luck.

Also, you should read something like this, before hand.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine1.htm

torque_is_good

I repeat what I said in post #10 and it's not an insult

You are in over your head. You need to PAY to get this done. But, you will learn from it and thus it's an investment.

In programming they call this an "unconditional loop" or simply a "loop"

I see this spinning out of control and you'll simply be chasing your tail around. If you don't have a dad or uncle with actual knowledge and capabilities, nor a friend or neighbor, then you must pay someone.

racethesunlive

I'm fairly surprised at everyone in this tread telling 19f0rmula88 to just go get it fixed at a shop when he clearly wants to learn how to fix it himself! I thought that was the point of thirdgen.org.... anyway...

I agree with ///DAN///, go pick up a timing light at your local parts store! They're cheap and I've used mine more than I ever thought I would. Also there are quite a few archived threads about setting your timing, some are really good and thats how I first learned to set timing in my Camaro.

Good luck on gettin that trans am to run 19f0rmula88!

Gumby

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ing-notes.html

torque_is_good

his electric fan doesn't work

he isn't even sure where the rotor is located.......

he needs it as a daily driver

it's called common sense when he's been advised to pay a shop.

The sad reality is that vehicles do break, especially 21 year old vehicles.

92RS_T-Top

I think he needs a diagrame, hopefully he hasnt pulled out the distributor cuz that would be pointless unless he was changing intakes, dist, or cam..

READ CLOSE.
Here is my advise to you if you have not pulled the distributor. PULL ALL THE PLUGS OFF and start from scratch, fallow the diagrame i posted below and set you timing, i fallowed one i found online and it was wrong, i just pulled all the wires back off, and fallowed the advise givein above and my car started..

FALLOW THE DIAGRAME ON THIS LINK.. THE #1 SPARK PLUG WIRE GOES ON THE CAP WHERE THE LITTLE WHITE DOT IS ON THIS DIAGRAM.. I run a MSD distributor or i could really help by uploading a photo of where it goes.

Now #1 piston is the DRIVER SIDE SPARK PLUG CLOSEST TO THE RADIATOR (front of motor aka stand by bumper look at the motor on the driver side its the closest one to you.... THE PLUG WIRE GOES TO THE CLOSEST PLUG ON THE CAP.. look at a dang wall clock non digital, it will be around 5 o clock.. 6 oclock is strait behinde you so look for the one offset to THE DRIVER SIDE of the car closest to you..

TAKE A PHOTO OF THIS DIAGRAM AND TAKE IT WITH YOU TO YOUR CAR.. IT WILL HELP U IF YOU HAVE NOT PULLED THE DISTRIBUTOR.... Simple as pie my friend.. I can set the timeing on a ford by ear and wire one up in a few seconds flat.. chevys are new to me and i just went threw this all, take you time, READ CLOSE and FALLOW THE DIAGRAM... If you wanna photo i'll send one via text message on my cell phone pointing to the #1 pin on the distributor cap.

Everyone is makeing it sound like you pulled the distributor, if u did i missed that part, if not they are making it sound way to complex.. Once again this is EASY stuff, my 8 year old nephew can run spark plug wires on a 302 ford by himself.. I'll even make a video of how to do this on a chevy if need be.

HERE IS THE LINK.. REMBER THE NUMBER ONE PIN ON THE DISTRIBUTOR IS THE ONE THAT IS WHITE ON THIS DIAGRAM NOT THE BLACK ONES... once you get the white one in its just 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2
driver side plugs on the block are 1, 3, 5, 7 (starting with the one closest to your water pump.
Passenger side is 2, 4, 6, 8 starting from the closest to your water pump.. simple..

http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bl-fo-8358.htm

Here is a more digital look, but dosnt help with placement of the plug on the distributor..

http://boxwrench.net/specs/chevy_sb.htm

92RS_T-Top

ALSO what do you mean by "all emissions delete"
Your still running the TPI set up but cut out all the 02 sensors and such? If so theres your BIG issue.

Also if you went to hacking away on wires you may have cut your fans power or ground wire. I just went threw a "wow that was stupid" move on cutting wires.. i run a carb set up so i started cutting out wires i thought where unneeded i was WRONG, i ended up cutting a few ground wires and when i went to start my car my dash lights lit up by themselfs and my fuel pump didnt kick in.. so you gotta make shure you trace wires if your cutting them out.

19f0rmula88

so yesterday i finally got time to mess with the car.

not to long ago(i cant really remember when) but i had taken apart the engine to replace the timing gear and chain(please dont scould me for this) but i may have accidently bent the timing cover a bit inward.

i couldnt get the damper off so i gave up and put it back together. the thermostat housing had a leak so i replaced it yesterday and it didnt leak anymore but now the engine wont flow coolant. what is this problem? and the timing wont balance out to run normal and its making knocking sounds

torque_is_good

are you messing with us trying to get a reaction? Seriously? Nobody but nobody keeps digging themselves into a hole the way your story is reading.

DC1992Z28

iTrader: (2)

I sat here and read all of these posts trying to come up with you answer for you ,and with everybodys advice you dont update the progress. Obviously the chilton manual does not do any good if you cannot identify the parts that it is referring to.
So whats the deal 305 tbi, no coolant flow ? no spark ? Dented timing cover,? . If you dont know how so find TDC or # 1 plug on an engine why in the world would u try to change a timing set. ?
Nobody is insulting you on your knowledge but you are digging a very big confusing hole.
There is so much knowledge on this website, we can help you we just need more to go off of.
I would take the bus for a couple weeks and try to nail this down.

19f0rmula88

i know how to find tdc im confused myself as to why everyone on here is trying to make me seem like i dont know what im doing.

the deal is right now it keeps killing the battery, no coolant flow i even replaced thermostat housing thermostat the gasket and the temp sensor still no flow it all stays in the radiator. for some reason the water pump loves to leak now. and i accidently bent the timing cover in a bit a while back and im not sure if that messed up the timing or not but now it doesnt like to stay running and i cant set the timing without it stalling and blowing smoke all in my face. it has some serious knockage though im not sure if thats from timing cause i heard that after a certain amount of timing it will make a knock

the electric fans also need to be wired up is there anyway somebody can tell me how that could be done? i have the wiring for it but im not sure where the **** is for it to be connected to as my chilton was damaged by leaky trunk

Devolont

Just a silly thought, did you put the thermostat in backwards? I do not think they flow in the reverse direction but I could be wrong. I know one day I messed with my rocker arms, being inexperienced in that area I thought I screwed it all up. Somehow, I switched two spark plug wires around on 6 and 8. The car would start, idle rough, and trying to get it to drive down the road was crazy madness. Found out I was adjusting my rocker arms correctly the entire time and it was the two spark plug wires on in the wrong spot. Get your grounds fixed, make sure your ground from your battery to your manifold and then ground to chassis is good. I know it is silly but hey, some times its the stupid things you cant check. I do not know where the fan connects to. I wouldn't mind knowing the same thing. I have mine piggy backed onto my a/c and defrost. haha. The timing cover I do not see being to big of an issue if it doesn't hit the chain. For the knock, try and get the timing checked man. We need to know if you did this yet or not. I am sure auto zone can loan you the tool.

19f0rmula88

no the thermostat was put in the same way i pulled the old one out. as far as the timing im not sure whats wrong because it was fine and i thought i had messed it up with denting the timing cover. because now it seems like retarding and advancing it does nothing besides makes it run like crap to run even worse. the grounds ill check sunday. i have a timing gun but it serves me no purpose if the car doesnt stay running once i get it started. i will check all my connections to the distributor and ignition coil because my car was perfectly fine until my uncle came and looked at it. after that the timing was weird and battery kept killing itself over night

torque_is_good

because of statements such as

After doing recent mods to my car, ac delete, 160* thermostat, all emissions delete, plugs routine maintenence plugs and oil with a water temp sensor my car doesnt want to start

my water outlet keeps leaking how can i fix that?

well i am only 17 so the onlything i really have helping me is whoever replies to my posts on here

how do i determine where the rotor is at under the cap? do i take off the cap and see or what? this sounds easy but im not sure how youd find the rotor position without taking off the cap.


Is it possible it jumped timing? Thats what ny dad keeps saying but idk what that means honestly


the thermostat housing had a leak so i replaced it yesterday and it didnt leak anymore but now the engine wont flow coolant. what is this problem?



But enough of that because nobody who has posted here has done anything but try and help you. You have spun such a story to the point that i thought you were pulling an early April fools joke.

it sounds as if you went into the engine bay all ***** nilly without the proper tools or knowledge. That may not be the case but it is how it sounds.

You have many issues the first of which is to get the engine to run for more than 20 seconds. Your timing is off. You must find TDC on cylinder #1. I could care less where it is on the distributor, you need to find out when cylinder #1 is at TDC and mark your dist cap post and then connect your plug wires accordingly. You can then try to start the car. If she won't fire, loosen the hold down nut (don't remove it, simply loosen it) enough so you can turn the distributor. Then, turn the dist 1/2 inch in one direction and again try to start the car. If it tries to catch, great, you're going in toe correct direction.

Also, you need to slow down, step back and list out every single problem that you have.

if you have the will and patience, you'll get through this and everyone here is pulling for you.

19f0rmula88

i am seriously not trying to spin no crazy stories or pull anyones leg or any of that nonsense this is very much so a problem that i am having.

i have all necessary tools and the autozone with tool loan service is in about a 10 minute walking distance so any tool i dont have i can easily rent.

i have a pretty good knowledge as far as engine goes but for some reason i suppose the other people have been making it seem like im not sure what im doing no offense to them but i know very much so what im doing

the timing issue is just something out of the blue so either saturday or sunday i will take a look into fixing this bad boy. im very sorry if it seems like im f*cking around with yous all. i appreciate the help everyones been giving me.

as far as tdc i think saturday what ill do is take the front accessories off and go for getting that damper off and replacing the timing gear and chain along with the timing cover then. before i jump the gun and go and waste a nice saturday or possibly sunday ill try the tdc with piston #1.

i will then after doing TDC, let yous all know how that turned out and then see if i should go ahead and swap the timing gear and chain which ill probably need everyones assistance with because my dad can seem to only say hey be careful when you swap that you have to make sure you line up the timing marks hes had 2 pretty decent third gens but yet he cant seem to help me fix mine. maybe someone can shed some light with the timing gear and chain and timing marks.

Devolont

Try this, did you unplug your electronic advancing when you timed it? Locate that connector, either next to the distributor or next to the a/c box on the passenger side. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't time my car then i figured that out. Call me stupid. haha