Deluca119

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, starting to get acquainted around here, seems like a tightly nit community. I passed my road test around a year ago, my parents bought me a Ford Escape with 145k miles for $4200 so I could get a job. Its great truck couldn't have asked for a nicer reliable first car. After I got it I started realizing how much im interested in cars. I began polishing it and waxing it cleaning everything and making it look pristine you would never guess there are 145k on it. I also started learning about how a car worked the first thing I ever did was change the air filter, then I made a cold air intake kit and its cool and all but there's nothing like a muscle car, my dad tells me all these stories about all the cars he owned and worked on throughout his younger years, and how he worked in a parts shop for 20 years. I really would like to follow in his footsteps. I wanted to find an affordable car that had a variety of potential modifications. I landed on the F-body camaro and firebird. They look simply look stunning. Im eager to learn and finally get a project started.

This wont be a daily driver, something I will have on the side, and since im not that technical yet I want something that runs, I wish the classifieds on here were closer since they are so fairly priced. Ive been searching for weeks trying to find something affordable and not in horrid condition and reading message boards on camaros since its something i actually enjoy. Ive always wanted a manual and would prefer one, t-tops are so cool also. I stumbled across this ad today and Im interested, i realize for the price im looking for i most likely wont find anything under 100k. However, maybe you guys can help me out, is there a particular defect that happens as the miles rack up or a particular number where the engine or transmission usually goes.

i have an 89 iroc z hardtop 5 speed 305 tpi with 147,xxx that runs and drives, i drive it everyday, just needs key part of ignition and body work you will see it if your interested, i am FIRM on 1,000 dollars not a dime less, would like to sell fast so first one with 1,000 has the car

dans89

FYI fox body is a mustang. F-body is the platform on which the car is built off of. Ill forgive ya this time, but next time it's Oh and welcome to TGO! Some of the best info on the web is on this site.

camaronewbie

Depending on the body work it needs, and what the key part of ignition is all about (you don't want to get nabbed for "receipt of stolen property felony charge), go for it! $1000 is pretty good deal. I see snow - check for rust.

And yeah - next time you mention the F-O-X word here, we'll smack ya! They are like lawyers - The only good F-O-X is a dead one!

Carpaholic

iTrader: (1)

Best thing to do is write down a list of what options you want, stuff you could live without. Since these cars are kinda old you may not find exactly what you want..and you may bypass something good because it wasn't exactly what you had in mind. Also, get a budget of what you want to spend and stick to your budget.

T-Tops have a tendency to leak.. well, the seals do. The water can then get into the car and ruin the headliner. Thats not hard to fix but the rust under the weatherstripping could be a pain. Ask if you can pull some of the weatherstripping back and see. I'll send you a link and you see how bad mine was. I have some before and after pictures of that.

Rust under the car is also something to look at. Make sure the floorpans aren't bowled and rusted.

I'd also try and find a car that hasn't been too modified. I passed on alot of cars that were nice looking but had carb swaps and stuff. Try to find something as stock as possible so you don't inherit their problems.


Make sure the car starts ok and doesn't smoke all the time. Alot of these cars, mine included, puffs a bit of smoke on startup occasionally from old valve seals. Smoking all the time isn't good.

Also, make sure you verify the RPO codes and VIN to make sure your car is what's claimed to be.

Then I guess all the typical used car stuff applies. Drive it in town and on the highway and see how it goes.. Maybe get a third party to look at it like the family mechanic or whatnot.

Major thing is to stick to your budget, make sure its mechanically
sound, and isn't a rust bucket.

Deluca119

iTrader: (1)

Could you explain that a little more please? If its a certain part of the ignition I have to get a certain certificate?

I've never inquired about a car, only went with my parents, so Ive been emailing questions on almost all the cars I have interest in so I can get a better feel for it. How does this sound, i tried to keep it short simple and to the point,How are you, Im very interested in your IROC, where are you located? Does the car have a clean title, what number owner are you, Is there any rust on the vehicle since I see snow in the background, how is the clutch, what part of the ignition is broken does the car have to started differently? Thank you in advance!

Also, how do you bring a car home when you purchase it second hand? The way my parents brought mine home I dont think is the most common way, they were allowed to drive the car home with the original owners plates on however they gave her the cash on the spot, then they drove back returned them and picked up the small accessorys.

Guest

for a $1000 cash i would jump on it as long as it ran good.

TNT_Z28

If your hearts set on a manuel tranny (good choice IMO), youll be limited to a 305. (unless u find a modified car of course). That isnt necessaraly a bad thing though. When i ran an LG4 modified only with headers and a flowmaster, and with the emmision regulation BS removed, i was getting 20+ mpgs. Thats something to consider. Also, the fact that swapping to a 350 is remarkably easy.

If your looking into 305s, one thing to look into is what your more comfortatble running and working on, Carborater or Fuel Ingection.
IMO, a carb would be easier to work on and modify, and probably cheaper to buy as well. On the other hand, if you go with TPI, youll definately have an advantage from a performance stand point and probably fuel economy as well.

Other things that I would look for are:

-1987 an up. the engine will have a roller camshaft (something youll learn about when you get into modifing) as well as the newer style GEN-1-smallblock heads.

-if you choose to run a carb, look for an L69 motor instead of an LG4. its a better performing 305, but they are rare, probably cost more, and i think they were offered 1983-1986 so that controdicts my pt. about '87 and up. (i believe the difference is a G instead of an H in the 8th digit in the VIN # but id check into that. i know u can easily fine the definate answer on this site)

-Manuel transmission. the finall gear ratio will be 3.23-1 whereas with an auto youd get the LAZY 2.73 to 1 ratio (which is pretty much worthless). check for a limited slip differential (commonly known as POSI)

-CHECK FOR LEAKS! the last thing youd want is a motor with a worn out front or rear main oil seal. or even worse, "disappearing antifreeze" (ive delt with all 3)

-RUST! is a pain to deal with and hurts to look at. i know first hand. i found my car for 2100 dollars with 63,000 original miles on it. unfortuatly, it probably sat in a field for years because the rear wheel wells are rusted and the drivers floor pan is pretty much gone.

-Take your Time. This is probably the best piece of advise i can give. Dont jump at the first good deal you see (as i did. dont get me wrong, i love my car, but there are certain things i would do differently if i were to go back and look for a camaro again)

you already have a daily driver so search wise and well. expand your search. some examples are, craigslist, ebay, used car lots, word of mouth, police auctions, etc.

I hope this helps and i congradulate u on ur choise to go with a third gen f-body. youll find out that there one of THE BEST handeling cars of there generation, and generally on the road today. there is an endless supply of parts for them, as well as all the knowledge you could want buried on this sight. plus the ability YOU have to learn and work on these cars yourself is reletively high. i knew NOTHING about how cars REALLY work untill i got mine and started wrenching on it. post or message me with any questions. id be happy to try and help. GOOD LUCK!

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

In order of importance I would check out all these things:

1. NO RUST ANYWHERE. There are too many of tehse cars still around that have no rust to bother with a rusty car. DONT GO NEAR A RUSTY ONE.

2. AS STOCK AS POSSIBLE.

3. If you plan to do a lot of upgrades, I'd suggest you stick to base models that have v8s. They're slow, but you wont have to worry about trashing a more valuable, more rare car. Stock IROCs and Z/28s that are well optioned at this point (25+ years from when they were built) and still stock should stay that way. They're going to get more and more rare and more and more valuable. Also LG4s and L03s have a boatload of torque and they've got that v8 sound to them. Look for a 91-92 RS with a 305 and a T5. I think that's a great combination for a fun daily driver. Those TBI 305's are reliable, simple, have a great sound to them, and if you're shiftin the gears yourself they're very fun. I had a blast in mine for years before the 350 and manual went in there.

You'll learn as alot of us have or will, that the more you start modifying a car the more quirky and temperamental and weird they get. I'd leave alone any carb conversion you didnt do yourself. I'd also avoid buying a car with a stock engine that has a carburetor. To me the only good reason for a carb is an engine that teh stock EFI wouldnt do justice. The TPI and TBI systems have their limitations when it comes to really powerful engines, but the practicality you can give up for a carbed car isnt worth it in a lot of cases.

I miss being able to just go turn the key and drive sometimes. Carbs are just quirky compared to EFI, and all the electrical work that goes along with the swap needs to be done right adn most people just dont bother doing it properly IMO.

Main thing is rust and make sure it's near stock.

Also another thing, NEVER BELIEVE ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU IT HAS A 350 IN IT! 350s are relatively rare, and cosmetically identical to 305's. They only way to tell if it has a 350 is the SPID sheet. It's in the console sometimes, in the hatch compartment sometimes. Just depends. ALWAYS ASSUME ITS A 305! Dont pay more for a "350". And never believe anyone who says they have "parts from a corvette" on it. That doesnt mean anything. If they start doing that nonsense just disregard it entirely and do NOT pay extra for it.

The advice about 87+ is good. Roller cams are wonderful and 1 pc RMS blocks are also a nice improvement for various reasons. Just slight modern refinements to the old designs.

And as mentioned, ignore puffs of oil smoke at startup. Bad valve seals are VERY common and dont really matter for normal driving. They just leak enough to allow oil to drip into the cylinders when you let the car sits overnight. During normal operation it isnt a big deal. But definitely see if you can smell oil in the exhaust after it's warm and idling or just driving. If you can smell oil when it's just warm and idling Id try to find a different car. Usually means the piston rings are worn which means a lot of bad, expensive things in the long term. Not an immediate concern but it does tell you how healthy the engine's internals are in a lot of ways.

ASE doc

The IROC pictured looks nice for the price. As far as things that go bad on the Camaro at certain milage, this depends largely on how the car is cared for. Oil fouling of plugs, especially on the rear most cylinders as they run hotter, is common on high mileage chevy V8s, This is prevented with regular maintenance and use of high grade oil. Also, exhaust systems rust out and need to be replaced. The trans and clutch on a TPI 305 can take a real beating with hard driving. This can lead to early failure. Check for clutch feel and engagement close to the top of the pedal on your test drive. Also, listen for noise from the gear box or hard shifting into any gear. Whenever buying a high mileage vehicle, I always change all fluids immediately. No telling when it was done last or if ever.

Deluca119

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the information guys! Dont worry Im completely aware not to jump on the first what appears to be a good camaro, same thing with my daily driver, the first car I saw I wanted it right away it looked nice but had some small problems, months later and a few cars later I landed on my current driver and couldnt be happier. However, Im now considering getting one of these as my DD because im not sure it would make sense to pay for both cars insurances and maintain both cars on a 17 year olds salary, which is actually high for someone my age but Id like to save some money too. Something will come up eventually, cant wait!

ASE doc

I do not recommend using your 3rd gen as a DD. It will be at least 20 years old and will need work of some kind, even if it's an excellent specimen. On your budget, you're not buying an excellent specimen. So keep your DD so you can feel free to work on your 3rd gen as needed without fear of losing your transportation. Plus, someday these 3rd gens will be recognized for the landmark cars they are and nice examples will be coveted. You don't want to run the wheels off of yours.

rs owner

I hope you don't mind me chiming in but I was reading your thread and I would like to offer my experience with my car since I'm also trying to do this on a budget. this is what I have and what parts I've went out and bought (kinda lengthy sorry)

($600) FOR an 89RS Camaro with a 305 v8 and a 700r4 4-speed automatic transmission (tranny was gone no good. along with functional ttops and power windows (window motors $50) and locks (air conditioning needs work.)
car has 85-90 ground effects installed on the car (excellent condition), 85mph cluster (installed) brand new exhaust ($200 installed),brand new fuel pump ($200 installed),brand new inspection, Full set of 3rd gen. leather seats, full tune up and oil has been changed but needs another.91-92 z28 wheels and tires 75% tread ($380), and new coolant temp. sensor. black w/gray int. Thank God NO RUST!!!! except for pass. quarter panel (body work and paint) Rearend grease changed. ALL fluids changed.

1. 700r4 tranny ($450) low milage and warr.
2. hatch pull down system ($60) can be rebuilt ($115 from Top-Down solutions)
3. 1991-92 AERO-ground fx “complete"
(all door, quarter panels, rocker panel, and rear bumper, and a (brand new) polyurethane front chin spoiler ($450)
4. 91-92 z28 high rise spoiler ($100)
so you can switch out if you want to the 91-92 gfx (are very rare and popular)
5. OEM Iroc fog lights (2 sets) Very rare!!!!! ($80)
6. 91-92 red Camaro grill (free)
7. 145mph gauge cluster ($40)
8. . z28 steering wheel (free)
9. “SS” hood (separate not installed) ($150)
10. Iroc hood louvers ($140 on ebay) (free)
11. FULL set of 4th gen. Camaro seats ($80)
12. leather ttop bag ($30)
and more!!!!!!!

AND

Fresh 40 over 350 block 2 bolt main short block for future mod. ($600)
with arp main studs
Bored and honed with torque plate, decked
Brass freeze plugs with clevite cam bearings
Cast crank turned 10/10 with clevite main bearings
Rebuilt rods with arp wave-lock bolts and clevite bearings
Speed Pro Hypereutectic flat top pistons with speed pro moly rings

GET IT RUNNING RIGHT BEFORE MAKING IT LOOK COOL!!!!!!!!!!

Deluca119

iTrader: (1)

I enjoy hearing stories it inspires me to somehow get my hands on a Camaro and get to work already so thanks for sharing! Im still searching I just saw that car, the owner has not gotten back to me, i realize when buying a car that you plan on working on just like any car requires patience, and most importantly time. Im still debating on perhaps either selling my Escape or trading it for a Camaro if someone was willing then using the Camaro as my DD, because the idea of four cars on my parents insurance will most likely be a red flag, or if i gave my dad my car and sold his Montero since mine is in far better condition, its just that i feel that car has sentimental value to my parents since they bought me it and it took alot of time to find a car in great condition like that. My father did the same thing I want to do when he was a kid and didnt have a garage, and now is even contemplating getting a garage, im pushing hard for one. Thanks for all the help with everything guys im going to continue looking.

Edit- Now that I think about it who says i have to insure the car right away. As i drive to school every morning which is a very short trip less than 2 minutes, theres a looks like either 90, 91, or 92 Camaro with the big spoiler which means either a z28 or Iroc which appears to be in pristine shape, I heard from my friends dad he was asking $7000 which appears to be alot, however i think those would be one of the situations where if someone were interested a trade could work out, like soon to be father expecting a child needs to move from a coupe to SUV, that would be the ideal situation for me, but thats alot of wishful thinking.

TNT_Z28

Agreed

Do you plan don doing a lot of upgrades? You can either have a DaIly driver or a car you modify. You can't have both, I tried that once and it didn't work out so good. My camaro was my "daily driver" for two years I was walking probably 200 or so of those days.

Ron U.S.M.C.

It says "just needs key part of ignition" The "89" came with the VATS" security system.If he has the key you might be able to have a cylinder lock re-keyed to your key.Dose any one else see this as a possible problem.

zraffz

I'd pass on that particular car. These vehicles are a dime a dozen and you can find a better one for that price.

The only thing I'd suggest making you tuck your tail between your legs is obvious body damage and rust. If panels don't line up properly pass on it. If you see rust on the driver's side floor pan (right behind where the clutch pedal would be is the most common spot) or where the rear passengers place their feet is another spot. Other then that though, anything you can get your hands on for a grand is a good deal.

These cars are great for younger people because they are cheap, descent handling, RWD cars. Perfect for the "modern day muscle head".

ASE doc

I see your point but for someone who knows what they're doing, the VATS bypass is cheap and easy.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I would suggest NOT trading in a nice, modern daily driver for a 25 year old car. I dont care how nice it is, they just tend to develop issues at this age. If you just save up and buy the camaro on your own, and insure it on your own, you'll be glad you did. Every time you fix something and it doesnt go according to plan, or upgrade something and it takes longer than you think, or something breaks out of nowhere.... you'll be glad youre not stranded.

And driving it around without insurance is immoral and illegal. Do NOT do something that selfish, cheap, and stupid.

Deluca119

iTrader: (1)

I would never drive around without a insurance, Im from NY id rather not go to jail. I did find another Camaro in a nearby area which I found interest in and it has everything I want but a v8 engine, but beggers cant be choosers i suppose. I agree I need to keep my Escape as a daily driver as it is practical and reliable. My hopes are that i can find an owner willing to let me drive the car back to my house with their plates on, which is not uncommon at all. This ad looks promising the overall mileage doesnt help but this is just a car for me to take apart and have fun with and if i have to money to insure it, which shouldn't be more than 800 or so a year considering i would only get liability but im a new driver, it would be something to cruise around in on the weekends since it has t-tops and a manual. hers the ad:

5-Speed, 2.8L
T-tops
current odometer reading 218,00
White with red/black interior
Overall the car is in good shape- I’ve had it for 3 years and am the second owner. Newer tires, brakes recently redone, radiator recently replaced. The interior is in very good condition. The back hatch doesn’t latch properly and the inside driver’s door handle needs to be replaced (part is about $40.)

rs owner

just a few things to keep in mind

1. TAKE YOUR TIME
2. NO rust
3. Stock is best
4. cheap is the only way to go
5. and this should have been 1st get it running right 1st then make it look cool
6. parts; Don't be afraid to wheel and deal (most ppl are thru with their car or gettin rid of them)
7. if parents don't mind let car sit until finished or driveable legally
8. consider upgrades that match to a 350 very hard (aka time consuming) to put a v8 in a v6 car
9. Don't hack/patch if you don't have the know how or tools GET THEM do the job right
10. DRIVE RESPONSIBLY AND HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron U.S.M.C.

Yes,I must have "bumped my head"That completely skipped my mind.Funny because I have done the bypass with my own car.Still a little tricky unless your skilled in that kind of thing.Besides wouldn't that leave the car dead in the water,how would you even start the car with out the bypass already done.

Deluca119

iTrader: (1)

Yea slowly been looking through all the classifieds I can find. I really dont see too many however. My parents would have no problem with the car sitting in the driveway until finished or driveable and ready to be insured considering my father did the same thing when he was my age. Its tough not having a garage but I really like third gen the most out of any car to restore, my mom said if I find something that my dad feels has potential he will give me the green light to get it. I also just enjoy looking through the classifieds and seeing what out there. The 2.8 Camaro looks good and I feel like any running car under $1000 you really cant go wrong with so long as it doesnt brake apart the second you drive away, doesn't help that i do not know how to drive a stick but its always been something i wanted to do.

rs owner

have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

falconman

I wish my parents loved me that much. I have to get a job first, then I can only borrow $1000 for a car. I can't figure out how I'm supposed to get a job before I get a car.

I'd say fix the ignition and any major bodywork. That will get you an extra $1000 with $400 worth of work

el_muerte

I'd say skip the V6. Their HP is only about 20 less than a bottom-of-the-barrel LG4 305, but lacking lots of torque (which makes the car fun). You won't get better mileage from the 2.8 than you would with a 5.0 TPI, and when you do decide to put a V8 in, it'll take a lot of modifying to replace the V6, significantly more than swapping out another V8, and you probably won't save any money on it in the long run.

Deluca119

iTrader: (1)

Ive been eyeing the one in the market place for 1700 obo 85 Iroc Carbed 305 5 speed 97k miles. Doesnt idle,have to keep rpms up, dad says 1700 is alot for a car to just sit there, its nice wish i could get it eventually. Its only a town over also, then i saw what appears to be an iroc or just has iroc rims around the block with a for sale written on it. Hope something comes up eventually for the right price.

james.gould150

i hope yo uhave better luck with your purchase than i did..i recently bought a 91 z28 tpi..no rust on clear coat peeling ran fine for the test drive,so i paid the guy 1500$.. 20 mins down the road the car started idleing poorly and stalled at stops ... 150$ of parts and 2 weekends of my time later ran better but not perfect...480$ at my mechanic runs great now just needs pain and cosmetics ... i am fortunate to have had my old station wagon and a decent salary but without that idve been dead in the water...be careful be sure to HEAR and SEE it RUN and DRIVE let it warm up and drive it then...im now 2000$ or so into mine and its still not 100% but i love these cars and have a DD so its not all that big of a deal just be careful there are a lot of scammers out the who add oil additives that will quiet internal knocks and such until you change the oil and bam knockin ... good luck on your search buddy!!! and dont impulse buy save up and get a good solid base to workin on

Deluca119

iTrader: (1)

Yeah i see what you mean. I want to spend under $1000 even lower and find a running one. I search craigslist daily, found something promising for $500 have to take a look with my father if I can convince him that its worth the investment.
1986 Z28 for restoration. Car runs but engine needs help. Trans rear end fine needs some body work. Interior in pretty fair condition needs minor work and clean-up. Must go need the room. Best offer.

He has the title in hand and claims no rust needs body work looking for atleast $500. Sounds fair.

torque_is_good

it's a $500 roller

make sure it has all the parts

if you are looking for a vehicle that needs a rebuilt engine, rebuilt tranny, new interior/exterior etc then you've found your car. If you are looking for something that you can at least drive within 6 months for less than $2500 total out of pocket then you haven't found your car.

If your budget is $500-$1,000 then expect to find $500- $1,000 vehicles.