camaro1185

HELP!


CLICK FOR VID

Here is whats happening:
-Very soft when the car is dead cold. Gets louder when warmed up
-Oil pressure is 60 when first stared and 30-35ish at idle even with ticking
-No CEL's.
-No metal on dipstick
-The noise goes away for a split second when shifting from gear to gear (auto tranny)
-Cant really get a good listen using the screw driver on the VC/exhaust manifold etc, but just bought one of those mechanics stethoscope and will check today.
-Also, I have yet to pull the belt off the accessories to see if that does anything.

About 3 weeks ago i got a slight ticking/knocking sound that can be heard really well from under the car, but at one point I thought It might be a lifter or rocker, so I started with removing the DS VC and everything looked good. My friend was telling me he thinks its a low end knock and that I can have a spun bearing. I also thought it might be a TC bolt that backed out or a cracked flexplate, but pulled the inspection cover but everything was tight and no cracks were evident.

Before I go ahead and pull the motor, what else can i check to confirm it is internal engine damage.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The flexplate normally cracks around the crankshaft bolts. Its hard to see it if you havent pulled the tq converter back or even pulled the trans out.

hydrolic144

iTrader: (2)

I'm dealing with the same thing now but think I've got mine down to a rod bearing. Doesn't really sound like a knock. Do you have a loss of power?

afremont

The tap is so rapid at idle that it's not in the valve train. It's something at every revolution. Doesn't sound low pitched or hollow enough to be a rod, but I suppose it could be. I immediately thought of a cracked flex plate as well or torque convertor bolts backed out and hitting.

camaro1185

Nope, no loss of power, in fact, I told my GF yesterday that the car felt REALLY strong, but that was probably mainly due to the cool weather we have.

I bought one of those stethoscopes to see if i could pinpoint if it was coming from the engine, and i put it EVERYWHERE, i could not hear a difference in the engine, and even when warmed up it did not tick. I then popped it into D and it started ticking, but not as loud as it used to. I then put it back into P and it was really quiet. Im thinking now the FP is what it must be. I just really dont want to pull the tranny and find out thats not the case. Im going to check a few more things to try and confirm that.

I also removed the drive belt and that didnt make it go away (not that I thought it would).

hydrolic144

iTrader: (2)

Hmm. Do you have a inspection cover on the trans? If you didn't really hear a noise with the scope you may be lucky. When you can though, get under the car and see if you hear anything under there, mainly the oil pan.

camaro1185

I hope to do that tomorrow.

hydrolic144

iTrader: (2)

Hey what's the latest on this? Figure it out?

camaro1185

Unfortunately no, I have slowly been trying to narrow down the possibilities. Using the mech. stechiscope I probed the valve covers and the exhaust manifolds and did not find the sound to change. i also removed the plug wires one at a time, sound still didnt change. I changed the oil and checked for shavings, none in the oil, but after that the sound did become more pronounced.

The sound STILL stops for a second when shifted between gears, and ONLY shows up AFTER the car oil pressure has dropped a little (warmed up). With that, I think I can rule out the flexplate because it would do all the time if it was cracked. Also, a main bearing would probably most def leave shavings, so I THINK i can rule that out too. I unfortunately think it might be a rod bearing. I have a few friends that are going to come over and see if they can confirm this. If it really is a rod bearing on a very well maintained engine with only 81K on it, i will be very pissed since most guys here are running these engines to 200K.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I still have a $5 spot on the flexplate! Atleast I'm really hoping its that. Its the easy fix and I hav had it hapen to me 4-5 times. ;-)

camaro1185

I really hope your right too. I don't want to put the money on getting the car back up and going at this point, I have other more important expenses. How have you figured out its your FP, did you have to remove the tranny every time???

hydrolic144

iTrader: (2)

Well you gotta remember things tend to expand when warmed up. So who knows, but definitely try to diagnose it every way possible before breaking it down. Typically if it's a rod bearing, it'll make some sort of noise all the time.

Another thing as well, with as loud as the sound is, if it was in the block somewhere, the knock sensor would pick it up and the car would run like crap, like mine is now. Could very well possibly be in your drive-line after the engine, especially when you say shifting gears.

Shredder1500

same thing JUST happened with mine. didnt realize how bad my vavle seal leak was. i was down to 3 quarts of oil in my 5 quart engine. i was running the crap out of it. my guy just said he hears a slight knocking. sounds like its NOT internal. could it be fuel injectors, ive always heard a slight ticking. engine only has 55k on the original motor.

camaro1185

These are all very good points. Ill have to hook the datalogger up to it tonight to see if I have abnormally high knock. With that said, the motor runs as strong as it always has, and maybe even more so since we have been having nice chilly weather. I really hope its a flexplate.

Shredder1500

just got back from my guys house. we had it up on his lift, it is doing the same thing as in your video. we pulled out his hearing tool, and found that it is coming from around the timing chain area. so its either the timing chain or lifters. we are going to tear the engine apart soon to make sure thats what it is. we pulled the belts off too, its not the water pump, alt, ac comp, etc...

camaro1185

A timing chain sound would happen all the time correct? Mine starts only when the car gets warm (oil pressure drops).

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

OOOOO Also check the balancer outer ring and make sure its true and wobble free while car is runing. I had a car that was so bad the balancer outer ring had worn a hole thru the timing chain cover!

camaro1185

Part of me is thinking it can be something internal into the tranny. The reason I think this is because sometimes it wont tick/knock until i move the shifter and if it was a bearing in the engine the symptoms would be different. It is possible I have a bad TC or tranny front pump. Here is something I found where this guy has the same symptoms as me.

http://www.mombu.com/chevrolet/chevr...-11369476.html

afremont

You really need to get under the car, remove the inspection cover and take a good look. Make sure the tranny is bolted to the engine snugly and that the 3 (and I mean all 3, not just the easy one) torque converter bolts are tight. If all that looks good, then I still bet it is the flex plate.

camaro1185

I can guarantee you those are tight, I cranked on those SOB's to make sure. The bellhousing bolts, I didn't check those.

snarley

hey, my engines making a rapid tick. just a shot in the dark, but if its coming from the front passanger side. check the smog pump with a stethiscope... and thats what iv located it to. hope this helps

Red Devil

Should have popped the hood in the vid. My first reaction was valvetrain... but getting that much louder under the car, I'll have to go with flexplate at this point. Get under there with the scope and find it.

camaro1185

http://s911.photobucket.com/albums/a...DSCN2489-1.mp4

Heres another video taken yesterday. As you can see the sound has gotten a lot quieter for some reason. The only things that have changed since the last video is the addition of the catback and I noticed I was really low on coolant in my overflow so I topped that off (I know that didnt do anything to fix the sound, but those are the only changes)

You can hear it toward the back of the PS when I have the camera there.

This coming week, im going to run a compression test on the cylinders.

drjewalton

Don't mean to hijack your thread but I too am having an intermittent ticking noise similar to what you describe.

I have a 1984 L69 Z28 with a 5 speed manual transmission (so that would rule out torque converter if the sound is the same)

I am not able to bring up your video but I have made one of my car's noise and wanted to post to see if in fact it was the same noise. NOTICE how it just disappears toward the end of the video.

Check it out:


Are we dealing with the same noise here? What could this be?

Thanks

camaro1185

Very similar sound, but yours gets louder as your rpms go up, my ticking gets faster, but not louder. Yours seems like an engine noise, where I think mine is tranny related.

hydrolic144

iTrader: (2)

I finally pulled my engine apart and sure enough it was a rod bearing on cyl no. 3. I had the intermittent knock at certain rpms and all that funky weird stuff.

camaro1185

I havent pulled mine yet, but i think its the trans pump due to a way overfilled trans.

camaro1185

Tranny has been pulled, to install the t56, it looks like my ticking sound was a combination of one of my bellhousing bolts was REALLY loose and my flexplate was cracked (maybe as a result of the loose bellhousing bolt)

strotter13

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I am having a similar issue, as follows:

I bought a 1985 Corvette (L98 Motor) yesterday from a guy. Car has about 150k miles on it. He was convinced that it had a spun main bearing. I bought the car under the impression it needed a rebuild or a complete new motor (which is fine, it is my next project). After we got it on the trailer and started making our journey home, my Dad mentioned that he didn't think the main bearing was spun, and that it was the flex plate (he is a pretty smart guy). The guy we bought it from said he knew it was a main bearing (he thought he was master mechanic, and I am pretty sure he was drunk, it was 10am, but thats besides the point) because he knew the sound, just form listening to it. I got the car home last night and started working on some diagnostic information as follows:

Pulled each spark plug to check for oil and also pulled each plug wire to see if the knocking decreased once the cyclinder was not firing.
Results: No oil in the cylinders and no decrease in knocking when pulling the plug wires.

Today I plan on just double checking and running compression tests on each cyclinder, and once that shows (which I am pretty sure it will) good compression I want to move onto the next step.

Should I pull the oil pan and check the bearings, or should I pull the inspection plate and look at that area. If I pull the inspection plate, what do I look for (I am pretty ignorant about this section of the drivetrain, so bare with me here)?? Any certain signs?

Side Note:
The car fires up and runs great (besides the really loud knocking noise, which is definetly not a tick, but a knock).
When pulling it into the garage I gave it a little gas and it jumped like it had plenty of horses ready to push it.
The oil pressure is good at start up, about 50 psi, however I have not ran the engine for more then a minute, worried that I could cause more damage to it.
Inspecting the dipstick, I can't see any prevelant metal shavings.

The story the guy gave me was that he did a burnout in the car (I am assuming by brake stalling the car), after he did the burnout there was a knock, and by the time the car got home it became the loud knocking that it is now.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

camaro1185

First, the unfortunate thing is that a rod knock and cracked flexplate can give off many of the same symptoms and make it hard to actually pinpont which one it is. I did many things that if it were a rod knock, it would have shown up on any of the test i did. I pulled the spark plug wires of each cylinder while running and the sound didnt get any louder, I drained the oil into a clean see through container, dropped a magnet in and swished it around. After letting it sit for a little before pulling it out and found no metal shavings. I used a box cutter to cut the oil filter apart, and again no shavings. My oil pressure was as it always was etc.

Mine defiantly was a tick though, and you said yours is a knock. Mine also stopped "ticking" shifting between gears with my foot on the brake. It also would not tick if started cold until I put the car in a gear. That screamed flexplate to me. Mine was really only able to be heard at idle and if I put my head under the car. It was drowned out trying to listen with my head in the engine bay. As I accelerated, it did NOT get louder, just got faster as the rpms went up and after a certain rpm it was hard to hear all together. I also pulled the inspection cover off and everything was tight and I could not see any crack, but I dont think you woiuld be able too since it cracks so close to the middle. I did not pull the TC bolts and push the TC back into the tranny, but you might be able to see a crack from there if you do that. Also you can probably start the engine with it un hooked and see if the sound is still there.

Make sure to check the TC bolts are tight. If they arent it will make a noise. Also, make sure the bell housing bolts are tight. One of my 6 was so loose it was only held on by about 2 threads, and that could have been the cause of my crack.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

camaro1185

Also, is it easier to hear up top or down below. If up top, it can be a pulled out rocker stud, flattened lobe or a stuck lifter.

strotter13

Wow thank you for such a quick response. The last time I posted a question on a forum (Yamaha R6) I had the problem solved two months before I got a response, lol. It is much appreciated. I have been browsing through you tube videos (I am at work, so I can't work on the car until later) trying to find a sound that sounds like what my vette is doing. After listening to about 6 differrent sounds, I found one that sounds exactly like what the vette sounds like. Im not sure if it will let me link it, but here it is:


I am going to get the car up in the air tonight and pull the inspection plate, and see what I see. If there is nothing obvious, then I will drain the oil and pull the filter, and see what I see. I will report my findings tomorrow Thanks again for the help.

strotter13

It sounds the same above and below. When you are on the passenger side it sounds like it is on the driver side. When you are on the driver side it sounds like its on the passenger side. When you are up top it sounds like its up top and when you are below it sounds like its below. This might be because of the echoing in my garage....

strotter13

Since you are being so helpful, I have a few more quick questions:

Lets pretend worse case scenario, motor is blown, crankshaft is shot, pistons are shot etc.

Should I swap in a crate motor?
Pull the current motor and have someone rebuild it?
Or attempt to rebuild it myself (I have never rebuilt a motor, I have only done motor swaps and that was a decade ago).

If a swap, suggestions ideas on upgrades (I would like to keep the TPI on it)
If a rebuild can it be bored stroked etc using the same computer and tpi??
Again, I am pretty ignorant about this and appreciate any help.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

The l69 had a heat riser between passenger exhaust manifold and y-pipe. The flapper would break loose and cause bad rattling noise.

camaro1185

That video to me sounds like a rod knock unfortunately. If your lucky, that sound in the video can be either loose TC bolts, or loose bellhousing bolts.

Personally, I would go with a crate motor. After all the machining, buying the parts etc you will have as much into that motor as you will into a crate, probably more. With the crate, they are usually built and tested so there is no chance for a build "mistake", but thats just me.

As for keeping the tpi. If you get a motor that has any bigger displacement higher flow heads etc, you would really want to get all the aftermarket big runners/lower intake and port your upper intake.

strotter13

Ok I pulled the check plate off of the tranny. The pressure plate looked good, I couldn't see any cracks. No loose bolts on the bell housing, pressure plate, torque converter. I also started the motor up and ran it, then went under the car and look at the torque converter and flywheel and they looked completely in balance and smooth. I drained the oil and as it was coming out of the pan it had almost a silver shine too it...lol. The drain plug happened to be a magnetic drain plug and there was some metal on the end of it as well as what felt like greasy oil. I was able to remove the oil pressure sensor (or maybe just for the dummy light sensor) and starter. Then I was able to get all of the bolts out that were holding the oil pan. The outside metal gaskets came off, and then my wife said it was dinner time so I quit for the day. The oil pan didn't pop right off, I taped it a couple of times with a hammer and a wood block, but it felt pretty firm to the motor. After the pan comes off I am guessing I will see that the main bearing or a rod bearing is spun. At that point I will start pulling the engine. I have a Haynes repair manual coming, but I would like to start before it gets here. A couple of questions:

Should I pull the motor and tranny at the same time? Or should I just pull the motor. I mean the tranny might as well get a rebuild or replacement while I am in there right??? Any suggestions on purchasing a long block crate engine? I think I am just going to stay at the stock 350CI, I would like to get it up closer to the 300 HP range, but I don't want to break my wallet.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Get A 96 Vortec truck longblock from GM, a decent roller cam and the proper SDPC intake for the heads.

http://www.700r4l60e.com/

Racetronix for your fuelpump needs.

camaro1185

If you see metal in the oil and on the drain plug, I think you may have found your problem.

I personally would pull them together. It makes it alot easier for you.

If all you want is a 350 with 300+hp the zz4 crate will probably do the trick for you. Throw that tpi on, get a custom tune and your ready to go.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...Fe0WMgod2VcA0w

Project86B4Z

My 86 iroc with 305 which is a 1980 block (heads unknown maybe pre 87 lb9 with headman headers hei and 78 q jet) use run like a champ and loved the 3.73 posi. It used to chirp the wheels on upshifts in my opinion it ran just as good as a STOCK 350 tpi engine even though it is a carbed 305. But now i have a top end knock mainly near the fuel pump area of the block the pan is quiet(comes and goes but only when w arm and i tried 20w 50 oil which made it a little quieter but it still there) i have no power and it chuggs and backfires sometimes through the carb its got a new coil and module and i cleaned and gapped my plugs along with leaning the fuel mixture. It helped a little the dang thing wants more ignition timing advance idk what to do i dont want to trash my 305 everybody does that and puts in a 350 or 400 i was satified how good it ran when i bought it but now i need help trying to fix the problem

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Oh yeah, you need my addy so you can send me the $5bux?? lol

strotter13

I think I am going to go with this motor, just to get me by until I can build one for it:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Perf...67353/10002/-1

I will let you guys know how it goes. Thanks for the help.