schroeder178

okay, as much as i love third gen camaros, im about to start banging my head into the dashboard of mine. I had great luck with my 89 rally sport 305 5 speed, never had a problem for the year i owned it. Decided I wanted an upgrade and got a good deal on a 89 iroc 5.7, pretty much my dream car. Bought it in january of 2013, drove it for a month or 2 flawlessly, ran great passed deq with flying colors, i was pretty happy. Now around march or so it started acting up, would go to start and have a real rough idle and run super rich, sounded like i cammed it. After about 30 seconds or so it would clear up and the SES light would come on, never checked it tho. Well then something else started acting up, after a certain rpm and while coasting (above 50 in od) the motor would not die but surge kinda and the rpms would drop and either pick back up with the lick of the throttle or come back on its own. been doing that for well over a year now and its starting to get old. Also have been chasing trying to figure it out, MAF and EGR codes pop up, and ive replaced the egr (that was a nightmare) and i cant afford to just keep throwing parts at her trying and hoping that "this'll be it"

Heres a rundown list of the symptoms that it has, and with any luck someone will help a thirdgebn brother out, before he goes crazy...

1.) after a certain rpm, motor likes to surge until either you give it gas or you wait it out and itll pick back up (i would tell you the rpm, but my rpm gauge is like 1500-2000 rpm off...thats another thing if someone has an idea for that)
2.) has a rough idle to it, especially after i bought new injectors and put in yesterday...
3.) runs really rich and has hesitation when you floor it. but then takes off and doesnt skip a beat
4.)MAF code and EGR code, replaced EGR in december...wasnt the problem and a waste of 80 bucks...tried cleaning MAF sensor but nothing changed..maybe the relay went or something else??
Ive thrown tons of stuff into her to try and fix the rough idle and surging, cap and rotor plug wires new plugs egr valve injectors fuel filter and nothing.

Any help from you guys would be much appreciated, ive tried posting on here before but didnt really get anywhere and im out of patients with it... so thank you guys in advance!!

rusty vango

welcome to the wonderful world of #&%!!#@(&^!!!!! TPI Camaros! first ,check your codes. then as cheap as they are, replace the MAF burn off and power relays.(call the chevy dealer and have them to give you the factory part numbers.that way you are sure to get the correct ones when you go to your local oreilleys to get them). and lastly DO NOT BUY a re-man MAF!!!!!! should you need one ,do yourself a favor and buy one NEW.also a factory service manual (NOT a Haynes,NOT a chiltons) will help you retain whatever hair you have left. check your codes, and let us know what happened

schroeder178

Thanks for the reply, I have 2 relays coming that will be at napa in the next hour and ill go get them and throw them in. I pulled the codes out of it and got these:

Code 32, EGR

Code 33, the famous MAF code

Code 34, which what I found was low voltage to maf or high vacuum? would the relays cause the this code??

thanks ill post how it goes in a few hours!

schroeder178

okay, i looked at the wiring going to the power relay and 2 wires have bare wire showing, is there a way to test to see if the maf is getting power at all with a multimeter or something? anyways at all to check all the wiring? also i noticed this red wire behind the motor that the po did a haggard job soldering it or something, but looks like the other half is MIA... any ideas on any of this stuff? thanks

schroeder178

hopefully the pictures pop up...

schroeder178

try again...

rusty vango

that damage is typical of these cars .after all these years owned by questionable "mechanics". you can replace the wiring pigtails,which will go a long way twards fixing your problem.BUT you need to solder them in,crimping them wont do the trick.and yes there should be 12v on the red wire in the MAF plug.to test your wiring ,un plug the ECM and test the wiring with a digital VOM.from there to the associated relays ect. as to exactly how ,that is where a FSM is worth its weight in gold.they have all the info and test procedures you will ever need.and yes having failed MAF relays and/or poor connections WILL give you both 33 and 34. forget the 32 .hell id worry if it didn't show up! good luck, have a beverage of your choice,take a deep breath and go fix your car

schroeder178

thanks for the reply again, i will definatly check the wiring and use the multimeter to check it all. And would the service manual from 1988 be the same as 89? thanks

rusty vango

I wouldn't trust that,the cars were known for minor diffrences.which could defeat you if you use the wrong info.

schroeder178

good point, they have a ton of 88 manuals on ebay for cheaper than an 89 one.

rusty vango

and ,really having the FSM will take ALL the mystery out of repairing/testing it.without mine ,my car would probably be nothing more than a collection of expensive parts.

rusty vango

I bought mine from a company called "helm inc."

schroeder178

just checked the voltage to the sensor and it has 12-13 volts to it while its running..so the relay isnt at fault..would the burn off cause a problem or how would you test that?? i banged on the sensor with a screw driver awhile ago to test it and nothing changed, is there a way to test the sensor itself? and i ordered a manual hopefully be here next week... thanks

rusty vango

I would change the relays anyway. that way you KNOW you have the correct ones in the correct place.no way to test a MAF without a flow bench.and im thinking you MAY have a bad MAF.forget a re-man one.period .a new one cost me $450. yeah,,, I know OUCH!! but its part of playing the TPI game

schroeder178

im gonna try and see if i can borrow someones MAF and throw it in and see how it goes.. spendy just for a gamble!! thanks for your help man!!

rusty vango

not much of a gamble. as there fragile anyway. be advised that not all MAFs are the same .there are 3 different ones and they are not interchangeable

schroeder178

450 bucks is a gamble for me at the moment... although i thought i just read on here that autozone sells them for 150... ill have to look into it

schroeder178

quick question, would i be better off to change to speed density?? i read about it on here but not sure what all in entails...

schroeder178

just looked, $183 for a new MAF... not that bad!

Rolling Thunder

I have a GM troubleshooting flow chart that could help you. Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send it to you. Generally speaking when troubleshooting a 33/34 trouble code it's advised you start by following the troubleshooting flow chart for the code 33. Essentially what it means is the ECM saw an unreasonably high voltage (indicating high airflow) given the engines operating condition. For example if the ECM saw 5V (max airflow the sensor can read) while just idling this would set a code 33. I would guess either a bad ground or an open circuit in the sensor itself or the green wire back to the ECM.

schroeder178

ahhh intresting. ill Pm you the email and ill go from there. thanks alot man for your input!

rusty vango

auto zone sells "cardone" $hit that is re-man. NOT new.look ,I bought 7 of them. the last one didn't even make it out of their parking lot. DO NOT be fooled by their low price no quality .piece of sh@#. I finally found a new one made by "rich-porter" sold at oreilleys. you may find one elsewhere ,and for cheaper. but make sure it is absolutely NEW.i would like to help you not make the same mistakes I made. after all, that is what thirdgen.org. is for .right?

schroeder178

It was a duralast sensor, I believe is new but I hear you about the cheap price deal. I'm hoping all this maf stuff solves the surging problem if I ever figure it out..

rusty vango

well I fought the unholy WTF monster for 3 years ,till I finally abandoned auto zone like a girl friend with herpies! got the part numbers from Chevrolet .so I was sure to get the right parts. bought a new MAF and both relays and....... all is good in TPI land at last

schroeder178

Also I read than code 33 makes the ecm go into limp mode... I've been driving around for a year I'm limp mode... Need to figure this out!

rusty vango

youre on the right track,at least. the FSM will help you find your exact issue. like I said ,their worth their weight in gold. I get 17 mpg in town and 26 on the freeway. and it runs and acts like I remember them being when these cars were new. hang on and you will be rewarded with a really sweet ride

schroeder178

Well lucky you!! Haha, also feels like my torque converter doesn't lock... At all... For three past year and a half, is that a symptom of limp mode from the maf code or is that a whole other problem. When the surging happens if you floor it you can feel and hear a clunk somewhere along the lines under the car...

rusty vango

yeah the TC wont lock up until its in closed loop.and it wont go closed loop till it sees all the sensor inputs are within its parameters.as for clunking under the car.look at your u-joints and torque arm bushing.and if all is well there maybe have a look at your rear axle. it also could be your exhaust hitting something

schroeder178

Its when it drops in rpms coasting. Either it comes back by itself or you gently do it and barely feel the clunk or you can slam it and really hear and feel it.

schroeder178

okay, after a looong hard look at my egr i found the problem ... now the hard part is gonna be finding the wire that goes to that temp sensor...

rusty vango

you need a new EGR temp sensor. they can be found for less than $80.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Not to hi-jac but since we're talking MAFS,

rustyvango....question. 88 5.7 TPI MAF and the Richporter. I noticed a difference in the internal wire on the Bosch and the heavier looking element in the RP. Is this what makes them superior? I can get one at Oreilly's here in Huntsville Ala for 388. That's a deal

rusty vango

I don't know if its a updated design that makes them work.i just know that when I quit trying el cheapo junk , and bought a RP one my maf sensor troubles stopped. another problem I had was the two relays. I was getting incorrect ones that had me going in circles. so I called my local chevy draler and got the GM part numbers for them .THEN I was able to buy the right ones .which also went a long way twards solving my issue. just because the guy at your local parts counter SAYS there the right ones DOES NOT mean that they are. a little investigation on your part goes a long way, I find. and ,,,wow,,,! my RP MAF sensor cost me $450 so ,yeah you got a good deal, there

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Rusty. I see they have NEW RP Distributors also, any good words on them?

schroeder178

I can't just solder the wire back onto the sensor?

rusty vango

no, unfortunately its a sensitive thermo switch that the ECM uses to tell if the EGR has opened. they are available for not too much.IMP they are well worth it.and as for distributors from RP I have no experience. but I just repair distributors as needed and keep the OEM one in service. they rarely go bad.and when they do ,they are easy to repair.

schroeder178

ahhh i see, thanks. also do you know where the sensor plugs into?? i cant find the wire at all..

rusty vango

this is where a FSM will prove itself. its a black wire (at least on my 86) that comes from the wiring harness, that comes up from the right side. you could separate the wires to find it.maybe some one tucked it back in somewhere. if you find it cut, solder it .a crimp will add EMF interferance

schroeder178

Also, I've looked at tons of diagrams but where does this one go to! Cannot figure it out!!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

You can unhook the EGR temp sensor wire and no codes will pop up, mines been unplugged since 91.

rusty vango

got to be there somewhere. and having it hooked up and working will go a long way to keeping that damn code 32 from lighting your CEL. there is a guy on here "tuned performance" that burns custom chips, he made me one and, damn .this guy really knows his business. give him a shout about a upgraded chip for your ECM. but that wire has to be somewhere in the bundle coming from your ECM. have a beverage of your choice,take a deep breath and find it. youre on the right track. and it takes stupidity or determination (im not sure which) to keep one of these cars running properly. hats off to you,and good luck!

Damon

ASE Doc did a post not long ago on "fixing" those older EGR valves that have a temp sensor. Many times the valve itself is good, but the sensor is bad, throwing a code when none is warranted. Might want to do a search, read what he wrote and/or drop him a PM. He really did his homework before he launched into the project. It was in this same forum, if I recall correctly.

mmadden55

In case anyone is interested

A bad mass air flow sensor will show up in several ways. Most obviously, the engine will run badly, possibly racing as if the gas pedal is being pushed down, or stalling when idling. It may also stumble or hesitate when the pedal is depressed. This happens because the engine management computer miscalculates the air-fuel mixture ratio.

If a bad mass air flow sensor is suspected there are a couple of simple checks. First is the tap test. With the engine running, tap on the outside of the mass air flow sensor. If it’s bad, more often than not this will make it will send the computer a different signal. The computer will adjust the fuel strength and the engine will stumble.

Another test is simply to unplug the electrical connection. The computer will detect this and go into a backup mode. If the sensor was bad and the engine was running poorly it may actually run more evenly with the sensor disconnected.

A more precise test is to connect a voltmeter to the mass air flow sensor output and to rev the engine. The output should increase along with engine speed (because more air is being drawn in.) More details on this test can be found at this specialist auto parts web site.

If the mass air flow sensor is bad for any length of time, the Check Engine light may come on. When this happens a code reader can be used to download the error message from the computer. Code readers are expensive, so the easiest thing to do is to take the vehicle to an auto parts store and have them read it.

Mass air flow sensor problems can sometimes be fixed by cleaning the wire. Start by removing the sensor from the intake system and then apply some solvent cleaner. Auto parts stores sell cleaners especially formulated for this task. However, it may only provide a temporary fix. In most vehicles replacing a mass air flow sensor is a straightforward job, although it’s perhaps best not attempted by the mechanical novice. Depending on the vehicle, a new sensor can cost in the region of $90 to $130, plus labor for fitting.

If a mass air flow sensor has gone bad the main symptom is that the engine runs poorly, stalling at idle or possibly racing. This happens because the engine management computer is providing an incorrect ratio of gas and air to the engine. Replacement is a straightforward task that will improve gas mileage and drive-ability.