Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Hey everyone,

My car is finally reliable enough for me to drive often, which is great, and the first time it's been this way in the 6 years i've owned it.

However, I still have a few things I'm working out.

I notice when I rev the engine, the knock count goes up, I have not yet replaced my knock sensor, and am hoping that will take care of any issues, i'll be swapping out the connector for it as well.

I've replaced the injectors (southbay bosch III 19lb) and spark plugs, and added in an adjustable regulator (also southbay). I also got a new fuel vent valve that goes under the car, as well as a new fuel pump.

I've been noticing a gas smell when I exit the car, definitely coming from the rear somewhere, what could cause this?

While researching this issue, I went ahead and plugged my scanner in, to see if I was perhaps running rich.

I can't really make heads or tales of the BLM and INT numbers, I had just started the car, so it's still pretty cold, and the numbers do move when the engine is revved.

The engine idles fine, and I have no CELs

Anyways, I notice my gas mileage is about 16mpg right now, and although I do drive a bit spiritedly, I feel like that number should be just a tad higher, maybe around 18-19?

Any insight to any of these issues would be great! Thanks!

Reddragon88gta

Are you running the factory 165 ECM? The PROM ID looks different than what my scanner reports but I am not familiar with other scanners. Some of the values seem off too, BLM of 108 and INT 100 means it is very rich. The IAC counts are usually near 160 at start up and work there way down as the car warms up so it being 3 is odd as well on a cold engine.

The temp sensors in Celsius threw me for a loop for a minute but if you convert to Fahrenheit they seem normal but Coolant Temp Sensors can cause problems like this too.

What did you set your fuel pressure to with the AFPR? To properly set it you disconnect the vac line that goes from FPR to plenum to simulate WOT. I only say that in case you set it with vac line connected and your fuel pressure would be very high.

I would also check the Oxygen sensor to make sure it is working properly or if original just replace. Does the O2 readings move a lot?

Hopefully some other members chime in as well as I too am learning the meaning of scanner values.

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

Did you retune for those injectors? Bosch 3's have different voltage offsets

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

I did not know I had to retune for the injectors, that certainly could be causing my issue.

As far as I know the ECM is the original for my car, but I would have to double check.

The O2 was replaced last year, and the readings seem to fluctuate as you'd expect.

I believe I set my AFPR properly with the vacuum disconnected, and I believe I set the pressure to around 48psi.

I will have to double check that tonight as well.

I'm not sure about the IAC, obviously at startup the engine idles higher and then calms down to the proper idling rate. I'll have to take a look at it when I cold start it tonight.


I was looking to order the Ostrich 2.0 and Burn 2 from Moates. These should be able to serve me well for a retune, correct?

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ctors-not.html

Also, I'd leave your fuel pressure at 43 at this point. I wouldn't raise it unless you had a problem going lean.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Gotcha, I'll check this out when I get home. Hopefully the tune required for the injectors is easy enough for a complete newcomer to do.

Reddragon88gta

I always heard the Bosch 3s run leaner than stock instead of rich unlike what your seeing. Aliceempire is right though I would bump that back down to 43psi and see if that helps.

I’ve also seen some threads that state some cars run better at psi lower than 43 but it all depends on the car. Mine didn’t like lower pressure.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

So, I was running at 52psi with the vacuum line off.

However, when I pulled the vacuum line off, apparently I'm an idiot, cause I somehow managed to pull off the freaking vacuum port. Just popped right off.

The adjustable FPR I had also wouldn't allow me allow me to get below 48psi anyways without the screw on top preparing to come out.

Tomorrow I am going to put the stock regulator cap back on, and see what kind of pressure I get. It's always something, I tell ya.

Reddragon88gta

I think you found your problem, 52 seems very high for a LB9. That is lousy that AFPR doesn’t work very well, I have the Holley and it’s very easy to adjust and I have tested pressures below 40 to over 50 so it’s adjustability range is good.

That vacuum port must’ve been very loose to come out like that, those are usually pretty stubborn to remove. Did it go back together good?

Keep us posted if your blm and int values go back to normal at stock fuel pressure.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Will do, hopefully things go smoothly. Im planning on doing Ujoints in a few days as well. I pray for no more issues.

I was able to stick the port back on, but I wouldn't trust it at this point. It was pretty cheap at around $50. Get what you pay for I guess.

Komet

+1, I have had the same experience with the Holley AFPR. Can't beat the toolless adjustability either.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

So, I managed to get my new knock sensor and fan temp switch and wire in, the fan temp switch solved the problem of my secondary fan coming on when the ignition is turned on and the engine off. It was an annoying problem, and I am glad this took care of it, like really glad.

Furthermore, I replaced the FPR with the stock one, with vacuum disconnected, I am now getting 45psi at idle, vacuum connected, 35psi. I took the car for a test drive and it is noticeably peppier, which is a nice bonus. It also bleeds down slowly, I'd say after about 1.5hrs it got to around 20psi after the initial 40psi prime. Is this normal?

However, at idle, my constants stay the same for BLM and INT, 108 and 100 respectively, this is after the engine warms up a bit. At start the BLM is at 118 and INT is at 128, you can see this in the log below. I am going to further adjust my idle later this weekend. Since I have the proper fuel pressure now, I expect that I should be able to get the idle a bit lower. Right now it likes to sit around 900 when it's warmed up, not sure if this is the cause of the issue.

Perhaps I'll double check my timing as well.

I have gone ahead and attached the log file from my test drive. I would be really glad if someone could take a look at it and notify me of any irregularities. I'd love to have a little more fuel efficiency and to get rid of that occasional fuel smell!

Thanks everybody for your inputs this far!

Edit: I notice my IAC steps go to around 0 at idle... Is this normal? Is this adjusted automatically when adjusting the idle? I followed the guide pinned on the site here last time I did it after installing the injectors.

Edit: I'm unfortunately not really sure what I am looking at in terms of O2 readings, however it was replaced last year. Could this be causing the issue? I sure hope it's not my MAF sensor... I put in a delphi unit last year I read here that this was a problem.. I've got the AF10320. I found a NOS Bosch for around $200, but I would rather not spend this unless I needed it... But time is of the essence with this unit. Apparently 9g/s is a bit high with the Delphi, and could be the issue. . .

I also read elsewhere that the block learn cell should be 0 at idle? I see it never gets lower than 5. When I was checking it last night, it was hanging out around 4.

Also, not sure if it matters, but it was about 40f Degrees outside.

Reddragon88gta

Let’s start with the idle, I believe you are pulling 0 on your scan because you either have a vac leak, which I kind of doubt because you corrected that earlier IIRC, or your idle stop screw is too far out. When you set minimum air according to the instructions in the how to section was engine at operating temp? did you disconnect the EST connector? If not the computer will advance your timing and give you this high idle after adjusting. Your chip looks like it wants 750 warm idle and your car being a stick that sounds correct, the ECM will do everything it can to get it there. Here is a detailed how to from Vader and a good article on IAC readings, the k e in the how to is a little vague.


https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...t-idle-my.html


http://www.gmtuners.com/tech/TPS_IAC.htm

Also definitely make sure your timing is good at 6 Degrees or 8 is usually good too before doing that.

As you saw in that linked thread your car might not like the Delphi MAF, it seems some do and others not so much. If you have a shot at a legit NOS Bosch that’s not a reman for $200 I would get it, as you know they are tough to find and you could get your money back reselling IMO if you don’t need it.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

So I ordered the new maf, and readjusted timing and idle. Still running rich, with a slight stumble. Got the idle closer to 800, not quite wanting to go down to 750.

In other news, what is this? What am I looking at here? How dangerous? How easy to replace?




Also, what is this wire for? Id like to replace it. On passenger side near distributor.

Reddragon88gta

The top pic is the rag joint for your steering shaft, does the steering wheel have a lot of play in it? They are pretty easy to replace and some guys go to the Astro van or Jeep steering shaft as a possible upgrade to limit play and give more responsive steering. Some claim that this increases noise so do research if you want to go that route. I would replace it sooner than later.

The bottom pic looks like one of the wires for the blower motor if I’m not mistaken. Yours isn’t terrible, there is usually a bigger connector near there that melts completely like on my car.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Hnm,

Well I was planning on doing an entire front end upgrade this winter, so I will add that to the list.

Not a lot of play currently, but im only going to be driving the car until right before the first snow. I reckon just another few weeks.

Im noticing I get a slight stumble with idle. I'm not sure whats normal or expected, or if this could be caused by the rich fuel condition, or if its something else.

Spark plugs and injectors reduced it pretty significantly, but its still there. Was considering doing the spark plug wires. Any tips?

Komet

Plug wires, cap, and rotor are so cheap they aren't worth considering. Just replace them.

Reddragon88gta

Komet is right on for the price of that stuff. I even did my coil and distributor on mine as the pick up was shot and it looked rough. The AC Delco reman distributor from Amazon worked out good and came with the hotter 369 ignition control module as well.

One thing I would change is go with the cap/rotor with brass contacts as opposed to the aluminum the Delco stuff came with.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

So the MAF should be in by Monday, I ordered the new Wires and Cap and Rotor with brass contacts.

I will wait to adjust the IAC steps again when these are installed. My most recent attempt still didn't get the IAC set right, sitting at 0-1 at idle.

If it doesn't work at that point, I have on extra IAC sitting around to try.

Will update as we move along.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Quick question, I need a new sending unit as I managed to toast the old one's fuel gauge connection doing my fuel pump last winter.

Should I go Spectra or Dorman, or go the extra mile and get the expensive reproduction from Hawks.

I really don't want to have to pull it out again, and I am already beating myself up for not just replacing it when I was in there.

Just want a quality unit!

Reddragon88gta

The only one I have seen available is spectra, as simple as those are it would be hard to pony up the extra money for the hawks but that is just me.

I took a look and saw hawks has only a new sending unit, I’m wondering if it’s just the spectra or dorman??? I remember for awhile Hawks was actually selling rebuilt factory units but those seem gone.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Alright, frustration is back in town. I got the MAF on, and the sensor is now reading at 5g/s. Couldn't do much of a test drive though, and the IAC steps are still reading 0 at idle. New cap and rotor+wires coming in tomorrow.

In other news, after hours of frustration, I believe I got the wrong U Joints for my Aluminum Driveshaft. Apparently I am a bit dull, I got two of these HERE.

Can someone please point me in the right direction as to which U Joints I need? There are way too many to choose from here. I am not sure of the year, but the driveshaft was originally off an Iroc, and it fit in place of my steel one without a problem.

Thanks in advance!

Reddragon88gta

That MAF is reading right it sounds.

U joints were very annoying to find for my car too when I did them this summer, that Spicer lifetime is a great U joint and worked well on the transmission end…the annoying part was I could only find a greaseable Moog 372C to go on the axle end. Rockauto had it when I got mine.

Another member said if you really pore through catalogs or measure/bring in the old one you can get a quality non greaseable like the Spicer but I already had the Moog.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Well, at this point the car is essentially down for the count until I get a new joint in at the axle end. I'll save the Spicer for the Trans side.

Looks like I'm gonna pick up that Moog and hope for the best.

Thanks!

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Are you in the Metro Detroit area?

I've had good luck with DTS in Warren.

https://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

I've talked with them briefly while trying to get the Eaton Truetrak put into my 9 bolt, they wouldn't do it for me unfortunately, had to look elsewhere.


Some updates, further frustrations...

So I got the new wires + cap and rotor put on, they look great, and I do believe this helped smooth things out a bit. While under the car, it became apparent that my Cylinder 8 Spark plug was loose, with a bit of burning around the outside. I tightened her up and she's nice and snug now.

I took the time to replace my IAC as well, here something else became apparent, it seems that I may not have had the first unit tightened down all the way to the gasket. Finding a proper tool to tighten this was a bit of burden, very small space to work, and none of my wrenches or sockets were big enough.

However after checking a few times, I believe I've created a better seal, and that this had helped. I disconnected the EST and redid the timing, I also went ahead and attempted adjusting my idle. The car, to my surprise was idling at around 450 immediately after beginning the resetting process with the IAC disconnected. There must have been a bit of a vacuum leak with the previous IAC.

This brings me to my next frustration. The "NOS" Bosch unit I received almost immediately began throwing the dreaded code 36. The Delphi unit didn't throw this code once for the last few months I had it installed. I am going to go ahead and try a different relay, although I am almost certain the problem is the MAF itself.

This is annoying to me because the readings coming from this MAF are in line with what they should be. However I can not deal with this code, and if the relay doesn't work, I'll be stuck with an expensive paper weight.

From my small test drive, the BLM and INT seem to be trying moreso to be in line with what they should be, though I haven't been able to take it for a 20Min+ drive yet to relearn the ECM.

So that is where I am right now. My new Ujoint came in, and hopefully I can get this reinstalled over the next few days. I temporarily put in my Steel Driveshaft so I could move the car around.

I will let yall know how the Relay goes, and I will likely be back to solve any further issues within fuel trims.

Thanks again everybody.

Reddragon88gta

A large crescent wrench worked for me to remove the IAC but it’s much easier with the TB off the plenum, was one of the primary reasons I did the TB coolant bypass to make removal much easier. There is also a special socket available if you look around, usually can be had on eBay. OTC and Kent Moore made them at one time.

Your old relay might just be shot, the Delphi doesn’t utilize the burn off function because of the non hot wire design so I wonder if that is why the code came up now? I would just replace both MAF relays and check the wiring/connectors.

The FSM clearly states a defective MAF sensor should not be considered for code 36. Sometimes this is a sign the ECM is on its way out too from what I’ve seen and what the FSM said but I doubt this in your case.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

I did just put two new relays in last summer, however I am willing to try them again.

I've read a lot of conflicting things regarding these relays, I just want to make sure I get the right ones. Incredibly confusing. I've read that PN 14089936 would work for both the Power and Burnoff.

The two I bought last summer were PN 158240 which claimed to be the MAF Power Relay, these two are apparently the same part.

I'm going to see if I can find a NOS one, without the MADE IN CHINA statement glaring back at me.

Reddragon88gta

I thought they were the same but I’m not 100% on that but I’ve seen the conflicting info too, if those are that new I would check the wiring…however that made in China never gives me much confidence.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, especially when its supposed to be AC Delco, or genuine GM.

I've found a couple on Ebay that look pretty good, I am going to go ahead and spend a little extra cash to get at least one good one, since the MAF Power itself doesn't seem to be giving me much issue.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

*sigh*

So inside my slip yoke I found a bunch of rust at the bottom. I poured some apple cider vinegar in there, I'm gonna see if I can let it sit overnight and scrape out the majority of the rust.
It must have been in there a while, and I never noticed it, a bit unfortunate, hopefully no damage is caused.

In other news, I tried an alternative relay I had sitting around. It definitely clicks on shutdown, I still have one coming in that is apparently NOS.

I can't imagine the connections are bad, and I have to believe that it is the MAF itself causing the issue. Much a disappointment, as again, it seems to be getting closer to where I want this car to be.

I have not wanted to drive it with this code, so I am going to switch in the delphi tomorrow (later today) to alleviate the code. I know you mentioned that the Delphi doesn't use burnoff, but wouldn't the code still be set if it was a relay or ecm issue?

Just feeling defeated, the car still has a very slight stumble, however right now, I'll chalk that up to the burnoff code (wishful thinking)

Just wanted to update, maybe tomorrow will be a better day.