megaracerx

found this on a toyota board...on a post about "first cars"



"First real car I drove...
78 Buick Regal - no TC though - 5.0 305. Decently quick for a Buick. I used to have fun beating IROC-Zs and watching them cry...back in the day. Other than the 5.0 on the side it was a true sleeper"


as stated above...it was an N/A 305....

THEGENERAL

thats kinda hard to believe....LOL...unless he was racing iroc-z's that were drivin by complete idiots....LOL

now if it was a 78 regal with the 3.8 turbo then id say it was probably a good race and he may have came up on top more than once....

megaracerx

well thats the thing..he say the Iroc was a 305 tpi...but still..a N'a 305 wont take an tpi 305...

ljnowell

A TPI 305 is NA, and besides I have seen lots of Carbd 305s that could hand a TPI305 car its *** on a silver platter. Personally I would be more interested in why the car had a 305 in it. In 78 they hadnt yet went to the corporate (read: chevy) engine in everything. It should have had a 260 something, a 301, a 3.8, or something similar. BUt, I do know of one 3.8 turbo that would hand the Iroc its ***.

megaracerx

lol...i know a tpi in N/A...and i also thought it was strange for a 78 to have a 305

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

those cars are smogged out junkers and heavy as tanks. A 78 305 is making much less hp than 305 TPI cars. That means less hp and more weight which = more slow!!.

No way any good TPI 305 car should loose to a 78 regal. Even the early turbo models might not take a 305TPI. But get into the mid 80s regal Type T turbo cars and 85-87 GN's and look out!

z28kindaguy

I don't believe it either. He'd also get owned by the 5.7 IROC's. A carbed 305? pffft!

phoenix305

uhh last time i checked the tpi 305 was n/a (naturally aspirated), meaning it dosent have any power adders ie; super charger, turbo charger, or nitrous oxide. just saying, i think you mean the 305 in the buick was carbed.

phoenix305

sorry to restate that but by the time i got done typing there was already like 3 replies sorry.

ljnowell

Ok, you lost me here. This is exactly what was covered above, who are you clarifying for? The early turbo cars were not the greatest stock, but how many cars that old are still stock. The small V8s in that year made about 35 less hp than the turbo cars, and the turbo cars made about 160. With some very slight mods you could gain about 25 more, and with a little bit of cash, even more. I worked on one last summer, that I would put against any stock 305TPI. It wouldnt lose. As far as this kid thinking the puny V8 is the fastest thing ever, well, look at where he posts, and look at the other cars. To a ***** an engine like that is fast.

nick418

i agree 100 percent wat Orr said

ljnowell

Stock vs. stock sure. But what makes anyone think that someone would keep a car like that stock, anyway? I used to have a 78 cutlass, and to tell you the truth, i dont think it was that much heavier than a thirdgen. I was in fact blessed, because my car had an olds engine in it, not a POS 305. Dont judge the book by its cover though. To say there is no way, is asking to be proven wrong.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

from the original post i assume it was stock but agreed never judge book buy cover

there is a late 70's malbu running around in primer gray hood and white chipping paint and 4inch cowl, and straight pipes. It looks kinda fast...and well is fast. 11's all day long. LOL But it doesnt look like a 11 second or a 12 second car.

ljnowell

Sometimes those are my favorite ones! It's funny when you see some kid in a 30k dollar ls1 fbody get smoked by someone with an old beater looking car. They have that look on thier face "you cant win, my car looks nicer!"

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well your talking about an LS1 driver and its a younger kid. WE all know *** created the LS1 and its unbeatable. OF course he will say my car cant be beat.

:hail: LS1 :lala:

LMAO

ljnowell

Nice, but its the truth. I posted about it in another thread, while getting gas one day a kid in a 2000 camaro pulls up (I had been messing with him at the stoplights) and talks to me. While standign there he realizes its hard to talk over my loping exhaust sounds. He says, man your car sounds rough, it might need a tune up. I'm like no, i just gave it one less than a 100 miles ago. He's like, "oh, then you need some of those bosch platinum plugs like i got, it'll smooth your idle right out, and adds hp too!". All i could think was, get away before you do something stupid.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

They dont call it a CAM-aro for nothing. LOL

big bumpsticks of old muscle, gotta love that sound. These moddern LS1's can have decent cams and have stock idle but make big numbers. Thats why i want one!

ljnowell

That is impressive, to maintain such a good idle quality and make good hp, but i still like to hears lots of rumbles and noise. Lets people know that you mean business.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I guess your not a fan of the sleeper then? LOL I like loud and mean sounds to go with a mean look.

THEGENERAL

there is nothing sweeter than a nice rumble and lope comming from a nice clean looking car .....

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

No it wouldn't...the old carbed turbo 3.8's were JUNK

ljnowell

In your opinion. With a fair amount of work they are pretty good too. The problem is you rarely ever see one that someone has put the time or effort into. I have, and i certainly wouldnt call it junk.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Turbo+no intercooler+carb=BAD

You will NEVER EVER get a hot aired 3.8 to run the same as the 86-87 setup with the same mods.

Can they be made quick? sure but it's not worth the $$

THEGENERAL

yes an intercooled v6 with turbo is definatly better ....

but ive riddin in a v6 3.8 turbo 78 regal and id put it up against a stock thirdgen 305 any day of the week ....

i know it wont take to the mods the same as a 86-87 model but its a completely different monster all together ...nothing under the hood is the same .....

i have seen a 3.8 hot air turbo buick that was quick as hell .......but not saying its worth the money isnt true its all in what you want to build ....look on here how many guys keep building up 305's when it makes more sense to build a 350?...its all in what you have and what you want to build ...ya know..

megaracerx

the only reason i said it was a N/A 305 because of the turbo model (so there was no confusion) so i know what N/A means..lol

tpivette89

can you post a link to this car or do you have any info on it? im wondering cause ive been searching through the www.turbobuick.com archives on the 3.8 carbed turbos lately and the fastest one i found was owned by a guy named "B4black". his 83' Ttype has run a best time of 14.7 at 92mph. when i asked why so slow, he replied "there is no aftermarket for the carbed turbos. everything that has to be done is through old fashioned hot rodding". it turns out that NO ONE mods these cars... B4black went on to tell me that they ran in the low 17s stock!

if youve found a faster carbed 3.8 turbo than a 14.7, id love to show it to these guys on turbobuick to give them some inspiration

THEGENERAL

let me find the url again .......ill post it as soon as i can ....

we have been busy working on my truck lately and not had time to mess on the net ....but i will look it up again and post it here..

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Dude, the 78 turbo regal was like a 16 second car

THEGENERAL

sure was when it was stock ........

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Then why compare a 17 second car to a 305.(you said you'd put it up to ANY 305, sorry but unless you're talking about a LG4 a 305 isn't running 17's )

You're starting a losing arguement...the hotair motors are junk, they're inefficient,outdated and not really worth building.

ljnowell

Actually, you are the one starting the argument, as in most threads you post in. Why does it matter if the car was modded. He said A 78 regal. ONE. SINGULAR. Its a statement. That isnt starting an argument, you are.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

The point flew WAAAAAAAAY over you head..go check the wall behind you

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Actually I need to clear up something.

The hot-air motors(84-85) can be made somewhat quick(I know someone that squeeked into the 12's with them).

The carbed ones are junk, they have under 200hp from the factory and well, they're worth about the same as a LG4

Just clearing some stuff up here.

ljnowell

The point didnt fly over anyones head, quit being a jerk. If you want this thread locked, keep it up. If you want to contribute, in a useful manner, then go ahead.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Wah, all I was saying is that the carbed turbo motors aren't good motors and they aren't fast. They're 17 second cars.

Boo-hoo.

ljnowell

And NO ONE DISAGREED WITH YOU. As a generalization, in thier stock form, that is correct. The singular car thegeneral, and I are talking about is not stock. It is not as it came from the factory.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

ljnowell-You say you've worked on the turbo/carbed 3.8. What was the guy running. What work did he do to it to make it respectable(being sincere/serious here).

Also, people don't put time and effort into them for a reason.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

and I obviously misread what he said

My bad. I reread what he said and missed how he meant it.

So what was done to it to make it a 14 second screamer?

ljnowell

It was my uncles car. He isnt a race track kinda guy, so there are no track times, just improvement over stock one could say. He bought the car new in 78, drove it for about 10 years. His daughter was out partying one night, and it started to overheat, as those particular cars were prone too. It started running bad and making a lot of noise, so she turned the radio up louder. In the end it gave out, and it was catastrophic. Pieces of the cam went through the engine bellhousing, not an exaggeration either, thats true. When he looked under it the starter was gone, he found it 200 yards back down the highway, with part of the block still bolted to it. In the end the only useable parts were the heads, intake, and accesories. He purchased a new short block, put in a better cam, and paid to have the heads reworked. While putting it together, he managed to find a different intake manifold, one of about 3 made for these engines. The first years apparently NEVER had an aftermarket. He devoloped a leaky oil pan gasket, that led to starvation at the turbo, and a ruined turbo. He bought what was referred to as a better unit, the turbo shop told him 30% more boost, but i dont know the numbers from it, as I really am not a turbo guy. In the end he ended up with a pretty decent running car. The last time I worked on it, was to rebuild the old 4 barrel that was on it. He's had the damned thing so long it was the 3rd time it has been rebuilt, plus he did it the first two times, and he isnt real good. BUt anyways to make a long story short, its a good running car, that will definately click off a better time than a 16-17. Is it worth the money? Maybe, at least to him it is. Whether or not its one of the fastest, it is a neat car.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

THAT sucks man!

ljnowell

The crappiest part was the damage to the engine. It had to have been the most catastrophic internal engine failure I have ever seen. The section of block attacked to the starter was huge, it actually ecompassed half the cylinder closest to it. When he first looked under the car, he thought someone had stole the starter off it. Until he looked closer and saw the block. The only regret is that digital cameras where not available back then, so there was no photographic evidence of it.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Holy ****. I would have loved to have seen that.

I've dealt with turbo buicks for a while now and one thing you can so about them is...when they go boom the REALLY GO BOOM

THEGENERAL

thats no lie when they go boom they do realy go boom...LOL

i can get a pic of the bellhousing i know for a fact ....ill talk to him and go get a pic of it this week sometime its horrific looking ..LOL

and yes there isnt a real good aftermarket out there for these cars but with some good know how and some money if the car means something to you then its worth it to build right???

tpivette89

in defense of these cars (i own a SFI hotair GN) these motors can be made to be almost as fast as a intercooled GN. a few years back in GMHTP, there was an article on a guy named Lee Thompson and his 85' Ttype. at the time his best effort was an 11.5 at 115mph. no intercooler. since then he has changed his setup a bit (still no intercooler) and has run 10.7.

there are a handful of guys running in the 12s with SFI hotair motors (i hope to be one of them in the next week or 2). and at least one running an 11.6. however, most hotair guys usually convert to the intercooled setups cause its easier to make power with them

ill agree that the carbed hotair motors are junk. actually the motor isnt junk, just everything ontop of it is. that setup was designed to give small V8 power, while having V6 fuel economy. it wasnt meant to be hotrodded. like i stated before, the fastest carbed turbo Buick i know of runs high 14s

ljnowell

Thats pushing it a little too far, I have seen carb'd cars running much lower than high 14s, it just cost the cash.

tpivette89

you would think there would be SOME mention about the carbed turbos running faster on www.turbobuick.com, but there isnt. ive searched the boards there and came up with B4Black's car (the one that ran the 14.7). if someone was faster, you would think those guys would know about it

like i stated before, post a link or pic or something so i can show it to them to give them some inspiration. when your general speed recipies are titled "How to get into the 15s with your carbed turbo" you can use all the help you can get

Mcdamit

carbed hot air motors were never the greatest i had a neighbor that owned one, really junky car, he was always fixing it. (Not tuning it but fixing it)

and ljnowell yeah that is pretty bad w/ that kid and the plugs. ill be honest though i dropped in bosch 4+ ones they work better than the stock plugs, Raise idle by 250rpms and burn more fuel. But they really aren't worth the 5 and change a plug. .

oh yeah here is stuff never to put in ur motor, original bosch platinums, i ate them in two miles. 3m plastic polish, will **** up interior. Zepperfex automotive polish will scratch the clearcoat.

ljnowell

That is a feature of his car, not those cars in general though. The one that I had the pleasure/displeasure of working on, never really had any problems, outside of the teenage girl that destroyed the engine once. Your neighbor should have got a better car. But that applies to thirdgens too. I cant tell you how many times I have heard "those cars are crap" "those are throw away cars" "they are slow". I just smile and say "You havent ridden in my car then" and leave it at that.

As for the bosch sparkplugs, there are some that will say they work better some worse. I think its a joke. They can really only spark on one of the electrodes, not all 4 at once, so they are no better than a regular plug, IMO. Not that I'm saying they are any worse. It just cracked me up with that kid. I mean, if you can find a plug that will smooth out the idle of my cam, damn thats a good plug. Thats what Ishould have told him!!