CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

Oh my, oh my, 3rd race for me this week and this is nice because it had been a very long dry spell for me. I think the last race I even had was last summer. But anywho, without further ado.

It wasn't anything special, but a light to light race as with the Accord I dealt with the night before. This guy at the light was in his G6 GT looking over at me because I happened to glance at him as I was looking around. He doesn't make any motions but I can guess what was going to happen next.

**** takes off the line as soon as the light hits green. Catches me off guard for a minute but I soon take off at about 10mph and catch up to him and pass him up. He slowed down after I passed him. 2nd light, red again! I get into the far left lane and he stays in the right lane. Light was longer this time but I let the kid take off before me on purpose this time. I wanted to see what he had. His car was quick, I give him that. But it was useless because I hit the gas really good (BTW, those new drag shocks/struts really do make a difference, even if it's somewhat small) and launched my car with engine screaming, pulled on him and passed his butt up. Got to the next light and I decided I had abused him enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I get the feeling that alot of folks out here think these IROC's are all slow, beat down, non-modified, run down and there is a sorta disrespect towards the car. I take care of my car, keep it clean, keep it running good, etc. My car loves me & I love her. I have a fit if anyone lays on it! At car meets I always get hit on (the car does). Even people running with tuners and ricers like my ride. I also take the time to learn about the Civic's and other little cars too.

On the road I usually mind my own business. I don't pick races, I just deal with the hand dealt to me even if it's a V6. Sometimes it's not worth racing and I'll pass but these adults and kids driving new cars disrespect the IROC-Z when they test my car on the road. Sometimes I KNOW I'll lose (like with that Camaro SS LS1 last weekend) and I enjoy the race anyway and my car is fast enough to put up a good fight for some time. But these new cars, they are generally quick off the line and generally quick enough to put up a small fight against even a mildly modified L98. But not enough to win usually. That's been my experience and the more I keep modding my car the faster she has gotten. I've raced on the track, on the highway and on the street. Each experience builds up for clues on how to improve on your car & it makes for good stories to tell. I am actually going to throw my car into a garage this winter (2011) and lock it up because I want it to last along time.

But, when I beat them I get a middle finger usually or a dirty look. Not my fault, I'm just representing the 3rd Gen's and representing the sport of cars/racing in general. 3rd Gen's still don't get enough respect & while I know that has been changing (based on my interactions with fellow racers and car guys) there is still alot of work to do.

When I lose I don't flip folks off or give dirty looks. I can't win them all and losing races is just like anything else in life, it's a part of growing and getting more character. Yes, even with racing there is character and respect for the other racer. Thanks for reading.




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Samurai_Of_Dawn

Fun read man, and I must say, I agree with you.

People these days (usually the younger generation) really have no respect for these cars. They're 20 something years old, outdated, not technologically up to date, and a long laundry list of reasons why they get no love. It's like if the car doesn't do something fancy these days, the car is garbage and is considered a slow pos. Plain and simple.

For me, I know that it's old and not up to date with todays technology standards, but something you gotta consider is, look what day these cars were made. Sure as hell wasn't made yesterday lol. During those years, it was cutting edge at the time, but like all new things, everything gets replaced sooner or later.

These cars have been around for 20+ years, and you're gonna have 2 groups: People that love 'em and people that hate 'em. Now like you and I, we resepct these cars (I baby the hell out of mine), and it's not just the respect that goes out toward these cars. It's just the pleasure of even having/driving one.

With that alone, I'm a happy and proud owner of a 3rd gen, no matter what kind of negativity is said about them. I love the car for what it is/can do, not what mochachino it can make lol. Every car has it's group of people who like/dislike, and this is no different. It's all a matter of opinions. We (3rd gen owners that is) happen to fall into one of those categories. If we didn't like these cars, we wouldn't be posting about them, correct?

Something I find amusing is, despite these cars being old etc... these cars sure get you more comments than you can shake a stick at, that much is certain.

I'm tired, but here's something I'll close my long post with:

"I consider my 3rd gen like I do with fine wine; It only get's better with age"

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for the response. A classic example of the attitudes towards these cars has been my experience with that Pontiac and the kid in the Accord the other night. Their attitudes I could read through the glass when we looked at each other. Them with a stick up the butt and while I'm not perfect at all, I certainly don't underestimate any car since you never know what is under their hood.

I have been going through as many forums as possible all over the internet via Google dating back to as far as 2001. I have read so many threads on various people racing 3rd Gen's and it seems like attitudes about these cars are that they're slow pieces of junk. The only 2 class of 3rd Gen's that seem to get any respect at all are the 350's which the Mustang guys seem to revere in a way and the 305 5 speed's which even those don't get hyped up too much. But those Mustang forums are full of guys talking about the 305's and when someone brings up a 350 in good shape, they say you better watch out man, those are quick cars off the line and it'll get you if you don't pay attention, lmao. That's what I've been seeing.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

That's something I like about the third gen community, most have respect for a variety of other cars. Ninetyone's L98 gave my Mustang a decent run. Awesome write up though man, really makes me want to get the IROC running again.

I've only had two real races since November, and not even in the IROC, it kind of sucks.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

Well, this Mustang guy happens to like his 350 IROC too. I wouldn't mind owning a 5 speed 305 though. I've seen some 305's make good power, although barely anyone will even mess with them.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

believe me dude i understand.I get tested everyday driving mine. It's like you said people tend to think your car is either slow because it's considered old(to the everyday driver) or they are just blinded by technology. I actually think the fast and furious crowd has had some influence on the mainstream and even the older folks seem to respect a riced out civic more than a muscle car now. The other day i had an older lady beside me at the light looking at the riced out celica with the coffee can exhaust next to her, and she was smiling at the car, then i revved mine too and she just looked over and gave me a dirty look like yeah ,yeah,whatever. It does feel good to put a 2010 Infinity G37 in it's place though. I like to slow down and get beside people afterwards to look at their faces! If they don't turn their head on purpose as i drive by. The fact is most of the newer cars appeal to the "everyday driver". ignorant to what real power is or how an engine functions inside. People will asume newer is better or newer must be faster. My opinion is "if you wanna go fast, you gotta go big".

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

New cars are ok for daily drivers, but i like a thirdgen for when i wanna drive something muscular.LOL
I do think the attitude towards our cars is changing for the better though as they are getting older and going up in value.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=CamaroIROC88350;

When I lose I don't flip folks off or give dirty looks. I can't win them all and losing races is just like anything else in life, it's a part of growing and getting more character. Yes, even with racing there is character and respect for the other racer.

Haha, sounds like the guy inthe 2000 Bmw 323ci "racing" that i left behind along with the new Dodge Charger sxt v6 that wanted in too. The Bmw kept taunting me and after i slowed down to turn off , 20 seconds later he drives by honking his horn with his thumb pointed down outside his window.LOL!!

Samurai_Of_Dawn

Man, I'm jealous of all of you. Atleast you guys get a car who wants to race you. I usually get trucks, suvs, and a damn jeep every once in awhile. I've had a few cars want some, but the latter far outweighs them *sigh* Only way I'll get to playin is if it's worth the gas. If it's not, why bother? Other than that, I don't pick the fights as I try to mind my own business.


Here's one of my street battles
(NOTE: both cars were not raced the same night. That, and they started the lil race, not I lol)

Only two cars that put up a hell of a fight were both audi. One was a single turbo'd, 5 spd, but the driver wasn't too good at launching, and the other one was a more newer 4dr model, but actually twin turbo'd sleeper (really, WTH is up with me and turbo audi's?) I give the match a draw as he showed me that doing a rolling go was a bad idea, but from a dig, he didn't quite have the jump, as it took a bit for him to spool up. That suprised the hell out of me, but a win is a win lol. Nyhh

Those were the only 2 cars that put up a real fight. A prime example of what no respect for these cars are was the driver of the twin turbo'd audi. After our races we met up at the light. I asked him what's he got and he casually replied "oh just twin turbo." He then proceeds to ask me "what ya got, a V6 or V8?" I reply "V8 of course."

I respected the driver after our lil dual, but after I heard that, I lost all respect as quickly as he earned it. Really now, a 350 isn't that hard to tell apart from a V6 now is it?

*sigh* I'm done ranting for now. Keep posting your kills and philosophys about these cars, and why people are either blinded by what these cars truly are, or just plain ignorant.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

I have to be honest, if I didn't take the time to modify my car each time I get the chance with more than just bolt-on's, I'd probably lose alot more on the street/highway. But I've worked on more than just the engine aspect and it does make a difference to take care of your car. Right now I've got a brand new set of trans mods waiting to be thrown on, new engine mods, a new intake system (that I'm debating on selling) and a new exhaust system COMPLETE waiting to be put on. Once that's all done, well, I will be making alot more power and I should be between 300 and 320rwhp and that is before I have a full tune done at Redline.

I will make more posts as time goes by and I'm thankful that I have had the money to make mods to the car and to maintain it. Otherwise I'd get my butt handed to me more often. Read my LT1 race from the other night if you haven't already.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/theo...t1-camaro.html

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and for the purposes of this board I have a future race coming up with a friend of mine. He just bought a 1996 Impala SS LT1. It was the last year for rear wheel drive in the Impala too. He almost went with a 2001 LS Lincoln car but loved the LT1 more. He wants to race me so were going to do that and hopefully I'll win. I asked him what he thinks and since he knows alot of the work that's done to my car (he has done some of it) he thinks I'll beat him. Lol, I told him but... but... it's an LT1!

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Uh, dude your L98 should beat that single turbo Audi with out much effort really. Audi A4 and Audi TT (1.8 and 2.0 single turbo)should be an easy win for you. Real easy.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I handed a guy his *** who was in a new A4 turbo. He looked as if he was coming back from the golf course and kind of looked over at me and snickered. I put it in D1 and when the light turned green we both stomped it. When i put it in D2 i almost hit him by sliding sideways! Needless to say i put him in the rear view. After that he would keep slowing down when i slowed down to avoid being beside me again in traffic.LOL

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

Well, some of those Audi's are pretty fast, especially the ones with the diesels in them. They don't make alot of horsepower but they do make some 262 ft. of torque depending on the application.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Don't discount the technology of newer cars. If you raced against my G6 GTP you'd be in for a run. I bet it would be dead even between them. I'd FEAR my current DD if I still in my GTA when it was stock. These are mid to low 14 second cars in stock trim with a good driver. They ET and Trap as fast as the average L98 car would.

I don't lack for torque in the G6, its got VVT and a variable intake tract, and you can FEEL it when you catch the system off guard. But most of the time its simply a linear pull from 2000rpm till it bounces off the redline at 6 grand. And it still gets 36mpg on the highway. Its stock, down to the factory paper filter.

Thirdgens are as fast as they ever were. The problem is that all the other cars have gotten faster. Thirdgens now have to fear stock 2011 V6 mustangs and v6 5th gen camaros. And there are a host of other daily drivers that sit happily in the 14's with v6's and I4s.

A Cobalt SS would be a VERY tough nut to crack for any stock thirdgen except a TTA or Firehawk.

I'm a realist. And i realize that were my GTA stock I'd be up against a much tougher crowd than "back in the day".

Samurai_Of_Dawn

ninetyone: During that time, the car wasn't really running at it's best, or close to it (check engine light, along with a few other things wrong with the car). The first Audi was a 02-03 looking model. The second Audi (not TT, as in the coupe looking sports car, or whatever the hell it is) was a 08-10 model. Really nice looking, big luxury car. Both were A4 I believe, but not 100% certain on it.

And yes, I did eat up the first audi. The second audi, I ate him from a dig. He did manage to get me while on the 40 roll (really now, that was a given lol).

As for the Pontiac G6, I believe they share the same motor as the cobalt. And yes, a well tuned cobalt (super charged or turbo charged) is pretty nasty. I got a friend doin low 12's. I ran him for fun, and I lost pretty bad lol, but I expected that to happen.


As of right now though, I feel like I'm in a dry spell as well, but maybe it's something else? I have it in me to race, but the other part of me doesn't want to because I wanna try and preserve the car as much as possible without tearing it up.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

i have heard that those cobalts are pretty nasty!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

No, the G6 shares the same motor as the Malibu's. The top of the line engine for my 2006 is the 3.9L V6 with VVT and variable intake length. 240hp, 240lb/ft, but that 240lb/ft is available from 2800rpm, and peak power is at 6000rpm. The engine is supremely responsive, and the power linear. It easily cruises and passes in 6th gear on the highway without needing a downshift. I should mention my GTP is the MANUAL 6spd, and not the automatic 6spd in later years. Its much more fun to drive.

Samurai_Of_Dawn

Thirdgen89GTA: Ahh, thanks for the correction. Was there a car in the pontiac lineup that shared the same motor as the cobalt?

ninetyone: Try one and find out. You may be suprised.

CamaroIroc88350: Best of luck to ya on the upcoming race man.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Does the supercharged or turbo charged Cobalt have a spoiler? If so, i have beaten one.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

There was not that much competition before the mid 90's really, just the old 60's cars to worry about.LOL

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

The cobalt is quick off the line though. Other than that it better have a turbo as small as the engine is.

Samurai_Of_Dawn

Some have spoilers, and some don't. The ones I usually see are badge shaven, and go without the spoiler. The 2dr cobalts usually have the turbo/superchargers, wherearea the 4dr doesn't have anything but a NA motor (to my knowledge anyways). Also on the 2dr cobalts, not all of them are turbo/supercharged either. They too come in NA motors with either 5spd or auto. It's usually the SS emblem versions that are equipped with the fun motor.

You'll know when you raced a real SS cobalt or not. Just listen for sound. It's a dead giveaway lol

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

A turbo Cobalt SS weighs in at 2800-3000, and has 205hp to 260hp out of its ecotec motor.

N/A models are 170hp, Supercharged are about 205hp, and the Turbo's are 250-260hp.

So a 260hp car with only 3000lbs to cart around will certainly tromp any thirdgen except for a TTA or Firehawk. The turbo SS's started in 2008 and are EASY to make more power. Just take a look at what dodge did with the SRT-4.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Basically, it looks like car manufacturers today are getting about 60 or more hp out of the engines than they did before. Of course throw a turbo on anything and it becomes fast. I wonder if it is a combination of things like aluminum blocks, heads and 4 valves per cylinder, dohc, etc.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

That's sounds funny, ecotec.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

Well, 205hp and 260hp at the crank yes. It's not making that at the wheels. If you have modified a IROC-Z or a 3rd Gen. with a good 350 powerplant then I think it can beat one.

I have to be honest, they're not that fast. I've seen them in action, both of them, and the turbo one gives the best run for the money but it's still got about 225 or 230 at the wheels. But who knows, let's have someone on here race one and tell us how it happened.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Lets think about this. Avg Iroc is what 3,350? A GTA is about 3450?

So 245hp for a SD 91/92 car divided by the curb weight. Iroc comes in at 13.67lb/HP. The GTA at 14.08lb/HP.

A 3000lb cobalt with 260hp = 11.5lbs / HP! That is a HUGE difference. Lets put that in comparison. LS1 F-body = 3500lbs roughly, and 305hp, thats 11.47lbs / HP.

So a Cobalt SS with the 2L Turbo will basically run dead even with a LS1 F-body. These cars turbo'd cobals typically trap about 103-105mph.

I've never seen an L98 car at stock weight with only Bolt-ons traps that high. The fastest I've ever seen is Formul8's old car with every bolt-on imaginable, 1.6RRs, slicks, stall, built trans = 13.0x @ 99mph.

Sure, you might beat one down the 1/4 mile from a dig, but from a Roll you are toast.

Lets not forget just how EASY it is to "mod" a turbo car. Boost controller + drag radials, and these cars will easily start running 12s.

Wake up and smell the turbos. Buick did it with the GN's, and the Ecotecs have the same potential for easy modification. Its so easy to make more power with a turbo motor up to a point (the turbo's limit, or the fuel systems limit). Cobalt SS supercharged? Can you say, "Pulley and Tune"? Guess what, he's making 270 now.

Where else can you bolt that much HP on? What about when they start doing header, downpipe and a cat-back? The header is more efficient, the downpipe and cat-back reduce back pressure so the turbo spools much faster too. There is a very good reason that I am afraid of these factory turbo 4-bangers. You NEVER can tell what they have if they are close to stock until they blow your doors off.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

I want to see someone do the race and then we can talk about it more. Put up or shut up is the motto we have here.

I'm going the turbo route on my own car so I'm aware of the advantages of those things. I think they're better than a supercharger sometimes. I do need to mention that Cobalt's are junk cars and are not highly reliable cars.

I had a friend with a WRX STI turbocharged and he raced a Cobalt on the highway. Now, this guy's WRX was FAST. It freaking lost to the Cobalt! That's the only one I've ever seen that can whoop butt. Most of the time I see kids driving a Cobalt or middle aged folks and I doubt those kids have the money or the know how to do much with them except make them more flashy. That's what it's like here.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I should mention that all 2008 Cobalt SS's and up have No Lift Shift feature. Which amounts to a basic anti-lag system once they are rolling.

I once beat a SRT-4 down the 1/4 mile. I saw him coming at the top end though. I thought he was fast, well he was faster. I estimated he was trapping 113 or 115. But when I saw the time slip it was my 13.5 @ 102 to his 13.8 @ 128mph! This car LOOKED, Sounded, and idled like stock. The ONLY clue I had that I should fear it was the drag radials up front.

If someone gave me a 260hp ecotec LNF motor with all the hardware to install it in my GTA I'd yank the LT1 in a heart-beat. I could drop over 200lbs from the car, and easily pump another 100hp into that motor without losing reliability.

Ecotec's are built strong and reliable as any SBC.

Just youtube some of these Cobalt SS's with the turbos.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

I just go by the Consumer Reports and for the most part, Cobalt's are junk. Maybe the better performance version has better quality built in, but I'm just a ole' former diesel mechanic & infantryman, what do I know.

Samurai_Of_Dawn

Thirdgen89GTA: I agree 100% with you man. Like I said, I ran up against my friend who's got the supercharged version, and that things bolted on along with pulley + tune. It's sickly fast for what he has done to it. I raced him for fun like I already mentioned above, and he ate my car fast.

SRT-4's and cobalts are tricky when they are tuned and fixed right. As for stock, I never got the pleasure of racing a stock version one of these.

As for reliability, I have the slightest idea on where those cars stand.

two60two

I never understood the concept of a very powerful FWD car. It's near impossible to get traction, especially in bad weather. My daily SHO may have over 200 to the wheels, but it doesn't make it until you were moving. My fiance is now driving it because it's great in the snow for the same reason it isn't fast off the line. I'm stuck with a 91 Caprice LTZ until I get my Thunderbird tuned. I don't have my third gen anymore, but I come here from time to time.

My brother owns the GS-t next to my Tbird. I'm selling him my GT3076R. Again, I don't understand a whole bunch of power in a road going FWD car, but all cars are fun. The Tbird is also A LOT faster on a terrible tune so I think that has something to do with that purchase from me.

What isn't pictured is my XR4Ti. Apparently I'm a Ford guy. I guess I just happen to love turbos as well.

With that being said I think ALL of the 80's cars are about to have a resurgence. The people who idolized them growing up are looking for play things. Soon it won't matter what the stereotype was with them. It happens with each new generation of people.

nomind

I know what you mean, not many will bother a healthy sounding thirdgen that is obviously running a manual transmission. I just wish my T5 held up better. It's dislike of hard shifting cost me a race or two.

freaky

i had an 05 srt4 with a 50 trim an a shitty tune an run 12.71 at 113 mph on 23 lbs of boost . i was spinning the rims in the slicks on that run . mine run high 13's stock .
i'm gonna either spray this 305 with a 100 shoot this year or put a t70 on it . but first i want to get the ebl an get the lt1 cam in it an headers i got last year on it .i'm gonna do it in stages an take it to the track after each stage .

xFeveredx

like an old timer told me once. Theres no replacement for displacement.
(when talking about running my '89 305 tpi/700r4 against an '05 wrx sti)

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

Did he not know that an '05 STI is a rally derived car wth a turbocharged opposed 4 banger and AWD that only weighs ~3,200 pounds, makes 300 LB-FT of torque, and 300 HP? Or, was that sarcasm? You must have one well built 305 if not.

I wouldn't want to go up against one of them in either the IROC or the Mustang. My only chance would be if I got them in a roll race, since then my traction issues go bye bye and their power sucking AWD comes into play.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I had to read it twice too.

You aren't imagining things. He originally wrote WRX STi. Now it says SRT4.

But it sounds like he was stating that the WRX, aka the SRT4 ran 12.7 @ 113 when modded, and high 13's stock. Not that the stock 305 ran high 13s.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

They're different people. Freaky is the one saying he owns an SRT4, and xFeveredx is the one implying that he beat a 2005 WRX STI with a 305TPI/700R4.

jersyboyy

iTrader: (8)

22 here had my 85 since I was 17, most of that time it was being worked on or sitting waiting for money to work on it.
I love and respect thirdgens, and iv come to know that my peers are HIGHLY uneducated on waht a real car is.
Homeboy sitting next to me at work right now thinks because a stock 350z blew his 01 c240's doors off that its the fastest **** ever. its a low 14 high 13 second car. My camaro ran low 13's with non posi rear bald tires and 2 pistons that had blown up ringlands from detonation.
It really bothers me that with all my knowledge im looked at like a tard when I talk about cars with my peers...yet if i walk into a hot rod shop I can talk sbc all day with some oldschool greese monkey and he knows exactly what the deal is.
Hell the few who know their bimmers and knowledge of motors with forced induction i can hang with too their just far and few inbetween!
ugh end of rant!

freaky

i'm 42 i had sbc when i was young then i got that 05srt4 an i had to learn turbo's now i'm back with chevy an i plan to combined to tewo .lol

xFeveredx

haha, i havent raced the wrx sti yet, my trans am is still sitting, needs some work done before i can drive it. He just heard me and my friend talking about racing em, and was basically telling my friend not to get too cocky. And i actually looked up the stock specs for both. hes puttin out some more horsies and torque than i am, but only ran a few ms faster than i would. So when i get her runnin were gonna put it to the test

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

You better have full bolt-ons otherwise you are going to get SMOKED.

Why?
300hp and 300lb/ft
AWD
Same weight.

Unless you have bolt-ons you aren't going to come near this car in terms of its launch. You may trap very near the same speed. But if he can drive it you will lose.

So solidly smash an STi one would need drag radials, and bolt-ons at a minimum. A stall would really help though.

Some of the STi's are trapping 102-103mph, this is as fast as my full bolt-on LT1 swap does with a 3750lb race weight on street tires.

xFeveredx

i dont think he really knows how to drive it lol, hes already half burned the clutch out, and even if i DO lose, oh well! win some and lose some lol, if anything i would just like to see how my car holds up next to his! and it will give me some incentives to get to moddin mine out :P

nomind

I love my thirdgen, but I'll be the first to admit that there are faster vehicles out there. It's 26 years old now, and technology has really advanced. However, I have a difficult time finding interested people when I'm out in mine. The slightly different exhaust note, and the fact that it's a five speed now make people wonder.

xFeveredx

it makes me wish i lived in the days when muscle ruled! classic music, muscle cars, not so many restrictions on a number of things, and the world was much simpler!

LTL_DMON

iTrader: (1)

A lot of them are though... I can tell you I raced a friend's IROC-Z in my little Pontiac Vibe GT and I walked it... not all of these car are what they use to be, they're not all lucky enough to have owners who give a damn... 190hp doesn't go as far as it use to anymore.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

These cars are 245 hp cars. I don't get it , why does everyone think they are like 190-200 hp cars? Even after 20 years of use and abuse it should still make 245 hp. These cars do not lose much hp.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You would never touch an Iroc z in a Pontiac Vibe.LOL Are you joking or what? Come on man. The only new Pontiac that is going to beat that Iroc is MAYBE a new GTO.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I'll give you a hint incase you didn't know. The 0-60 time on a 1990 Iroc Z Camaro is 5.8 sec and 1/4 mile in 14.4. That is just stock too. It should still pull pretty close to that even after all these years too.