TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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Im building a new 350 for my 92 Camaro and I have a ZZ4 short block, TPIS ZZ9 Cam, TPIS big mouth base and the Accel Superram. I been back and forth with head choice between Edelbrock, Trickflow or AFR. I decided after alot of reading that AFR would be the best choice, but now here is the final choice. 180 cc or the 195 cc street eliminator head?
thats something of a small cam for a super ram. that cam will make power below 6000rpms witch tells me that the 180cc would be better. so you dont lose any low end power. but to be honest with a super ram id look for a bigger cam than that. the zz409 or a bigger cam would do that super ram good. the zz9 cam is for a stock style TPI not a super ram.
so in short, if you stay with that cam 180cc if you get a bigger cam 195cc.
180cc will be good for a 350 to 6000 rpms, any more rpms than that and the 195s will get it done.
Another vote for the 180's. I've got a pair of comp ported 180's waiting to go on a similar setup, and they are really overlooked and I think under rated. They are great heads.
As you can see the 180's would probaly be optimum for your setup, however the 195's allow you to grow. Changing cams would be alot less hassle than heads, cheaper to.
Honestly, the new AFR 180cc heads flow better than the old 195s up to at least .500 lift (with the base port job) so it's not really that simple anymore.
I went with the 180cc heads, and I'm still sitting the fence between a 355, 383, supercharged, N/A, etc. etc but I do know I'm not building a high-revving high RPM screamer.
I dont plan on changing my set up in the furture as of now but you never know what might happen. If I go with the 180 cc it will be better now but if I decide in the future to go with the miniram and the ZZ409 cam the 195 heads will be better, but I probably will not want to change anything for a long time.
Low end torque loss between the 2 would probably be minimal, if any. If you cam, gear, and tune it correctly you will not miss any of it. It's all about a matched combo! 180s would be great for a LTR setup. With a Superram you gotta let it breathe. If you want to outrun LS1s on the highway 195s are a better choice. I used to have the old AFR 190s and wish I went slightly bigger (like 195 or 200cc).
Low end torque loss between the 2 would probably be minimal, if any. If you cam, gear, and tune it correctly you will not miss any of it. It's all about a matched combo! 180s would be great for a LTR setup. With a Superram you gotta let it breathe. If you want to outrun LS1s on the highway 195s are a better choice. I used to have the old AFR 190s and wish I went slightly bigger (like 195 or 200cc).
Basically thats want I want. I want a good streetable car that will get me throught emissions and still have plenty of power to be able to hold its own.
Honeslty my goal is to make as close to 350hp as I can. If this set up makes more thats great.
there are two factors here that tell me that you should get the 180cc. the fact that you have a 350ci motor and your cam. now like i said before IF you did go with a bigger cam the 195cc would be your best bet. i will also add, that the diff between the two will be minumal, like iroczz3 stated, i mean were not talking about 10hp its more like 5hp peak hp. but head size will affect your power curv drasticly. with a 195 head and TOO small of a motor you will lose lots of bottom end and break even up top. just remeber anything to 6k =180cc,and >6k = 195cc on your 350.
There is a slight velocity difference between the 180 and 195s, but considering the 195s have much more velocity than a set of stock 165cc heads,,,, it's hard not to go with the flow difference and the extra potential of the 195s. I know you didn't ask,,, but you would be better off going with more duration on the intake and less duration on the split,, along with .530 or so lift on the intake side on the cam - using the SuperRam and the 195s. You would see no difference in idle or cruise response and could pick up 25 horses or so,,, on top of the difference you would see between the 180s and 195s.
By the way I'm running 195cc Trickflow heads with the exact same cam you want to run. At least for the moment. I have a new combination waiting to be installed. Horsepower and specs are in my signature.
By the way the new AFR 195 heads are pretty darn good. Run as much compression as you can.
__________________ Best of 11.57 and 115.73 mph(1811DA). Motor: Dart SHP block 368ci, AFR Comp 195cc heads, 11.1:1 comp, highly modified TPI 1st style SLP runners, moded GM plenum and First Injection TPI intake manifold, Mike Jones 3/4 race cam, Yank PT4000 converter, Dyno Don 1 3/4" shorty headers, Dyno Don custom exhaust, custom cold air intake, AS&M monoblade throttle body. Meziere electric water pump. Mufflex 3.5" exhaust catback. Magnaflow 3.5" muffler#12909. Kevin91Z Tune. 4L60E installed. Now 420RWHP, 417RWTQ with new motor.
I have a new combination waiting to be installed. Horsepower and specs are in my signature.
