Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

just curious if installing

brand new ford 19lb injectors
air foil
new throttle body
new iac
and installing cold air intake with k&n filter

would all these small mods raise my idle/rpm?

i know i went with the better breathing setup but would the ecm/iac adjust to the extra air or better flowing air or just raise my idle/rpm???

im trying to rule out if i have an air leak/vacuum leak since they are sucha pain to find sometimes

Ward

iTrader: (1)

Try adjusting the minimum air, and TPS. Basically you're just setting the "base idle speed" the computer can take it from there, sort of like base timing. It's really easy to do, but you'll need a multi-meter:

https://www.thirdgen.org/tpimod2

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

not my first day here but i appreciate the suggestion. im the third owner and have never seen this car idle below 800.

i try doing min air and car dies if i go below a certain rpm, like 700-800.

i installed a digital dash so i gota figure out a different way to read my tach incase its displaying wrong and is actually correct and im trying to fix nothing

i was wondering if all these mods are putting extra air into the system and trying to close the blades with the idle screw will only let me get lower by just a smidge

im at the point im going to have to take it to a shop but i just bought a aldl cable and going to plug into a computer with datalogging software and see waht i can find out for myself before i pay for labor i hate paying for labor ive been able to avoid it for the most part


any other ideas please feel free im still learning as i go

Theking

iTrader: (1)

When you set the idle speed its really important that the engine has got working temp.. or else it will just die. the should have disconnected the IAC to..
the idle speed should be at 500rpm in Park or Neutral on 305 TPI
and the idle speed should be set at 450rpm in Park or Neutral on a 350TPI
The car shouldnt die that easy if you are above 500rpm..

what fuelpressure are you running ? are you sure its showing the right rpm ? and could you hook it up to a laptop and logg it ? then you could see the rpm and alot of other things to..

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

i did let it warm up. plus there are too many different articles on how to do it its soooooo stupid. do it in park no do it in drive

leave the a-b terminals grounded with engine running after unplugging iac no unplug it before starting car

i have to check my timing and im waiting for my aldl cable to come in so i can see what the ecm sees

and no im not 100% sure if the rpm is correct


illl post when i can get some results i just was curious if the k&n and air foil will prevent me from getting idle down to 500-600

i appreciate the help i hope it keeps coming im just annoyed with this car.

hopefully once i can datalog it will shed some light and i'm going to check andset my base timing soon

Theking

iTrader: (1)

The K&N filter and airfoil cannot make it not run on 500-600rpm.
and the 19lbs Ford injectors are really good for your engine, so they wouldnt do that either, something else is wrong then.. what fuel pressure are you running ?

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

stock fp

i installed an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for tuning purposes if i ever needed it but its set around 44-46psi and drops to around mid 30's once car is running so its pretty much stock fuel pressure

im running on a rebuilt maf sensor im hoping thats not my issue cuz i didnt feel like paying the full amount for abrand new one

tps is set to .54v and i have a spare iac im going to install jsut for haha's even though the iac in it is new/a yr old se if i didnt sometihng wrong the first time like length of thge pintle or soemthing

the throttle body is new so its sparkly clean


car runs fine just higher rpm

Cambridge205

There are some timing lights that will show what your RPM is. If you don't trust yours in the car than I would get one. Maybe you could rent it or if you want just buy it. Maybe your timing is off too.

My TB is old and needed some lubing or it would get stuck at about 1000 RPM. But you said its new maybe try lubing it just in case?

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

i wish that was the case, where should i lube it and with what? wd-40?

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

anyone?

Cambridge205

I used ATF for the TB. WD-40 is not the best lube for it just use house hold oil, or what I used. I doubt that is the problem but just an idea.

I just changed out my injectors for bigger ones and my car idles bad I hope getting my regulator fixed will fix that problem. So we are in the same boat but not really. Can you data log? That could tell you whats going on.

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

have to wait for the aldl cable to arrive and im just going to carry my desktop computer out to the garage to datalog until i either get a cheap labtop or get a car computer which is what i want more so i can do many tasks includding onboard diagnostics

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

On thing to watch out for. The ford injectors are slightly shorter than the stock GM TPI injectors. My LT1 injectors were as well. When I first fired the engine it would not idle under 1000 rpm. I found the vacuum leak at every injector to manifold o-ring. The fuel rail would not push the injector oring in far enough to seat with the fuel rail clips on. I left the fuel rail clips, but ground down the pads that the fuel rail bolted to. Didn't take much (1/8" maybe), just enough to force the o-rings into the lower manifold and seal.

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

i was afraid of that, how did u find/confirm there was a leak at teh injectors? and what did you use to cut down the pads/posts? i have a dremel


let me know thanks

Cambridge205

I had to cut mine as well for my injectors. It's suggested to cut them 1/4 inch but I think that might be a little too much, or I did a little more than 1/4 inch by mistake. Because I have to put a small washer under the rail. If you cut too much thats all you have to do. I used a dremal with cut off discs and broke many of them and was very annoying. If your going to do 1/8 just grind them down. 1/4 use the cut off discs unless some one suggests something better.

I use carb cleaner to find vacuum leaks just listen for the change of idle sense carb cleaner doesn't burn like gas it will decrees the idle. However if your wires are bad and they arch you will have a fire on your hands... Or if you can wiggle the injector left to right, or forward and back its not seated in the hole.

I don't know if this has been said in this thread yet, but the ford o-rings are thiner than the Chevy injector o-rings make sure you have the Chevy ones on the injectors.

Ward

iTrader: (1)

I didn't have to grind the fuel rail bosses, and I've got ford injectors. I used the clips too, without them the injectors were going up too far into the rails. I did use GM o-rings though, that could very well be the problem. I also had a slight vacuum leak at first that took me a while to find, at the IAC. When I put it back in, I forgot the little paper gasket that goes on it. It wasn't a huge leak, but it was making the engine idle higher than it should have.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

How much bugger injectors did you get ? If you went to big, You need to change injector constant in your PROM. and you dont want your injectors to have less then 2 ms PW on idle, then you loosing idle quality..

and lowering your fuelpressure under stock pressure is causing bad spray pattern..

So what size injectors you got, and what enginesize and mods ?
----------
You did use the Fel-Pro kit that I bought and showed you right ?!

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you on needing to change your injector flow constant, but NOT with the 2 msec ruling. I run LT4 28# injectors in my van (310 CID) at 50 psi (30# or 440 HP worth of fuel). The idle pulsewidth is 1.35ish MSEC. The idle is VERY smooth and consistent. No issues once so ever.

I have since re-adjusted the minimum IAC screw on the throttle body and dropped the park/neutral idle speed to 650 rpm and the Drive idle speed to 600. It is still just as smooth as before.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

High impedance injectors require at least a 2 millisecond pulse width at idle. If you run to large injector you will sacrifice your idle quality..
Im having trouble with my idle when the engine got working temp.. and Im open less then 2ms at idle... Heard people say that these "high impedence injectors" like Accel and Ford racing, should have 2ms at idle... to give a good spray pattern...

Will get my new Ford injectors this week,, will get back with some info if it runs better on the idle with normal size injectors

Fast355: your blm is little rich btw..

Cambridge205

I have 24# injectors, and I programed that in to a new chip. I'm new to the DIY PROM and I'll try changing the pulse width at idle. My mods are in my sig

and it didn't show my sig... here's my mods,
5.7 TPI, swapped to a T-5 transmission, rebuilt engine my self .020 over, ZZ4 cam, Bosch Design III 24 lbs injectors, self made custom chip, Hooker super comp headers, Coated. high flow cat. Hooker 3 inch Cat-Back.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I have run them down as little as 1.4 msec running on a TBI ecm (both EBL and 93+ PCM), no issue once so ever.

The BLM is a little rich because I tuned my VE tables in open loop, then enabled closed loop. The 02 sensor target voltages do not match the widebands narrowband simulated output.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

You should not have to change to pulsewidth if youve changed the injector constant, you set it to 24 right ? do you have any logs at all on your car ? You need to see what values you got before you change anything else, or do I misse d some logs ?

as said, dont change pulsewidth until you see whats it is now...

Cambridge205

I set it to 24 I set both double fire and single fire. I don't know what double fire and single fire is but they are both set to 24.

I found a regulator problem and now I'm trying to get that fixed. the regulator losses pressure too fast after the pump is turned off. I have returned one and got another and its still doing the same thing. I run the fuel pump by putting 12V to the pumps ALDL pin and run it for a while to get air bubbles out. But I think air bubbles are still in the rail and are causing it to drop psi. I have tested the regulator by pinching the return line and feed line and it all points to the regulator.

When it was running it was running at about 32 or 34 psi and thats too low for these injectors they should be running at about 42 psi. So when I get it running again I'll hook up my laptop to it and see whats going on.

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

where can i get gm o-rings?

Cambridge205

local auto parts stores should have them. Get the felpro ones tell them its for your car, don't tell them its for ford injectors or they might give you ford o-rings. Hopefully you can just buy 16 o-rings with out any of the other gaskets. Did you find a vacuum leak?

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Ward: in the Fel-Pro kit that I bought, there is only 8 o-rings included.. shall I only change the lower ones (intake o-rings) or shall I buy more o-rings and chane the upper ones to (fuelrail ones) or is it just the lower ones thats different ?..

Is it the same size o-rings on the upper/lower (intake/fuelrail) oart on the injector ? Think I got one set o-rings left from last time when I changed, bought the same Fel-pro kit last time, but I installed accel injectors and didnt have to use the fel-pro o-rings then, Now im going with ford injectors...so
Do I only need to change the down ones ?

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

im guessing thats my leak because i remember i couldnt getthe injectors to pop in into the intake.

i used the ford o-rings that came with the injectors

but the car has been running fine just higher idle drove it no problem just figured i got lucky

couldnt hear a leak but i'm going to shorten the posts to lower the injectors and install the gm o-rings and see what that does.

and i'm just going to change the lower o-rings unless soemone feels its a darn must! i only say this cuz the injectors don't leak fuel from where they pop in on top. its the just air leak in the bottom where they need to hit the intake

i just figured due to the age of the car and how the 2 previous owners must of treated it i was looking for a vacuum hose leak.


i'll let you guys know when i do this all today.

now before i go and remove all my upper intake again! is there any other things about these ford injectors i sshould know because id like to jsut get this over with in one more shot

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

ok heres an update guys, bought stock 0-rings for my car to fit on the ford injectors top and bottom

spent the past 9 hrs after working a night shift unbolting the whole upper intake

i took about a good 1/8-1/4 off the posts somewhere inbetween i jsut kept grinding it down until the injectors fit real snug n tight and popped in there good into the intake.


even installed my extra iac(brand new out of box) just to make sure i didnt ruin the first new iac a yr ago when i was still learning how to work with a tpi

even cleaned my maf because i over oiled my k&n filter and it contamnitated my maf readings

maf is fine now

idle is slightly better still around 800 fully warmed up and 20mins of driving after re-seting min air and checking tps voltage its .54v on the dot

im just begging to think my tach is off once i can datalog in a week or two i can be sure or find out what really is wrong

but im also goign to check my timing if thats the culprit ill fix it back to stock and hopefully i should be good to go

but thanks alot guys for your injector tips

wasnt happy about dropping bolts and taking everything apart again and the side where the cold injector/9thinjector plugs in is such a pain when it comes to moving that around to get the runner out and fuel rail

but 9hrs later back together driving down the road fine

ill keep u guys posted once i can get some datalog readings

are they any good at just idle readings? i was going to use my desk top in teh garage and datalog with the car in park until i get a car computer or cheap labtop

will i be good with in park readings for now>? liek will tehy give me any true information?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

The Tach in my car is WAY off. It says I idle at 950-1000, but my data logs are 700-750

Tach is 7000k, but my data logs show 4400.

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

i dont know why tehy dont connect the gauges directly to the computer or are they and its just the display thats off???

i know oil and temp are seperate senders

but this stuff shouldnt be so inaccurate. i know gm designed just for a refferance but wats the point if its wrong so hard to diagnose

at least i can tweak my digital gauges, they have a **** to go up or down on the number display

so once i can data log i can tweak the tach to read what the ecm sees

ill keep u posted if its just the tach display or if doing my timing helps

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Part of it is just age and old parts. Part of yours might be the digital dash is not stock and needs adjusted.

The newer cars it is controlled via the computer. I have an 02 wireharness in mine, and I could (and likely will) wire it from the ecm to the dash, rather then from the coil to the dash.

Bobby_80s

iTrader: (2)

after siting over night still takes second try of the key to get car to start and now my idle is higher like 1100 - 1300 and maybe finally goes back down to 900 once fully warmed up

im not going to drive it until i can check and set the timing

i dont think its an air leak im thinking the maf is going no matter how much i clean it due to the damage from the air filter oil

illl post updates

if anyone knows a good air filter besides stock or k&n that would be great

im lookin for more reliability than hp more like a happy middle between the two

more hp than stock but less chance of damage to engine and sensors

sounds too good to be available