rev.chuck

though id love to own another 3rd gen camaro as they were my favorites. as of right now i do not.

however i am currently building a 350 with tpi for my 62 oldsmobile. and i had some general questions and looking for some advice.

the tpi setup i have it stock computer injectors everything. i have a mitchell program to look up wiring diagrams hopefully to make the computer stand alone with the engine ill be running a 700r4 mechanical speedo aftermarket oil and temp gauges.

which fuel pump is recommended in an application such as this. i know i need 43 with the vac line off ive read that much.

do i need a return line with this setup?

would it be better to go with an aftermarket ecu?

the 350 is a gm crate 4 bolt main. im basically just rebuilding it to the crate standards new bearings etc. engine was like new when i yanked it from my truck but its alot of work to put it in the olds so i wanna go through it first.

the specs are
350 Cubic inches 4.00" Bore, 3.47" stroke
8.5:1 compression ratio.
250 HP @4300 rpm
350 ft. lbs of torque @ 3600 rpm
( These Numbers obtained with a Quadrajet Carb,1 5/8" headers , and an Edelbrock Performer intake part # 2101)

Engine consists of the following parts:

Block -part # 10066034, casting # 10066036
2 piece rear main seal 4 bolt main
Crankshaft- # 3932444
Nodular Iron 1985 and older flywheel bolt pattern.
Powdered Metal Connecting rods- # 10108688
Cast Aluminum Pistons-#12514101
G.M. High Volume Pump Oil Pump- part # 12555284
Hydralic Flat tappet Camshaft- #14088839
Intake Lift-.383" Exhaust Lift-.401"
Intake Duration @ .050"- 194 Exhaust Duration @.050"- 202
Lobe Seperation-112
This cam Has a mechanical Fuel Pump Lobe.



as of now thats all the questions i really have. probably alot of recycled garbage and i apologize for that. but ive been researching for a few days now and everyone has a different asnwer. fuel pressure specs are from this site. i figured best people to ask were the guys who own the cars this setup came in originally.

like i said big 3rd gen fan i owned 5 in the past and maybe when my foot lightens up a little ill be able to own another

thanks

Zane M

iTrader: (1)

Only thing I can help with is yes, you will need a return line.

rgarcia63

Ditto, on the return line.
You'll want to pull the gas tank to see if a thirdgen FI pump will fit in it, or use an external.
Depending on year of TPI; 86 and up psi can be as low as 40 and as high as 55 with a flowrate of 1/2gal/hr (1pt/15min), or more. To get it right you'll need to tune with an adjustable fuel regulator. If you're not going to tune it then all you need is the psi and flowrate.
I'm pretty sure you not the first to put a TPI in an Olds so I would visit those forums for what's best internal, or external, but unless it can be kept cool outside, an in tank fuel pump would be my choice.

As for the ECU of course aftermarket (proven) would be better, but do you have that kind of a budget?

If you're buying a new harness the stock ECU should do just fine, unless you try to get more than 10% increase in power. For a street car stock is acceptable.

nomind

If I were going to be doing an entire new setup, I'd opt for the ODBII option. There is a sticky for it here, and it will open up a whole other set of options for tuning, diagnosis, etc.

rev.chuck

i can get a pump in there with some work.

i found a place fairly local to me called larrys electric that will do the harness and computer for 405. i figure that will be the best option

i searched before responding here and didnt see anything on it.

got a link?




thanks for the reply's

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

What setup /ECM are you using ?
MAP ( cleanest and easiest ) or MAF ( easier to tune )

Standalone P/P aftermarket harnesses can be had a lot cheaper

For '730 MAP ECM
Has wiring provision for speedo , convertor lockup and ECM control of fans as per stock TPI


http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPI-Speed-Density-MAP-wiring-harness-for-1227730-/141143848405?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20dcd435d5&vxp=mtr

Basic no frills version

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-92-TPI-5-7L-Fuel-Injection-Wiring-Harness-/191004331049?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c78becc29&vxp=mtr

'165 MAF ECM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPI-Mass-Air-Flow-MAF-wiring-harness-for-1227165-ECM-/131073611558?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e84989726&vxp=mtr

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

just a heads up on Larry's electric memcals for speed density. The disable the esc knock retard function. They are using v6 memcals with cylinder select jumper soldered in. If your base timing is to far advanced or if they program in to much timing you do not have any spark retard protection for predetonation. There is a work around bye wiring in a tpi maf external esc module or using a gm 16151348 memcal.

rev.chuck

ill check out the links but in the end i still need an ecm


that may as well have been german lol thats why im not messing with my stock wiring harness and just buying an ecm.

larrys is about an hour and a half from me and has told me that if i have driveability issues i can bring it down and he will resolve them. main reason i was going to go with him.

im new to fuel injection ins and outs so this is far beyond my realm.

what would you reccomend and is there another company youd reccomend comparable or better in price

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPI-Speed-Density-MAP-wiring-harness-for-1227730-/141143848405?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20dcd435d5&vxp=mtrhttps://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...27730-ecm.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tuned-Port-Injection-Speed-Density-Memcal-Aujp-/161175181941?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2586ca1a75&vxp=mtrhttp://tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/7587

This would be a better package deal, for the memcal and ecm until Christmas I would do it for $200 shipped. Reprogramed without the vehicle anti theft , and emissions if desired.
Or If you want the exact thing Larry would sell you a v6 memcal chip with a ecm reprogramed to work $100 to your door.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I think this must be the one your looking at !
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNED-PORT-INJECTION-HARNESS-WITH-ECM-PROM-NEW-/301026976886?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item46169b2476&vxp=mtr

rev.chuck

yes found him through google but same setup

rev.chuck

im not ready to buy i still have to reassemble the engine, maybe a month or better before im ready to purchase.


i do not have an ecm just the stock wiring harness, the ecm my buddy whom i got my tpi setup from was the wrong ecm when he bought it.

my ecm is 01228062

i appreciate the help i need steered the right direction. i can do the mechanics and fabrication of the conversion but the wiring is foreign to me.

want it done right so its trouble free

thanks one of the perks about buying from larry is the location. im not looking for a performance setup per say stock should run damn good enough for me.


but if you think id be happier with something else im all ears or eye's in this case.

i need injectors, fuel pressure regulator and pump too.

rev.chuck

ive been mocking the engine together trying to contain my excitement

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You can try the search function on the top of the page
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-sump-kit.html
Southbay fuel injectors has a great deal on the Bosch 3s 22#hr
http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com...e-350-5-7-tpi/
If you haven't purchased a throttle cable yet lokar makes one for your 85-88 linkage.

rev.chuck

i had ideas on using the stock pump and sticking it in my tank. thats probably what i will do


thanks for the other links

what about the ecm/wiring? you think id be better off with something else?

what do you offer in a package ecm and wiring.

another question i had was the o2 sensor is there a delete option for that?

rev.chuck

thanks for the injector links thats the best deal i have found so far

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You might as well to with a carburetor if you don't want a o2 sensor.
I doubt the sender hole is large enough for a acdelco ep-241 pump to fit in the tank. If. The tank isn't baffled you I'll need to have a mostly full tank or you might have cavitation . I can offer the same ecm and programing with a v6 memcal as Larry's but you loose the knock sensor retard ability for $100 shipped. the harness on ebay is $260 so your saving $45 over Larry's electric.

fbccars924

Just for the sake of power and ability to make it safely if you ever decide to build more from the 350 the $200 V8 setup would probably be the better and more reliable options. IMHO, I don't know much about Chevy's as of now but I know on Nissan's if your ecu don't have the ability to monitor knock, or preignition, you end up either losing power or losing pistons. I imagine these TPI's are not much different.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Larry's electric should in my opinion list that there programing doesn't incorporate the use of the knock sensor. I recently found out that Jim's performance.com is doing the same thing. From what a customer informed me if a v6 memcal is used without the soldered in cylinder select for a v8 calibration the loss of iac control occurs. Jim's performance did not disable the esc knock retard function in their programing so false knock retard and loss of performance may occur. You can very easily use a 85-89 tpi maf external esc module and 350 knock 100ohm knock sensor. The output of the esc module goes to pin B8 of the 1227730 ecm. To prevent a malfunction error I have soldered on a 3.9k ohm resister on the v6 memcal. Here is a schematic of how to wire a external esc module. Where is says megasquirt that would goto B8.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

mention the promo code Tuned for a 10% discount

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

If you don't have a O2 sensor with a ECM you don't have the fuel control EFI is famous for
so you may as well save the wiring trouble and fit a carb

nomind

TPI ODBII - Thoughts/Opinions sticky
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...-opinions.html

And

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/default.aspx

His wiring harnesses are pretty well received for those that have gotten them.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The 411 is a nice ecm, The drawback other than the cost is tuning. efi live is expensive. If you have a contact to do live tuning would be the best. If your going to that expense why no go Ls Imo.

rgarcia63

You could take a look at DynamicEFI
This is what I'm looking to use on my 88' in 2014.

rev.chuck

didnt mean to bail on this been focusing on some other things since this is a side burner project.


im not going to carb, im happy to stick a o2 sensor or 2 whatever it needs in it. i wish to run headers, so is there a specific o2 i need?


that said i picked up another tpi setup today with 2 more ecm's, guy said they were both pulled directly from fbodys. and another wiring harness

the 2 new ecm's are
16144288
and
01327165.


im willing to sell anything i dont need and i have double of everything right now. just need to know if i can use any of the new stuff.

i mainly bought it for the injectors and the regulator still in tact on the fuel rail

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I believe you mistyped the ecm service number it is a 1227165 for a 86-89 tpi maf. For headers I would use a Acdelco afs-74

rev.chuck

your correct 01227165.

id have to have this flashed to get rid of pass key etc etc .. right?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

It depends on the silver sticker on the memcal the BCC broad cast code. it will be three to four letters. This is the calibrator identifier. vats stated showing up in late 88 on the f-body.

rev.chuck

abwt

8674

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

8
5.7 TPI
MD8
A/Trans
ABWT
Gm 16068672 1988 tpi 350, auto trans, fed emissions, 3.27 gear,
No vats

rev.chuck

so can this be used for my application? with a custom harness or is it useless to me? i am using a 700r4 transmission


thanks for all the info

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

its for a 700r4, tcc lockup is around 36-38 mph. The only issue using it over a 89 would be harder cold starting.

rev.chuck

so it doesnt have the 9th injector the intake it came with had it.

its gotta be better then this carb on the car now LOL.

so i can run this ecm and just buy a harness for plug and play?

i plan to run a cable driven speedometer

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

yes this will be a plug and play for a mild 350, I don't like the ninth injector cold start time switch myself. If cold starting gets difficult or you want to upgrade to the 89 programing send me a pm. Most aftermarket stand alone tpi maf harnesses don't use the csi wiring.
If your rail has the provision it can be blocked or used as a rear feed for the rail.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camaro-Firebird-TPI-Cold-Start-9th-Injector-Block-Off-Delete-Kit-/291039389495?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c34ca737&vxp=mtr

rev.chuck

sory if you answered this what is the "csi wiring"

thanks for all the info, is there anything i need to gut from my harness? ill probably just buy an aftermarket but i may look at doing it myself as well. i had seen a link somewhere with instructions lost it now.

hopefully the vss wont be an issue either.

is there an aftermarket outboard fuel pump youd reccomend?.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Csi=. Cold start injector
Screws inline onto your mechanical speedo
http://www.tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/7586
Fuel pump info
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-sump-kit.html
You might look for a maf in the classified section

rev.chuck

ok

thanks for the links

on the fuel pump.. im quite certain i can get a stocker in my tank but you had mentioned an issue with the tank not being baffled, so wasnt sure if i should just modify my pick up tube with a check valve to keep fluid in the line and run a pump off the firewall or inner frame rail or something.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

rev.chuck

just 1 more i promise lol


does it matter where the maf is located on these engines? it didnt on my later lt1 but i do not have most of the stock air box in fact all i have is the baffle and the connectors from the baffle, so a k&n is in order probably a tube to route it away from the fan turbulance. can the maf be placed anywhere in line?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The maf can be placed anywhere in line. Just make use all the connections in a cai are tight. Loose connections behind the maf throw off the reading.
You might want to adapt something like this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FIREBIRD-GTA-FORMULA-TRANS-AM-5-0L-5-7L-V8-COLD-AIR-INTAKE-KIT-SYSTEMS-1988-1989-/170864523439?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AFirebird%7CYear%3A1989&hash=item27c851b8af&vxp=mtr

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Fuel injection and a mechanical fan, the ecm can control a fan, it can be reprogramed to be seat at any on and off temp as well.

rev.chuck

i planned to run electric fans. just to clean the engine compartment up better