FOX-GTA_89

my stock gear with my modification description is now a 3:45 and i have a deal for a 4:10 gear 60$ and the price for a 3:73 is 150$
should i pay more for the 3:73? the 4:10 for a t-5 stock is it too high for a daily driver wich gear should i goo for for FUN vs. GAS spend on hiway??? give feed back of your own gear plz!! thank u!

TKOPerformance

Do you know what the 1st gear ratio is in the trans? The reason I ask is that if your overall gear ratio (1st gear ratio x rear end ratio) is higher than 9:1 or a max of about 10:1 then the car will act like it has a granny low truck trans in it.

I chose 3.73s for my car after I swapped in the T56, because it gave me about 9.85:1 ratio overall. The car feels very balanced like this.

Gas mileage and fun are heavily dependant on you. Obviously the 4.10s will offer worse mileage than the 3.73s, especially with a T5s 0.68 overdrive, compared to a T56 which offers a 0.50:1 6th gear.

Personally I wouldn't run the 4.10s in a daily driver, but plenty of people do. It's really up to your preference, but I would seriously consider the overall 1st gear ratio I mentioned above.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I wouldn't go above 3.73's in a daily driven street car. Especially if you drive on the highway a lot. 4.10's are definitely more liveable with an overdrive trans, but you'll still feel like you're driving a dump truck with granny gears with as quick as you'll be shifting through your first four gears!

onebluemcm

I know this is apples and oranges, but my '02 Ranger has 4.10 gears and very different tranny gearing to make it more "user friendly". Even so, at 70mph in the truck, it's turning about 2800rpm while my IROC at 70mph would be turning 1700rpm or less. I agree about trying to check your tranny gears - you'll be stuck with them no matter what you do with the rear end and that will help you decide what you want/can live with. My hunch too is that 4.10s with the Camaro T-5 might be too much. Good luck though!
K

383backinblack

my car doesnt drive like that, and it has 4.10's in it.

i've used 3.08's, 3.73's and now 4.10's in the same car,

the only time your really gonna notice it is when you hit top gear (and your gonna accelerate alot quicker)

its nice to have a good overdrive on the highway, makes the deep gears a non-issue......my TKO has a .68 overdrive....i can cruise at 80mph at about 2800 rpm

my first gear isnt that short either, but even if it was, we're talkin about gears here.....so if it was short, you'd already be going that much faster anyways, so it wouldnt matter.

i can hit 60mph in 1st gear if i wind it out.

almost every production manual transmission will give you first gear ratio between 2.2 and 3.4 anyways

TKOPerformance

Obviously the overall 1st gear ratio is different with aftermarket transmissions. It really isn't a fair comparison with a stock T5.

If your 1st gear is too short it can cause you to shift right at the end of the 60' mark at the track and kill your ETs. Yes, under certain circumstances you can run slower with higher (numerically) gears. RPM through the traps will also be a deciding factor here though.

Basically, it won't be fun to drive a granny geared car. I've driven my fair share of trucks with granny low gears, and you just take off in 2nd, unless you're hauling a ton of weight. Doing this to a car would be foolish in my opinion, because it will effectively turn your five speed into a four speed. This is why I urge you to check your 1st gear ratio. Some T5s used an ultra tall 3.27:1 1st gear, which would create an overall ratio of over 12:1, which is just too tall. I very seriously doubt that you would be happy with a car geared this way.

383backinblack

your way off here.......trucks are entirely different.

my GMC topkick has 6.xx rear gears (its a 2 speed rear end as well) and yes, you take off in 2nd gear.......same thing my with GMC 7000 series......

but thats a 6.xx rear gear, coupled with a 4-5 1st gear ratio......thats radically different than anything you'll get in a car ever and its a totally ridiculous comparison.....unless the cars your talking about have truck gearing (deeper than 5.00) and truck transmissions in them, you would never have that problem.

my first gear ratio IS 3.27 (tremec TKO).....its not too short by any means. you can leisurely shift to 2nd at 35mph without winding it to much at all.

by the way, this transmission is specifically intended for street cars with deep rear gears in the first place (www.fortesparts.com)

there are hundreds of thousands of cars with exactly the gear ratio's you are blaspheming that run and drive fine, and rip pretty hard at the track.

a 700r4 has a 3.06 1st gear ratio.....those run great in tons of cars with 4.10's.....in fact its a very popular combination because of the overdrive.

Id like to see where you got the magical 9:1 limit from, because its way off

TKOPerformance

Simple, the 9:1-10:1 range (I never said limit) came from an article I read by Mark Stielow. He used to be an engineer for GM, but recently came to fame by building three of the sickest '69 Camaros ever. I followed his advice an am very happy with it. I figure he knows a lot more about it than I do, and my experience bears this out.

The truck analogy was really for reference. Obviously no car trans has a 6.72 1st gear like a SM420 or other heavy duty truck trans with a "creeper" gear. Believe me I know all about super low gearing because I'm into 4-wheel drives. I run 3.15:1 low range t-case gears in my jeep with 3.54:1 axel ratios and a fairly tall 1st gear. It has traction out the wazoo, even with open diffs, but it tops out around 30MPH.

I'm familiar with the Tremec 3550 & TKO too. Before I got into 3rd gens I ran a Mustang 5.0, and a lot of my friends still have 5.0s and Cobras. Actually these units were designed for cars with shallow rear gears, because most Mustangs had 3.08s or 2.73s. Since the trans is so expensive they made it more appealing by allowing the trans to act like a gear swap at the same time as being stronger than a T5. Some factory T5s even have a 3.27:1 1st gear, like the one in my friend's '94 Cobra, which now runs an identically geared 3550 with 3.73:1 gears.

Comparing a 700R4 to a stick is like apples to oranges. They respond totally different to gear ratios, and a 700R4 has a big drop between 1st and 2nd, so it probably needs all the help it can get rear gear wise.

I don't doubt that there are plenty of cars with over 3.73:1 gears that run fine. Back in the 60s it wasn't uncommon for cars to come with 4:30s or even deeper gears stock. I certainly wouldn't want to drive one of them every day though. I like my hearing.

The point is that we have moved beyond helping the guy that asked the initial question. My recommendation is to go with 3.73s, and yours is to use the 4.10s. We can argue until we are both blue in the face, or we can agree to disagree. It ultimately comes down to opinion, and I think ours are both well know at this time. I think there is certainly enough information out there now for our fellow 3rd gen owner to make an educated decision. Feel free to PM if you want to continue this debate, but I don't think that anyone in the forum is benefiting from it beyond this point.

383backinblack

the point is, im not saying he should go with the 4.10's im just making it clear that it can be done quite easily without sacrificing driveability or performance.....in fact in most cases it would make a significant increase in performance.

as far as off roading goes, i work for JB motorsports which runs the Towasaurus wrex, boston big shot, and temprorarily insane monster trucks (we just acquired hammer time, and the witch doctor as well) theres a link in my signature, check out our website.

we deal with some pretty serious gearing, on the order of about 16:1 at the planetaries.

im not saying you're wrong here, dont take it the wrong way.....im saying that its not as simple and concrete as you made it sound

TKOPerformance

See, that's the funny thing. Nothing with cars ever really is concrete. Everything's a trade off. I never said don't do it. I just said I wouldn't. Somehwere along the line we got into an ego bout that took us off the topic, which was childish on both our parts, and for that I appologize.

I checked out that link too. Cool stuff. Serious hardware. I would guess you would need some serious gearing to move tires like that, even with mega horsepower.

383backinblack

the tires actually help it.....with the small (about 24") transport tires the truck wont move at all, because the gearing is too steep.....once you get those 66" tires on it rips

the ring and pinions are around 6:1 then the outer planetary takes it down the rest of the way

TH400's dont last very long though

TKOPerformance

What kind of axels do you run?

How much power does the motor make?

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I can say I have a T-5 with a 3.73:1 open rear. Came with the gearing stock. I wouldn't run 4.11's on the street, but that's me.

The 3.73's are about as steep as I'd go for street/strip use. So far as winding out 1st gear and going 60 MPH???? Not a chance with a T-5 unless you normally run it up to say, 8000 RPM's.

I keep mine at 5500 or below (street motor), and IF I wound it up to 5000 in 1st gear, MAYBE I would hit 30-35 MPH - but I'm 110% positive it'd be nowhere near 60!!! Most of the time, I don't even bother with 1st gear at all. I start in 2nd.

When I do use 1st, I usually end up shifting at around 2200 RPM's into 2nd before I even reach the other side of the intersection. I can't imagine with 4.11's.......I think it would be like a granite gear on the old trucks...of course you'd win every time in a race to see who can get to 10 MPH fastest...not my idea of "streetable", but everyone's different. Just my 2 cents.

BUT....keep in mind, I have an L69 car, so the gearing may be steep to begin with...

And what's a "World cup" upgrade kit???

383backinblack

410hp at the wheels on the dyno, and since then i picked up 5 mph in the 1/4 so probably around 430-440 now,

so in the 550 neighborhood at the crank

the rear is a moser 12 bolt with 33 spline alloy axles


hmmmm....are you talkin about the truck?

if so it doesnt really have axles like a car has, there are 2 shafts on each side, an intermediate, and the shaft that runs in the planetary......they are 30 spline i believe, but are about 2.5" in diameter....they dont break very often, your much more likely to break a planetary.

the motor makes about 1500hp....blown methanol 482 BB

383backinblack

i shift around 6400rpm if i wind it out.....its damn close to 60, because thats where i am at the end of the 60' at the track

m23haz

Well I have a T56 and 4.10's and my mileage isnt that bad at all....22-23mpg on the highway. Its at 2000 rpm at 70mph.

That being said though if I had to do it again I would get the 3.73's. The 4.10's are just a pain to shift in during everyday traffic. I mean I have to go into 6th if I want to drive under 2000 rpms at only 40mph Not to mention that 1st gear is just about useless with this tranny, gears and TPI.

383backinblack

i like mine the way it is.....and thats about all that matters really.

if you dont like to shift, why bother having a manual transmission in the first place......personally i like it that way

TKOPerformance

Planetary axels are cool.

I realized something rather important though. You engine combo is radically different from the guy that initiated the post. I don't think his 305 is going to take 6,400 RPM before a shift. You are able to turn more RPM, which in part allows you to run a steeper rear. He needs to keep that in mind, because he probably has to shift at 5,500 or less.

Not trying to restart an argument, I just realized that, and figured it might be useful to him.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

m23haz - That's pretty good milage considering the gears you're running.

With the upgrade kit in my T-5, I opted for the .59 ratio 5th gear. It made a HUGE difference on the highway....I run 1800 RPM's at 70. I don't drive it enough to check milage though, but I doubt I'd pull 22-23 MPG. I bet the 4.10's you have are a blast at the track though!!!

383 - You're right....that's all that matters. Uh...I like to shift through the gears, so I think I'll keep my manual tranny - Thanks.

I'm not trying to start any argument here 383...It would be kinda dull if everyone's car was set up exactly the same.

I think every one should be able to speak thier opinions, not that everyone will agree with them...but it's all good!! You've helped plenty on this board so I'm not taking anything away from you.

ede

my son has a friend with 4:10 gears in a 305 tpi 91 z28 with 700r4 and says it works fine and milage isn't really a problem

82CamaroZ28

Thats in 3nd gear, right??? Cuz with a 1st ratio of 3.27 and a rear of 4.10 even at 8000 RPM you would only be going around 46 in 1st....

http://www.f-body.org/gears/

AustinT

I have a zz430 in a 89 camaro with a holley 750 VS carb, T56 and 4.10 zexel torsen Posi. I get 22 mpg with my carbed setup. If I did it again I would go with the 3.73's First gear doesnt seem to low it just that you shift a lot. The other day I put a widband on the car and accelerated through the first four gears. On the replay on the computer I could see my shift points on the graph. The time between shift points was 2 seconds. I would only stay in a gear for 2 seconds at a time! You will probably be more happy with the 3.73's Im getting now where I shift from 1st-3rd-5th-6th and the motor does not even lug