DigitalMonarch0

I have been spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to cost-effectively get a good tranny to put behind my 383.

I have thought long and hard about buying a TH350 or a TH400 or even a 700R4 mega raptor... but they are all very expensive.

My buddy brought up a good point when we were talking the other night. He suggested that I look for a street/strip transmission master rebuild kit and do the work on an old 700R4 to save money.

My question is,

1) How hard is this to do
2) Are the rebuild kits any good?
2) Does anyone know where I can get a rebuild kit that will support 500+ RWHP?
3) Is anyone with experience willing to help walk me through it?

I need input here guys. I've managed to put in my own shift kit, but I've never replaced anything above the valve body.

Floor guy

The answer to all your questions is yes. Yes they are hard to do, yes good parts are available, yes they can be built to hold up, and yes you will get help from forum members. Pick up an atsg service manual for the year you are rebuilding(about $15). You will see what is involved and the special tools needed.

FndmntlsOfPimpn

My dad rebuilt his turbo400 from his chevelle on his own with just rebuild manuals but i have hread many extremly high quality mechanics say they wouldent evn touch an automatic trans its tricky work but it can be done

DigitalMonarch0

I do have an advantage,

My F-Body club's garage has four 700r4's sitting on the floor out of variuous applications. So it's not like I even have to have my tranny out to start working on it.

I guess I am just looking for a little reassurance.. or for someone to tell me that I am out of my mind.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Out of your mind IMO.

if you're gonna "load one up" I wouldn't trust anyone but a trained professional with lots of verified experience in the "hotter" versions (like ProBuilt, Raptors, etc.)

Now, having said all that, I've got to add I've never done one myself. I'll do an engine, but not an automatic tranny! (Probably not a manual, either!)

thirdgen88

I've built a few 700R4's... It can be done if you take your time... Just make sure to plan and organize.. You want to make sure you know exactly what modifications and improvements (ones that have been done and ones that need to be done) are ahead of you... Go slow and buy the ATSG manuals and do a lot of research.

VILeninDM

hey Pat, so you guys did chip in for a garage. Is it heated? Doing any work in there this winter?

Sorry don't have any useful info for you. I'll be rebuilding my T56 in a little while, but I heard auto's were completely different animals.

If you do decide to on doing this and need two extra hands to hold a wrench (or beer or whatever), let me know. I'd love to see how this is done.

This is my personal opinion, but unless you plan on building one car and selling all your tools right after that, I'd say the more you do yourself the better. Yes you can take it to a professional, but then next time (if it breaks, or a second car, or a friend) you'll just have to take it there again. If you do it now, later on you'll actually know what you are doing.

TKOPerformance

For 700R4s there is only one source as far as I'm concerned and that's Pro-Built. His rebuild kits use the best parts, based on his years of experience specifically with 700R4s. His kits are the most comprehensive, and upgrade the whole trans as a system instead of just making it shift harder and increasing line pressure for the sake of doing those two things. Many of the parts that TransGo offers were designed with his input, and by working directly with Gil Younger at TransGo.

Tough to rebuild by yourself? That is a heavily loaded question. Is it more difficult that rebuilding an engine properly? More difficult that rebuilding a rear properly? Probably not. If you're well versed in those types of jobs you can probably handle it. Would I attempt it as my first major automotive project? Definately not. Rebuilding and blueprinting a 700R4 is a delicate, time-consuming job. It is not for the faint of heart, or even for the local trans guy that churns out street/strip TH350s all day long. The 700R4 has a lot of its own nuances, and blueprinting anythign is time consuming and requires accurate measuring tools, and the ability to use them properly. Clenliness is also of paramount importance. Having a parts washer is a great asset,a nd drying everyhting with compressed air is a must. Don't use paper towels or rags. Lint can clog small passages and ruin the trans.

If you are serious about it plan on the rebuild taking about a month of your time working on nights and weekends. Plan on taking things apart and putting them back together a couple times to make sure they're right. Dana at Pro-Built will answer any question you have. Keep a notepad and pen handy when talking to him. His words are pure gold. Try to call with specific questions about specific assemblies. There is a thread in this forum that has some general instructions. Find it and print it out. Buy a Haynes or AGC manual and read it several times cover to cover before taking anything apart. Have enough space to lay components out, and only tackle one sub-assmbly at a time. Do the pump, and then set it aside. Do the valvebody and then set it aside. This will help you keep everything orderly otherwise you'll end up with a box of parts and sit there wondering which way some bearing went on. There are plenty of people here on TGO that can help you while your rebuilding too.

DigitalMonarch0

I am leaning towards trying it at this point.

I think that things are probably leaning in my favor considering that we have a bunch of 700r4's sitting on the floor of our garage anyways.

Not to mention that there are a couple of guys in my car club that say that they have rebuilt 700R4's before and would be willing to help if asked.

I have haynes manuals and such, can anyone recomend a good manual or reference that lays out the internals of the trans?

thirdgen88

The ATSG Manuals are essential..

brutalform

I remember when I would say the same words. Autos. seemed very intimidating. But just like anything else in our hobby, the more you learn about it , the less intimidating it actually is.

I recently had the opportuinity to assist in a 700r4 rebuild. Yes, it all looked greek to me but, as you get involved with it, and having an ATSG manual is a must, its really not much different than anything else you rebuild. A few tools are needed, and there are many specs. that cannot be overlooked.

DIY prom is a perfect example. Never in a million years did I think I would program a chip. I thought that was a "black art" for some super intelligent lifeforms. Until I began playing with a programmer and editor, Im now way more familiar with it all.

Im no professional in any thing I do with automobiles but, I think you get the point.

Now I can say, "The only thing I cant do, is align my front end". We might figure that one out too.

TKOPerformance

The Haynes manual I mean is a manula specifically about GM automatic transmissions. It covers all the popular ones (TH350/TH400/PG/2004R/700R4). It's got great pictures and step by step instructions. The ATSG manaul has more tech information though. Ideally get them both.

brutalform, I got sick of the local alignment shops screwing up the front end of my '67 Mustang, so I went out and bought a couple tools and now do all my own alignments. It's actaully very easy with the right tools and a modicum of knowledge. It's also great to be able to set the car up diffeently for autocross than for normal street use, and not have to pay each time.

brutalform

Thats cool TKO. My friends and I always joke about , alignments and inspection stickers , being the only reasons to go to a professional. If it was not for those, we would be total DIYers. LOL.

I hear ya. Install those new tires and get a new alignment, just to find out you were better off without one!

TKOPerformance

Yeah, most shops just check to see that everything is within factory spec. My pickup came back once with a 2 degree difference in camber side to side, which meant that there was also a slight difference in caster too. Most shops just ignored me when I'd say look: I want 1 degree of negative camber on the front wheels, 1/16" toe-in overall in the front, and as much positive caster as you can give me without deviating from those other specs. I'd get the car back with zero toe and zero camber. I felt like telling the guy "I appreciate that you're trying to make my tires wear evenly, but I burn through them so fast that the difference is negligible, and the car is much safer to drive with the specs I gave you."

On a car it's easy to set toe with a 6' piece of steel angle and two oil cans. You can do camber with an angle finder, and caster is just the difference in camber specs from full lock to full lock. There are also nice caster/camber gauages you can buy that make this job a lot easier and a bit more precise, but I've aligned all my cars with the stuff above and never had a problem. Trucks are too difficult to do this way though.

brutalform

I like to have my camber set at 0 degrees, and the toe in at 1/16 in.in, and with caster at 3 1/2 degree +. I have these specifications written down on a card, and I take it with me to the alignment shop. I tell the mechanic, that the car is used for drag racing, and I insist on these specs. When I get the readout from their computer, they are on it just as asked.

I use the "Pep Boys" skinny 165 15s on the front, at about 3 inches wide, believe it or not, these tires last almost forever.

BTW, I watched a friend do some sort of an alignment, using sticks and a nail driven in them. As he turned the elevated tire, the nail would scribe a faint mark in the center of the thread. I dont know what he was trying to accomplish, I really wasnt paying attention.

TKOPerformance

Those are good specs for a drag car. Zeroing the toe might be better, but with such small front tires it probably doesn't matter much. I run the toe in for high speed stability. For autocross I actually run about 1/16" toe-out. It scrubs off speed in the straights, but it dramatically improves turn-in on corner entry, which is crucial on a course that is mostly corners with maybe only one long straight where you barely top 60 MPH.

The nail and stick method works. I read an article not too long ago where they uses a piece of pipe and roll pins to do the same thing. In a pinch, with two people you can also use a measuring tape.

brutalform

Hmmm, Maybe next time Ill have to pay more attention! Thanks TKO.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Double post

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Takes about $1000.00 in tools to build a 700r4. You have to have a puller, spring compressor, bushing installers, seal protectors, etc. Other than that automatics are really less complicated than building an engine. That is my opinon though.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The bushing installers are the only real expensive must have item to do a complete rebuild. I had only 600 dollars or so to not only rebuild the trans but get a new front pump and TC. Needless to say, no bushing installers. Im sure that will come back to haunt me if I use the trans long enough. Other then that, I made all my tools from common items taht youd either find in your house or at the local hardware store. The only specialty tools that I bought where a set of snap-on snap ring pliers. Those are definatly a must for both the trans and the front pump/VB.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Did the same thing. They work very nicely together.

TKOPerformance

$1,000.00 worth of tools to build a 700R4? Maybe if you actually buy all of those J-tools mentioned in the rebuild manuals. The truth is that you don't need a single one of them. Here's a list of the tools you will definately need:

1.) Metric socket & wrench set (you should already have these...)
2.) Inside snap ring pliers ($20 for a really good set)
3.) Bushing drivers ($20 from Harbor Freight Tools)
4.) Dental picks (good for removing seals - $7)
5.) Feeler gauges (good for setting clearances and installing lip seals - $10-$20 depending on complexitiy & quality)
6.) Universal Auto Trans Clutch Spring Compressor ($45 if you shop around or hit the swap meets)
7.) Pump Guide bolts (cut the heads off two long bolts $2)
8.) Brass punch set ($10 from Harbor Freight)
9.) Punch set ($10 from Harbor Freight)
10.) Emory cloth #46-#600 gritt ($10 from Harbor Freight)
11.) Outside snap ring pliers ($20 for a really good set)
12.) Screwdriver set (you should have these already too)
13.) Seal puller ($7 from Harbor Freight)
14.) A power drill and bit index (you should have these already, and if not they should be easy to borrow)

That's about it. That's all you need to blueprint and rebuild a trans with Pro-Built's kit. Having spoken with Dana he doesn't use anything more exotic than the tools mentioned above. I get a total of about $154 assuming that you don't already have anything on the list that isn't a basic hand tool, and if you don't have any of those then you shouldn't be thinking about rebulding anything let alone a transmission. You will easily save way more than the cost of the tools by doing the labor yourself. Plus you'll find that those tools come in handy for a multitude of other car tasks down the road. You can never be too righ, too thin, or have too many tools!

jamesbern

I did my first one by myself and it turned out fine, now other people ask me to rebuild theirs. Don't be scared just go slow and lay everything on a bench the way it came out and you will have no problems. Most importantly be extremely clean.

TKOPerformance

Yes, cleanliness is next to Godliness. Even stupid stuff you wouldn't normally think about is dangerous to an automatic trans. Don't use rags or paper towels to dry anything. Use compressed air. Some of the passages are so small that they could be clogged by lint, and that would be a really dumb way to ruin a freshly rebuilt trans. Keep your work bench like an operating room. I always cover my workbench with multiple layers of newspaper, or old blueprints. Then when they get dirty, or soaked with oil I can just throw them out and lay down a fresh covering. It prevents the bench for becoming soaked with oil and covered with grime. A lot of oil is still left in these things, even after you drain the pan and pull the converter. Professional trans shops usually have a table that has a pan underneath and a metal grate top for dissasembly. This way the oil just goes through the grate into the pan. One of those would be nice, but it's unrealistic for most of us I think.