FatherSon82

My 17 year old and I just bought a very clean '82 without engine or tranny for $300. I know these things came with the TH200 which I understand is a piece of junk, and that the 84 and later models came with the 4L60. Will the 4L60 bolt right in, or will I have to make some modifications. Barring that, can anyone suggest a better tranny option for this car? Will a TH350 bolt in? Any help is very much appreciated.

This ad is not displayed to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!

Crayz9000

84-92 came with the 700R4, 93+ came with the 4L60 then the 4L60E. The 82 has the 200-4R (don't know why they chose those designations, really.)

It's a bolt-in. You could put in a TH350 if you want, or if you want overdrive a 700R4. Just make sure that it's a rebuilt 700R4 if it's an earlier model; they had some weak components in them that the later models fixed.

Or you could get a 4L60, but since the 4L60 is a rebadged 700R4 it's kind of pointless. The 4L60E is a better choice, but more expensive.

blyth18md

82 came with a 200c not to be confused with the 200-4r.

the 2004r is the transmisson that came in the grand nationals and i believe TTA's.

The 200c is a non-overdrive transmisson. A 3 speed, like a weaker brother to the th350-th400

As far as what will swap in, you have a few choices. You could use a th350, but since the cars were never produced with them you may be forced to purchase an aftermarket crossmember/torque arm. You can get tranny swap kits from Spohn.net, a forum sponsor.

You could also go to a 700r4 which you could use the crossmember and torque arm from a factory 700r4 car.

Paul D. '87 IROC 350 TPI

Use an '87 or preferably an '88 model up 700-R4 for the least amount of installation hassle. I believe the prev. comment about you guys needing a 700-R4 crossmember & torque arm is correct, but any reputable boneyard should have a book to tell you what'll fit. It's possible you could use one or the other that you already have.

I believe Car Craft had an article about how the 200-C's could be built to be pretty tough, but this is only for drag racing. They ain't gots no overdrive, which really sucks gas on the highway.

I had an '82 Z-28 (305 quadrajet w/a 200-C) before the '87 IROC (350 TPI w/a 700-R4). The '82 was turning approx. 2700 - 2800 rpms @ 65mph. You could watch the $$$ flying out of the tailpipe down the highway.

The IROC gets much better gas mileage on the highway (4-5 mpg - when I keep my foot out of it) at the same speed...

If you're gonna use it on the street/highway at all, you DO want the OD.

__________________
'87 IROC 350 T.P.I. (L-98) w/t-tops: K & N's, MAF minus screens, throttle body coolant bypass, 180 thermo, Accel H.O. coil & 8.8 mm wires, 24 lb. injectors, Edelbrock headers w/3" cat-back & Flowmaster, 700R-4 w/Transgo shift kit w/Corvette servo, Borg-Warner posi, Koni adjustable racing struts & shocks, Competition Engineering subframe connectors, Hotchkis performance strut tower brace, Aadco polyurethane sway bar bushings/link kits/control arm bushings, w/Sumitomo HTR 50-Z's (P255-50/ZR16's)

Bunker82

You understand correctly sir! Thing would die in a tricycle. I swapped in a TH350 when my TH200C bit the dust. Unfortunately, I didn't know any better and would have gone with a TH700 instead, had I known how easy a swap that would be. Spohn sells the TH700 swap crossmember for '82s. The driveshaft can come from any '84 and later auto thirdgen (or auto fourth gen for that matter). Plus little odds and ends, but if I were back in that situation I'd have a TH700 instead of my TH350. Not that the TH350 is bad, it has held up very well, but I'd really like OD with gas prices the way they are.

FatherSon82

Thanks for the responses everyone. This board is great. Here's what sounds like the best setup from what I am hearing.

Get a 700R4/4L60E from an 88 or later camaro if possible, preferrably with the driveshaft, crossmember and torque arm. (Aren't the 700R4 and the 4L60 the same tranny, just with different numbering?) If we do this right, it should just bolt in. Will I also need the shifter from the later camaro?

If we can't find that, then we can get a swap kit from spohn (how much are those, anyway?) and put a TH350 in.

Next question concerns the computer... Depending on which engine we put in this thing, will we need a different computer to use this transmission? If so, what's the easiest/best swap engine to look for?

Thanks again everyone, I'll try and post photos as we go.

Crayz9000

Yes, the 700R4 and 4L60 are the same. The 4L60E is a beefed up version of the transmission that I believe was introduced to handle the higher horsepower of the LS1. Could be wrong about the last part.

You'll probably need the shifter too. The main difference is the detents, and the plate: if it has a D with a circle on it next to D, then it's a 700R4 shifter with the overdrive selector.

As for availability, GM used the 700R4 in their entire rear-drive line, so it shouldn't be hard to find. It was used in the Camaro, in the trucks like the Suburban, and in the Caprice and Impala of those years (before they killed the Caprice and made the Impala FWD only).

SSC

No engine, no transmission usually means no useable wring harness. Does this have to pass any emmission checks?

Anyway, I'd suggest for a project car to keep it simple. See what kinda parts you can dig up for the car and work from there. If your going to be keeping the rear end ratio stock 2.73's I'd grab a TH350 for it since it wont be turning too may RPM @ 75. A TH350 would be far less work then attempting to patch somthing that doesent fit your 82 chasis without modification, a Short shaft TH 350 will bolt right in with a $80 tq arm kit.

__________________
1982 Firebird 350/700R4.
Crower Beast cam, RPM Intake, Edelcrap 1406 for the street, 14x3 open element air cleaner, Serpentine conversion, Carter rotary pump, Flowtech Headers 3" exh, cat delete with Ravin muffler. Modified B&M / Transgo shift kit with B&M cooler.

1995 Camaro T-tops 3.4l/4L60. Stock as can be.

five7kid

Even if you get all those parts, it won't quite just bolt in. The '82 chassis didn't forsee the longer transmissions that came down the road, and didn't have the crossmember mount holes needed for the farther back mounting. You can use the back bolt holes in the front holes of the crossmember, then match-drill the back two (ask me how I know this).
The Spohn unit includes a torque arm, and mounts to the crossmember instead of the transmission (the way it should have been done by the factory). It runs $395 (look under "parts catalog", "1982-1992 f-body", and "suspension" from their button above).

The TH700R-4 and 4L60 were the same transmission. The 4L60E incorporated electronic shift control - however, it was hardly "beefed up". Fellow racer rebuilds trannies at a Chevy dealership, spends about 75% of his time rebuilding those things - and he doesn't even do the remove/install.

__________________
See detail on my cars in My vBGarage

ME Leigh

A th-350 will pretty much bolt right in an 82. Everything will work, cross-member, driveshaft ...

__________________
LT1 headed LG4 305 beast! Comp Solid lifter XS-262-10S, 1.6 Roller Rockers, 10.2:1, Holley 4160 600cfm, modded Weiand 7502 intake to fit LT1 heads____ Custom cylinder head cooling. Weiand 8208 Short Water Pump____TH-350 3 series 3.73 with 2 series posi and spacer____ Hedman Hedders 1 5/8 headers and Y-pipe 3in Exhaust, Dynomax 3" Bullet muffler ____Moroso Ultra 40 Wires ACCEL HEI Super Coil ____Competition Engineering 3120 Bolt-on SFC's____Homemade: Wonderbar, solid tie rod sleeves, Aluminum LCA and Panhard Rod with spherical rod ends, alternator and PS bracket, Strut tower brace, and Decoupling torque arm with telescoping link.
3000lbs

"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."
-FDR

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."

-- President George W. Bush
During a photo-op with Congressional leaders on 12/18/2000.

Crayz9000

Whoops. Sorry, my mistake. I was under the impression that GM improved the design somewhat, I guess they didn't.

88Camaro350

I personally went from a 700r4 to a th350.

I do not know why but 700r4's just die on me. I gave up on them. I had one with 20k miles and a trans-go shift kit...it died last week.

So I ordered a TCI street fighter TH350. I think it should hold up. If you drive your car on the interstate a lot I would stay 700r4. If not I think th350s are the way to go.

Crayz9000

Well, if you're going to be throwing a hell of a lot of power at it, then a TH400 is the way to go. Those things are just brutes. Unfortunately they're also getting kind of expensive due to scarcity.

Apeiron

Not the torque arm, you'd still need a kit for it.

Apeiron

Expensive? Scarce? Hardly. You'd have to be making a whole lot of power to make the TH400 a better choice than the TH350 though. The TH350 weighs less and takes less power to turn, which means more power to the ground. Even though I wouldn't say TH400s are rare, TH350s are about as common as dirt too. Either one is still cheaper than a 700R4.

88Camaro350

I purchased a b&m changeover kit, tci street fighter th350, and a tork master 2400 stall for ~1200$.

I thought about ordering a pro-built 700r4 but I would have had to invest about 1900-2000$ after getting a TC. Even cheapo TC's like the tork master b&m series cost close to 300$. TH350 TC's are cheap.

I still think OD would be awesome but I do not drive my car on the interstate much...so it won't hurt me that bad.

383stroker90RS

hey bud i have a turbo 350 in mine and i like it all you have to do is get a spacer for the tail stock and get a tailstock from a 200r4 or a 700r4 any of your local transmission shops should be able to help you with the spacer and any of your local boneyards should have the cararo tail stocks you need that because of the torsion bar bolts they run through the tailstock of the tranny now if you are putting a v8 in the car with a coil in distributor you may want to move the engine mounts as forward as possible this will give you room for the distributor to fit back there but you will have to weld a 3/16 thick piece of flat bar to your torsion bar to reach the stirup for it on the tranny but you will not have to change the crossmember or the tranny mount at all being that it is an 82 i think those were still speedo cable driven so you will not have to change your gauge like i did good luck buddy been there done that
Russ

82knightrider

Wheres a good place to buy one of those kits.

Crayz9000

Check out the forum sponsors, particularly Spohn and Hawks.

blackbeauty

I've got an 82 TA and I put a 700-R4 from a 1989 Camaro in to replace the 200C and have never looked back. To complete the swap I had to get a different torque arm, shorter drive shaft (got an aluminium one) and I think I needed a different cross member. It all swapped right in except a little work needed doing to make the cross member attach to the car.

If you get a 700-R4 get one of the later ones as described above, but to make the swap a little easier get one from a Camaro because even in 1989 the speedos were still cable driven, like your car will be now. Trans Ams went electric in 1985. The other thing to consider is that your speedo may be off due to a different rear end. Changing the drive and/or driven gear in the transmission is a piece of cake to do, you just need to calculate what gears you need to buy, and they're cheap anyway.

I tried to install a later year shifter to my car but it's not a direct swap. There's a metal plate on the body of the car that interferes. I had my 82 shifter modified so I can select all gears. If you don't modify your shifter than you'll be able to select all gears except 1st. This may or may not be a problem for you.

I think the last thing to consider is a way to lock up the torque converter. I use a B&M lock up kit but if you want to a switch will do the job. When driving, don't lock up the converter too soon otherwise you will shorten its life.

Even though the 700-R4 install is a bit more work than a 350, you're only going to be doing this once and it's worth it. You get a transmission as strong as a 350 but has the advantage of overdrive and it has a numerically higher first gear which makes for fun launches! Later on I shift kitted it for a bit more fun.

Good luck

__________________
Right hand drive '82 Trans Am, 1989 305 TPI, 3.23 rear
Mods: shift kitted 700-R4 trans, aluminium driveshaft, custom subframe connectors, GTA electric seats, 36mm/24mm sway bars, boxed control arms, wonder bar
Engine mods: head work, plenum porting, 24lb SVOs, custom Lazer camshaft, true 9.5:1CR, PROMinator Pro, headers, 3" exhaust
Best ET: 14.37s@95.74MPH

BruceEmbry

The Shifter thing was cause you some headachs.


The shifter in the 82/83 Third-gen can be converted to handle the 700r4/4L60e etc..

Take a look at my post.
http://thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthre...hreadid=320127