Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Okay, it's in. Now for a couple leftover questions.

1. How do I add ATF with the trans installed?

2. As far as the speedo gears go, how do I swap a T-5 from an 84 Camaro into an 87 Firebird, that has the electronic VSS and speedo? I currently am running the stock gears from the 84, and, lets just say, I KNOW I'm not doing 50 MPH in the top of 1st...

maroon88iroc

iTrader: (7)

i would also like to know about the gears... i will be swapping in a 5 speed soon hopefully and i dont want it to throw off the speedo. i replaced the speedo gears in my 700r4 about a year ago and it was like $150 i dont want to have to do this again.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Still need to know about the adding fluid thing. I do NOT want to have to drop the trans again if I can avoid it.

As far as the gears go, the gear seems to be part of the VSS assembly (for the electronic speedo Firebirds, anyways). The red gear and another color are no longer available, however, there is still a light blue gear set available. The price is around $45, and it has a 255xxxxx part number, which seems to make it a sensor (my output shaft gear was only $9). The output shaft gear should not need to be changed--since for the 87 model year, GM only lists the purple gear and a red one having one more tooth (8 teeth versus 7)-- unless, of course, it is damaged (like mine was).

DodgeTech

There should be a giant alan bolt under there, one on the bottom and one on the side. I think its a T-17. Drain it through the bottom and fill it from the side. Fill it till the fluid comes out of the fill hole and WAIT till it stops leaking out then re-install the bolt. The tranny needs that breathing space and if you over fill the trans you will damage it.

As far as the VSS I'm not that sure. The cable drivin autos go right to the speedo itself, or some sort of sensor behind the MIC. As far as the electronic VSS, they are wired from the trans to the speed ratio adapter and the brake switch. The ratio adapter is behind the dash as well and uses pulse with modulation (if I'm not mistaken) to calculate speed. I don't think you need the PCM (ecu) to calculate this. I believe they have info on the swap in the tech acticles.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

First off, thats with the trans removed. You can't get a funnel in there to add fluid with the trans in place, and I am NOT dropping the trans again just to put some ATF in it.

Second, the VSS itself is the pulse wave generator. It sends the signal to the buffer box (the yellow box on the ECM bracket for those who have one), which sends two different signals, one to the ECM, and the other to the speedo, respectively. There is no speed ratio adaptor, as the only way to modify how many pulses come out of the VSS is to change the drive and driven gears, the drive gear on the output shaft, and the driven gear on the VSS, respectively. The drive gear is the same for most 87 F-bodies, and that would be the purple 7-tooth. The red one has 8 teeth. It is the driven gear that gets changed according to rearend ratios, and there are 4 of those.

The tech article on speedo gear swaps is only for the THM-700R4 (auto trans) and doesn't help with my T-5 manual install...

Apeiron

Use a pump then.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Yes, use a pump, or add tranny fluid thru the shifter location. That takes longer, though.
For your speedo question, are you asking about an 84 car or an 87 car? The hole is the same for the cable speedo and the electronic speedo, and you can remove one and put in the other with no problems. The drive gear on the tailshaft is the same, but the driven gear is different.

chads89ta

iTrader: (6)

if you have a small garden sprayer, take the tip off, yuo should be good to go

DodgeTech

Err... The t-5 in my truck uses a ratio adapter thats why i mentioned it. I figured its got to be somewhat similar in the fbodys since they are both electronicly controlled. The way you explained it is what i was shooting for... in so many words. The colored gears are external or are they in a box? In the service manual they call it a speed ratio adapter. My GM lingo is a little rusty for obvious reasons. Pule with modulation is the same as pulse wave generator, just different lingo. Obviously theres got to be some way to fill the trans when its installed.... you honestly think techs drop the trans for a drain and fill when you go in for service at the dealer? We snip the top of the cap off the bottle and stuff a vacuum hose and the end and squeeze it in through the hose...

TKOPerformance

You can dump the fluid in through the shifter hole before you install the shifter. That's the easy way. They take 3 quarts.

Another option is to use a pump.

Another option is to use a long hose connected to a funnel and sit the funnel in the engine compartment and fill it like that.

I've done all three, and the first is the easiest.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Okay. I have the fluid in, but I can't seem to find where I'm losing it..

Second, I am still having a little trouble locating a T-5 speedo driven gear (as GM calls the blasted thing) that is the right color for my 3.42 rearend. For some reason, the idiots at the dealer ordered (and made me pay for one!) 2 different 700R4 driven gears, neither of which fits the friggin hole in the tail housing... I just got back, and after SHOWING them what I need, I hope they got it right this time. If not, then I'll have 3 of the friggin things to sell, if anyone needs them.

TKOPerformance

T5s can only leak fluid from a few places. Typical culrpits are the input shaft seal and the tailshaft seal. If the trans was rebuilt recently the tailshaft to maincase junction is another area that can leak. If you don't prop the maincase at and upwards angle prior to installing the tailshaft housing you can end up wiping the silicone off on the workbench or getting a piece of a rag or something else from the bench top stuck between the two halves. This can often cause a leak.

Speedo gears are always fun to find. My local dealership does a lot of high performance stuff, so they have this stuff in stock because it is always needed after a rear gear swap. Just one of the ways that I'm lucky I guess.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, I have all the holes patched except one. I probably should get a new maincase, however, I don't have the time for that crap again.

I rebuilt the trans by hand due to the fact that the case was messed up and the repair shop wouldn't take it unless it was a bare case, and due to the fact that the trans had been sitting for so long in the yard with who the heck knows how many miles on it. I made sure all of the case components were assembled properly with lots of sealant, most of which oozed out and had to be removed with a razor blade.

TKO, would it possible for you to snag me a speedo driven gear for a 3.42 rearend? The dealer has fallen apart on me for the third time now. They gave me just a gear for the 700R4, and I told them that it just won't fit in the dang hole... I have the sensor, but still need the gear...

Jay

iTrader: (2)

I can't remember but I *think* you can use the driven gear from a mechanical speedo sender for the electric. I am pretty sure I that's what I did with my old IROC, but that was years ago now.
According to calculations based on a 26" tire you would need a 18.5 tooth driven gear. So pick your poison, 18 or 19 t

Manual & Automatic Transmission Parts they sell the driven gears.

ok according to my service and part manual the driven gear would be 19T white
2 part numbers listed:
14090580 = gear w/ shaft, sleeve, seal GM LIST: $47.75 (gmpartsdirect.com)
14090592 = gear w/ shaft GM LIST: $24.92 (gmpartsdirect.com)

oh one other thing, my parts manual list the driven gears as being purple = 7 and red = 9

TKOPerformance

The purple and red gears are correct. These are the most common in these transmissions. Occassionally you will see a green one, but not sure of the tooth count. Typically I'm just pulling them off and then putting the back on when I'm reassembling the trans. I don't have access to them that's any better or easier than that which was given by Jay.

Quicc Silver Z

I also took off tha shifer to put gear fluid in...Its going to leak at first, then after a couple of miles of drive it will stop...unless its leak from tha rear seal. I'd use 85w, and it come in a brownish lookin color also...red, purple etc..

TKOPerformance

You don't want to use 85w gear oil in a T5. Especially a WC T5. These run in ATF. Gear oil will ruin them.

Quicc Silver Z

Well I put tha normal (red) gear oil in, about 2 1/2 quarts and fill tha rest up with 85w....it works fine wit my T5. It was just to make tha fliud a lil thicker.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Thank you! That was just what I was looking for! I just ordered one from the Gear Box, and hopefully will have it soon. No more using the tachometer as my speedo! That's a real PITA, especially if you are in between X0 and X5 MPH, where you can't tell what RPM you should be running at to maintain a certain speed.

BTW, you can't use the mechanical cable gear for the electric speedo. You will have to cut the cable adaptor off and drill a hole in the EXACT middle of the gear to adapt the gear to the electronic VSS. If the gear is slightly out of shape (for whatever reason), then your speedo bounces up and down over a range of about 3 MPH at 60, not to mention mine reads 9 MPH off at 60 (69 MPH reading at 60), and there is a good probability of cracking the gear (done that too)...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Okay, back to this thread:

It's been a while. I went out two weeks ago and bought a replacement tranny, since the 84's maincase was shot (couldn't hold ATF) and the tailshaft seal kept leaking around the OD (still can't figure that one out, I even used sealant), and got one from an 85 Firebird. Now, I apparently have the correct speedo driven gear (had to switch over the electronic VSS), and this trans actually hold ATF. Now, the problem remains: The speedo STILL reads 73 at 60 MPH. Do I need to go out and get the RED drive gear, since I KNOW I have the right driven gear? I am not 100% sure on this, but in the other trans, I was running the purple gear and the speedo was high, and this trans is doing the same thing, except for the fact that the speedo doesn't bounce now. Assuming I have the 7-tooth drive gear (the purple one, IIRC), wouldn't I need the 9-tooth (red gear) to get the speedo to read properly?

BTW, a part number would be appreciated...

PyRo9862

Get a squirt cap off a gear oil container. It also fits on a standard oil/atf container. Use that to fill it.