Termanalor117

Hi,

Just bought this 1991 Pontiac Firebird GTA and its got a Borg Warner T-5 5-speed. The car has some problems when it comes to shifting. Sometimes the car will not shift down and other times it wont allow me to put it in gear at all. In third gear i will go to shift into it and it will grind and than not allow me to shift into it at all. Sometimes I can pump the clutch and than it will fix this stuff but not all the time. I am about to pull the tranny and put all new syncros in it but any ideas of what else could be wrong or what else I should replace?

Thanks

jmd

iTrader: (4)

There's a bleeder atop the slave cylinder.

Just like brakes needing bled regularly, so does the clutch hydraulic system.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The problem is NOT THE TRANSMISSION.

DO NOT take the trans apart to try to fix it; you will be wasting your time and taking unnecessary risk of disturbing things best left alone.

The problem is THE CLUTCH. One way or another, THE CLUTCH AND THE CLUTCH ONLY.

It's not impossible that the hydraulics need to be "bled"; however it IS almost impossible for air to just up and insert itself in there all by itself out of the clear blue. I would also suggest that you LEAVE THAT ALONE. It absolutely DOES NOT require "regular bleeding", any more than brakes do; the ONLY time it could EVER POSSIBLY need that, is if someone has recently disassembled the system and thereby allowed air into it, just like brakes. They don't just generate their own air bubbles out of thin ..... nothing. While not "impossible" that this is the root cause of your problem, it IS highly unlikely.

More likely, it is one of 2 things.

Either it needs a pilot bushing / bearing, which is this part here, in the center of the crank;



Or, someone has just done a clutch swap, and assembled the throwout bearing incorrectly.



Since you just bought it, I'd suspect someone has has his paws in it, and you'll ultimately find that it has the 2nd problem, with the throwout improperly installed on the fork.

Fix it ASAP, because even though it's not a transmission "problem" as such, it IS damaging the trans NOW; every time it grinds, it chews up a little more metal and turns it into chips and fills the fluid with it so that it does further damage to other parts besides just the ones that grind. The longer it goes on, the more tore up the trans will get; and eventually it WILL reach a point where it needs work. More than just a "rebuild".

Termanalor117

Thanks for the reply's!

Really? Are you sure, its not that I think your wrong but I just bought a 200 dollar tran jack and was about to start the work. I was planning to replace the clutch as well but are you sure it just needs this clutch adjustment and bearing? I talked to a transmission guy, not saying he is a reliable source, and he said it was the syncronizers?

If it were just the clutch, I still have to pull the tranny anyways right? And where are these pilot bushing / bearing and where can I buy them?

Thanks!

built91Z28

With the car sitting still, engine running, can you go into all gears with no grinding? Clutch pushed in obviously.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The problem is NOT THE TRANSMISSION, it is the clutch.

Yes a trans guy will always tell you it's "synchronizers", because 99.99% of the general public has not the vaguest clue what those are but they sound expensive and important so they'll usually OK the quote, allowing him to make out like a fat rat in a cheese factory by doing about a tenth as much work and still successfully fixing the problem.

Yes you have to drop the trans to get to the clutch.

Ummmm....

You can buy them at auto parts stores. You can also get them at Summit and such. For example http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=pilot+bearing+chevy

Termanalor117

Ok, well I took the transmission apart anyways, two servos needed to be replaced so I did that, everything else was fine. I did that and replaced the clutch as well as the pilot bearing. Still have to put it all back together. I will let you know how it went and if it was successful!

rs89todd

i have had that problem many times, and ill pass on my secret. the tabs on the clutch fork, try to pry each side up more like 1/8 inch and give it a good cleaning and grease all your contacts points for fork and bearing assembly. its not the pilot bushing mine got beat to f*ck when i put it in and after i pulled everything apart 3 times im finally more than satisfied with the outcome. just take your time and do it right the first time

Termanalor117

Ok well I took the car out for a drive today. Works fine, I think I need to bleed the clutch release cylinder a couple more times but everything shifts up and down now so that is very good! Thanks for all the help.

As for the clutch fork secret, I do appreciate it but it works fine so I don't feel like taking it all apart again... lol I had actually ended up replacing the entire clutch fork since a pivot part was broken on it. So it is nice and new anyways!

limegreencamel

Would all of this apply to the problem i have? My 5th gear recently decided to start grinding, can't go into it. However, i can sometimes shift to 5th in the streets (like 40-45 mph on flat road) and when parked with the clutch depressed. When on the freeway, there is almost no chance of getting into it. Just terrible grinding that i want to avoid for obvious reasons.
So is this clutch bleeding, pilot bushing, or that throw-out bearing? i was also told it was a syncro, so i'm lost.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

If it's 5th ONLY, and all the others are PERFECT, then it could be something internal; but if ALL of the gears are affected, and 5th is just "the worst", it's probably the clutch or related parts.

A quick clutch test would be, while sitting still, push in th eclutch and put the car in a forward gear; then, while holding the clutch pedal down, put it in neutral; hold the clutch and wait about 15 seconds; then without letting the clutch pedal up, put it into reverse. If it grinds, you have a clutch problem such as pilot, bleeding, etc.; if not, the clutch is probably not the cause of the grinding.

The fork won't just up and change itself out of the clear blue and cause stuff like this to miraculously appear. That's only a potential issue if the car has just been worked on. It can break, of course; but that's pretty rare, and usually isn't hard to figure out that something is DRASTICALLY wrong.

When the throwout bearing fails it usually makes noise - LOTS of it - when the clutch is pushed, and often makes the pedal pulsate.

limegreencamel

When i was learning to drive it, 3rd was grinding a lot but that only happened to me. Reverse often grinds as well though, but 5th does it to the point where i can't use it. So it's probably internal?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What did the test I gave you show?

subroc

iTrader: (2)

reverse gear grinds because it is NOT syncronized. In other words if you want to go to reverse quickly...you must put it into one of the forward gears and then into reverse. Either that or hold the clutch in for 3-5 seconds to give the trans enough time to stop moving and then put it into reverse.

irocarter

iTrader: (1)

What do mean 5th gear isn't synchronized?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

5th is synchronized.

It's reverse that's not.

limegreencamel

After starting my car (which takes 3 cranks but that's another story..), i did your test and reverse didn't grind. All of the gears were perfectly smooth. As for giving 5th time, i do that but it still grinds. Starting to think this is going to be an expensive repair that i can't afford.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Um...yea..i had a serious brain fart. Ignore my post and continue. DOH!

L695speed

If it is the synchro, you might be able to get away with it for a bit. I don't know how the T5 reacts to it as I never had a problem with mine, but we have an 86 MR2 with a 5 speed stick. 2nd gear has a totally blown synchro. Been like that for a long time now. I discovered if you take it easy on the shift and transition from 1st to second, you don't grind the gear. Have you tried that on the 4-5 (or 3-5 skipping 4th) shift? It is possible you might not have to have it dealt with right away.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

The other thing you could do is double clutch 5th gear only. It basically skips the use of the syncro entirely and makes it like your driving a trans with no syncros (think 18 wheeler). So when u want to go to 5th shift it out of 4th into neutral and let the clutch out in neutral...then push the clutch in again and push it into 5th.

I would have to do this with an old subaru i had when it was really cold outside. The gear oil in the trans would take so long to warm up that it would grind those gears otherwise.

As for my other post above...i should make a rule with myself that i cant post before 7 cause apparently the brain is not functioning. Anywhere i said 5th in that post i meant reverse.

L695speed

^^^ Forgot the double clutch method too. I've done both with that bad synchro on second gear in the MR2. Try both methods before deciding what to do.

limegreencamel

Sadly, the double clutch method doesn't seem to do anything for me. 5th is just hell bent on grinding. Haven't tried skipping 3-5th, though. Hopefully that'll work, i can't exactly be blazing along in 4th on the freeway for long.
All of the advice is appreciated though. Maybe i'll just take out the trans and try to fix it myself...both of which are difficult since i'm quite inexperienced. But can't pay like $1,500; so i don't have much of a choice haha

3rdGenMess

Alright this is off topic, but I wanted to post this in a transmission thread. My transmission feels like I'm double clutching on accelerations and pretty much in the lower rpms especially 6th gear...I was thinking it could be the transmission mount, but its the same mount I had with my automatic...any ideas????