FbodTrek

I was rather amazed to see some dyno results from Forced Fed Fabrications today. The guy spoken of before (Tiago) over at FirebirdV6.com, has a boosted 3.4 showing some rather impresive numbers. http://www.camarov6.com/ubb/ultimate...c;f=4;t=001580
FOr 2800 bucks, it sounds like a very feasible route to power (even though the kit is for a 4thgen). The have a post with a turbo runnin low boost beating an LS1, that's pretty sweet. I suppose I need to hit the lottery, hurry up DOward!

dennis6

A blower just sold on ebay for the 2.8. It was an old B&M unit, final price was 51 dollars.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2476925546

Doward

I keep preaching that these things respond to boost very positively! A little more time, fellas!

br()bert

). The have a post with a turbo runnin low boost beating an LS1,
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$2800
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LS1
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Im not saying anything else, people might get mad.

FbodTrek

Come on Brobert, it's not too expensive. I looked for a used LS1 for a buddy, they are usually over a grand. I suppose it's cost effective enough.

Xophertony

ls1=gas guzle
2.8/3.1 running 12 lbs of boost = gas guzzle
2.8/3.1 w/turbo running 1-3 lbs of boost while on the street during normal driving (not racing aN LS1) = fuel economy

im not going to say anything else. people might get mad

br()bert

the ls1 will last longer and respond better to mods cheaper than the 60* v6 ever will. Mod for Mod the 60* will always be a dog.

You want fuel economy go buy a geo metro.


Fbodytreck ,

Yeah running ls1's are mostly over 2800. I wasnt referring to use the 2800 to buy a ls1. I was thinking 2800 could get you a create motor and a nitrous kit easily!

I could see fabbing up your own turbo in your spare time, what do you got to lose? Maybe a blown 60*, but spending 2800 for something to put on a 60* is nuts.

AM91Camaro_RS

brobert, spend your 2800 on a LS1 then. some of us enjoy messing around with the v6s. if we want to, let us; if you want a v8 swap, do it.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

your an insperation to all of us

br()bert

nah, if i had 2800 to do a swap it wouldnt be spent on an ls1.

br()bert

Thankyou i try, Its funny how v6 guys talk about moddind a puny 60* and beatting a v8.(which opens discussion on both motors i think) but as soon as someone speaks on the other motor one of you always gets mad.

BTW i was at a junkyard with z28 guy today getting a torque arm. It was amazing to see 28 f bodies out of 30 being v6's!


imo there never is gonna be a market for 60* turbo's or performance parts. Take a look around, junkyards cant even get rid of them.

pasky

I did the v8 swap, and im done with it, I don't come in here and tell everyone to follow my lead. These guys obviously stick to the v6 for a reason, they must like it, no one likes to hear someone come in and say "Swap in a v8, it'll be a lot better than all that work your doing", no one cares mod for mod if it beats a v8, they've explained this over and over, thier working with the 3.1 because they WANT to not because its economically feasible, not because it will become the fastest thing out there. Just drop the whole v8 thing =/. I would be getting pretty damn aggravated if someone came in every post about the power I made with my v8 and told me "Drop a v10 in, mod for mod it will beat the v8" and so on and so forth. Put a damn nail on that coffin already.

br()bert

I have never said that, you can jump down off of your soap box now. BTW dropping a v10 in an fbody really is no place near as easy as a v6 to v8 swap so that subject needs a nail in the coffin.
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no one cares mod for mod if it beats a v8
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I didnt say they did, all i said was once a v8 engine is brought up i think that opens up discussion on each engine.

By the looks of your reply you must still have some bitter v6er blood in ya.

pasky

Sigh, no I just respect the work of others.

br()bert

As do I .

Doward

Oh man, just drop it br()bert. Seriously. Maybe we actually like the V6. Maybe it isn't all that 'puny' like you keep saying.

See, people are getting mad, because you are talking down to all of us trying to actually DO something, rather than follow the sheep, and toss in a V8. I seriously applaud the guy doing the 3800 swap - that's different. The V8 thing has been done to death. And you talk about 28 out of 30 fbodys being V6? Do you know how hard it was to find a 3.1?? EVERY Fbody I've come across, except for like 2, were 305 TBI. Now that is a dog of a motor. Any of us V6ers with a stick shift can hang with the 305 TBI, stock for stock. If we v6ers have 'puny' engines, what does that say about the 305? That it totally sucks, because a V6 can keep with it? No, you can mod the 305, and you can mod the V6, and you can mod a freakin Honda to outrun any of them, but who cares? It comes down to what YOU want out of YOUR car.

Personally, I want to have my cake, and eat it, too. I want 400rwhp, and 25+ mpg. Can it be done with a turbo V6? You're damn right. Can it be done with a V8? Sure. But price a T56, 3.42, and LS6 vs a turbo 3.1

TechSmurf

I've been rather quietly watching this thread and waiting for some sign of improvement, but it's obviously not happening. Brobert, I don't suggest you try to come back on what I'm about to say unless you do some serious review on your recent posts.. you're digging full time already. You're acting just like the V8 guys who used to come around here regularly to poke fun and laugh at the V6 guys. Get off your "I've got a V8 and it's better" high horse or quit posting on the V6 board while some of us still respect you.

FbodTrek

Brobert's just trying to validate his point, I respect that. I just rather hear the spooling of a turbo (got a few V8 buds that would like to as well). I get to maintain my fuel economy (which I could usually care less about), as long as I'm not under boost. And, I'd be fabbing my own, the actual turbine/compressor is where the main expense is in turbo kits, I'd prefer a used one. Tiagos kits (and I'm not advocating use of them!), utilize the stock exhaust manifols, which is a big plus to me. I imagine that's why they cost as little as they do. I'd really PREFER a bolt on supercharger to bolt in place of the AC compressor, a V-belt driven one. I could care less about having more than 5 psi of boost, I'd like my motor to last for a bit. I'd love to do a turbo setup, but I just got hedders (which still don't fit....yet), and messing with exhaust piping is annoying now . I dunno, maybe I'll hit the lottery and if I can get a few grand, I'll go turbo.....

85f-bird

thats pretty impressive to say the leat on the little six beatin an LS1 car. LS1 cars are mighty quick (high to mid 13's normally, a tad modding, and they get down to the low end of it) A now ex-friend of mine has one in his 92 maro, car's scary fast, don't respect the guy much anymore, however the car and the build on it was exceptional. Also, they tend to get pretty decent gas milage, wouldn't expect anything less than the six atleast, definately nothing less than what a v6 thirdgen pulls, normally a tad more 28 or so w/ the six speed.

2800 bux could get you a crate engine, just but by the time ur finished getting the crate motor, you'll be buying a transmission to plae behind it, if the crate engine is worth it's weight (which would have to mean being able to beat an LS1 powered car) you'll be needing over 300horses, alright, consider it done), but we'll stick w/ the idea that we can get the engine for 2800 bux, then the transmission will definately need a rebuild, and after spending the full 2800 bux we had budget on an engine, we'll need to pamper what we put in the tranny, so say we can snag a GOOD rebuild for 500 bux, say 400 bux w/ the tranny out (no labor on install/removal) then we're off to the races....setup motor mounts, get accesories, decide what you want to keep, mod, or ditch (AC?) then work your way on to other things. The beauty of course is that the sbc came in the birds/maros and as a result, you can find the parts for them very easily, and often pretty damn cheap, but if you consider the price of it all....

TurboSix=2800 bux + Misc. Junk that was forgotten or goes bad

SBC Crate= 2800 bux (don't know what type of crate that'll buy you) +400 on tranny rebuild say + 100 on tranny, and give another +100 on Misc. Parts (scavenging v8 f-body parts from bone yards)

LS1 Swap=3000-4500 Engine/Tranny Combo pull out, w/ wiring harness, Couple Hundred on mounts and tranny mount modification parts persay the kit on the sponsor site, it'd still be the most expensive swap of the group.

And the total sum of all things, despite the fact that a v6 isn't exactly "economical" on fuel, or that an LS1 is, comes the truth that neither engine is a hybrid, so what's the difference, they're all ole' pushrod designs (proven true for performance, but still old) It'll be a tossup as to whcih would get better gas milage, and although i know that you don't think that it's all that important brobert, but reality is that for $2.00 a gallon many people in this country are going to be wanting performance on an "economical fuel consumption budget" while we can say the "If you want fuel economy go by a geo metro", we can also say that all out mad crazed TQ and HORSEPOWER numbers aren't going to appear w/o losing some of that fuel economy, and many people aren't willing to see that go away.....my conclusion?

The turbo kit isn't overpriced, you can say that he's overcharging for the amount of work that he's done for the kit, or that he's overcharging for (whatever you choose) but, for the price, the kit makes sense both economical and productivity wise, and yes, if you wanted, and you had a v8 in your car already, and you spent 2800 bux on a turbo kit for it, the car would whoop the **** off a 'PUNY' v6 w/ the same setup....(wow, no one'll argue w/ it)

br()bert

You're acting just like the V8 guys who used to come around here regularly to poke fun and laugh at the V6 guys.
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Actually no im not, If you think about it you guys with the exception of a few are acting like them guys. Its all fun and merry to talk about moddind a v6,fine.Talk about beatting a v8, but as soon as someone talks about modding the v8 you get all bent out of shape. I have never

Started a thread to bash a v6

Told anyone "dude drop a v8 in it"

Told anyone " dude your an *** for modding a v6"


Or anything else to that matter. IN FACT i have even PMED a member to sort out a discussion that went wrong.

I dont poke fun or laugh at anyone, Im just discussing the subject and whats brought up like everyone else, only difference is i may not be on the bandwagon. So before anyone replies to this i hope you understand what im saying, dont take anything personally, and remember opinions are like you know whats... what i say is MO , You dont have to agree with it.

Maybe ill just drop it anyway because honestly it seems to me all some of you see when I post something is ...

Blah blah blah and translate it into, "HES PICKING ON ME"

I have a v6 remember? I have been to the point of looking at the little performance parts availible for it. Im not some v8 guy living in a trialor coming in here to start a fight.

One thing i do agree is the sound of a turbo does sound cool

br()bert

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doward
[B]
And you talk about 28 out of 30 fbodys being V6? Do you know how hard it was to find a 3.1??


Theirs a yard here, its not in Philly but its close by. Seriously 28 out of 30 were v6's, no 3.4's but 2.8's mostly and some 3.1's.

And just a question, if i never bought the v8 would you still think i was talking down to you? I dont think so. Just the fact that im doing a v6 to v8 swap makes me the bad guy, and anything i say instantly offends people on the v6 section.

And once again i say this, i never said i wanted a ls1,ls6 or even a lt1 for that matter.

Good luck with the turbo.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

However you get power, and however much you spend, as long as you enjoy it who really cares? Sadly I found out today that my friend who was going to sell me the nitrous setup for dirt cheap sold it to someone else because he forgot he promised it to me, and my dad completely forgot to bring the turbo setup down and isn't willing to ship it down to me....after I already started working on fabbing up some new exhaust pieces.

So, I'm out of the cheap methods. Guess it's time to start saving every penny I can to get some form of power adder...probably a nitrous job this time around and a turbo next time. Start saving the little pieces here and there for it.

Got boost?...not yet and not for a while.

br()bert

damn that sucks. Try ebay? I know some people seem to be smoking something when you look at their prices but its worth a look.

Ovrclck350

I'll say something that will **** you off, the LS1 will get better gas mileage than the 2.8/3.1 on or off the boost.

28-32 HWY and 20-22 City is very good gas mileage for an F-body.

pasky

The highwat milage is correct but the city is more like 18-19. Ask anyone on the ls1 forums.

'84TA w/L69

I can truly say that my 'puny' 3.1 in my '92 firebird will always outrun my 'mighty' L69 305 v8 in my '84 trans am...but i will also say that both are extremely fun to drive...as well as work on...and if you want an awesome v8...you will end up spending about as much cash on its mods as you would on mods for the v6...and if you are worried about economy...follow my lead and buy 2 thirdgens...

br()bert

I was gonna say the LS1 gets better mileage but comming from me it would be translated to "hes picking on me"

br()bert

Uhm, no but nice try. Take a look at the performance market for v8's then take a look at the performance market for v6's (if you can find anything for the v6). Performance parts for the v8 are all over and cheap. You have to hunt down stuff for the v6 IF you can find anything at all.

Just about every exhaust mft makes headders for a v8. How many make them for a v6?

Starting with a 350 i already have i can open a jegs/summit book and have 400 hp and tq out the butt for a small amount of money.

Can you do that with a v6?

Someone posted a turbo kit for a v6 that was 2800 to get a 3.4 to what 300 somthing hp?

I could get those numbers out of a 350 with $500 EASY, I'D LOVE to see what i could get out of it with $2800!!!!

Sure its fun to mod whatever you drive, its your car do with it as you like . But the statement you made is false.

Oh, i made a mistake, it wasnt even 300 something hp! 290 was the correct number!

pasky

But guess what, once you in the v8 crowd, guess who your heads up against? Thats right, more v8 guys. And $500 in mods ain't gonna get you jack against the guys running ported heads and a custom grind cam. Good luck with that . Its not so much that its cheaper, but that v8 mods is readily available.

Oh and i'd love to see you hit 290 rwhp with just $500 on your 350 using a L98 carb setup. Even throwing in a cam won't do that and heads ain't cheap. Quit talking out of your ***.

br()bert

Paskys bitter v6 blood speaks again. Id refrain from the rude comments if i were you. This is a mature discussion and if you can not speak like a mature adult i think you should go to your room, stick a T shirt on your head and play ninja man.


BTW WE were speaking on the price to mod a 6 and an 8. No one said anything about v8 agianst v8. So keep your left feild comments to yourself.


I didnt notice his numbers were rwhp. Your right with only $500 it would be hard to get 300 rwhp but i sure as hell could surpass that number easily with the $2800 mentioned above!!!

pasky

No, it just seems to me ever since you got your v8 its the next best thing since sliced bread. Its really not much different from the v8 world. I've put about 1200 into my engine and im hoping to hit 305rwhp, thats starting off with 35 more hp than the l98. $2800 bucks and seeing a 128 HP increase, thats one hell of a bang for your buck. Oh and get this part, wanna take a crack at how much a blower costs for a V8? 3k+ for a 4.5 PSI setup, OMG?!

How could this be?! No way that modding a v8 is more expensive than a v6, GASP! Oh my! And look, .5 less boost for the v8.

Im not even gonna get into turbo, im pretty sure a v8 turbo is a pain in the *** because it will be custom, engine room sucks with just regular headers I can only imagine fabbing turbo headers and finding a place for the turbo, my crap is already cluttered.

Im a gear head, not a v6 fan. I really could care less, but I know when someone is talking about something they have no idea about. When you start modding your v8, tell us your numbers and then tell us how much $ it took to get there, then we'll talk.

TechSmurf

This is skewed so far off topic at this point... end of discussion.