KED85

HI Everyone
I was directed to this one site and told to scope out a certain section.
This is a Vortech design of a radial supercharger attached to front of a 1993-1995 3.4 engine package.
This looks almost identical to the 3rd Gen V6 Paxton design of the 1990's.
To help all, here is the website & again the price is $3500. With only $1,000 for options (boost pulley & larger injectors).

http://www.rsmracing.com/catalog.htm

Find Pontiac & seek out Firebird section.

kretos

well, this looks to have some promise, good find ked

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

will this supercharger work on a 3.1?

TransAmMike

yea, ive been told that almost all muscle car parts are interchangeable. how true is this?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

80hp and 75tq for 3500. I'm not impressed.

But it is nice to see more parts for our engines

KED85

IF you do the math, those numbers for a 207 Cubic Inch engine are decent numbers

165HP
+80HP
Equals
245 HP

200Foot Pounds
+75Foot Pounds
Equals
275Foot Pounds

Cost is $3500, yes, pricey!
BUT that does get ya into V8 territory, ya know!

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

thats sweet, its nice to know ill have options when i finally get my 3.4 done

Doward

Hmm... non-intercooled, and for $600 less you can have 35 more hp, and 60lbs/ft more torque?

Please don't think I'm biased, but hey - it's good to have options!

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

yes very true.....but by time i can afford one of the two power adders no telling what will be available....you may no longer offer turbos cheap , not to mention as far as i know at the moment, you havent gotten to turbo a 3.4 so....i really only have one option so far lol

just messing with ya

RTFC

Please tell me why in the hell it costs $3500 for a supercharger, yet you can buy a complete motor brand new fo about $1700 that is much larger and much more sophisticated with many many more parts inside?

I can never figure this out. What a ripoff

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Cause its $1600 or so for the blower head unit alone, add to that R&D time for the bracketry, tensioner, materials to fab the bracket and pulleys, the cnc time, the piping, etc for a small production part, meanwhile if GM can tell a manufacturer that it wants 4,000,000 of one part, its going to get pretty cheap.

Xophertony

what he said.

random V8 guy: if it's going to take 3,500 to put you in v8 teritory why not just spend 3500 on a v8?

me: cause v6's can have the power AND still turn without crashing

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

hahahaha that made me smile...wasnt expecting it, yet it is very true

deadbird

Please quit getting ideas... you're a big enough pita to me as it is (j/k )

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

hahahaha gee thanks...hey your getting paid for yoru services.....dont worry i wont have a power adder for some time

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ......

you keep telling yourself that....

RTFC

No Its because people that don't know how to build a performance motor can spend hard earned money for a bolt on horsepower that is overpriced. For the same $3500, I can get 120HP extra rather than a "claimed" 80hp with a much broader rpm range.

Doward

No matter how you do it - $3500 better get you a SERIOUS increase in hp/tq output! Either engine work, or forced induction, you'd best see some awesome gains out of it.

Personally, for $600 less AND MORE POWER, I know what I'd be going for.

RTFC

Agreed. Your kit is not putting an added strain on the motor by running a belt and pulley. You kit is also adding a better flowing exhaust setup to adid in power and breathing. I just don't care for auxillery mounted blowers (superchargers) unless its massively overdriven and used specifically for drag racing- Of course at that point it useless for street use. Kinda mean something like this to be cost effective in my opinion for justfiying having a blower thats belt driven. Thats a picture of me scrunched in Denshams car while we were towing it into position at Thunderfest. We were laughing and someone snapped the shot because I obviously was crammed in there pretty tight, I'm 6'4" in a car made for about 5'10". I had a hell of a time getting back out.

Turbos for daily street use I can justify the costs-to-HP gain ratio, but not blowers.

rocluvr0013

And v8's have trouble turning due to more weight? So your telling me that a supercharger and piping doesnt add weight over the front of the car? hmm...

Nocturnall

not what the extra 2 cyl's, heavier tranny, springs, and other suspension stuff add.

rocluvr0013

oh so my 700 r4 is heavier then yours?

Doward

Actually, yes - the bellhousing on the V6 is smaller than the bellhousing on the V8. It's only a couple lbs, but it's still a difference

AM91Camaro_RS

v8 convertors are bigger and a fair amount heavier, also. well, unless you've got a small v8 convertor...

Gumby

The weight difference between a V6 and V8 does make a difference. As most of the weight lose is in the front, making the weight transfer better. So it does handle a bit better stock. Less weight on the front half of the car, making the front end push less in the hard turns.

Now if you have all pro race parts and tune the suspension for the track or course you were testing on. You could tune things pretty even. But you gotta do that for every track.

RTFC

Yep

What you fail to realize is tnot only is the V6 motor about 200+ lbs lighter than the TPI350, It MOST IMPORTANTLY sits the center of the motor weight further back in the car behind the front wheels giving the car a better front to rear weight bias. V8's plow badly into corners and can not transition with the agility of a 3rdgen with a lightweight 60*V6.

I have backed this many times with money- check my link on what my V6 looks like before you commemt further. You may learn something.

KED85

I got an email from my buddy who has purchased this item but his car usage is a 2004 or 05 Malinu Maxx! He has no true complaints at all about the power upgrade difference.
Yeah these V6 are definetly a great ride for gymkahanas!
V8s are so nose heavy!

rocluvr0013

Yes but where does the weight go when you add thngs like superchargers? Over the nose... I totally agree with the fact that a 350 is heavier then a v6... thats obvious and yes i have a lighter then stock v8 convertor and i have removed my a/c relocated my battery to the rear of the car (which actually adds weight but moves most of it to the rear) etc... and about as stock suspension as it gets on my iroc, and i have driven a v6 rs and my iroc has much better handling capabilities from my point of view... im sure some of this has to do with the few weight loss mods that i have done to the front of my car and the stiffer suspension that my car has and the way the previous owners took care of the cars, but thats my point of view... anyways now im stealing the thread sorry ked85 didnt mean to do that back to the supercharger

RTFC

Karl doesn't mind. Lets see some pictures of your car and its suspension work. Talk is cheap. I will bluntly tell you my car will turn circles around your IROC regardless of your battery relocation. You live in So. Calif by chance, If so, I will offer you a ride in my car to enlighten you just how much advanced a 3rdgen can handle over even the most performance factory option availiable- especially one that is 20 years old and worn.

My car will scare you, you will do things in it you never imagined possible. I had an idiot just one month ago hit a gaurdrail trying to follow me onto a freeway onramp at the speed I was traveling onto the cloverleaf.

deadbird

Strictly as a curious question, how much of the entire 200 lbs extra a v8 weighs actually sits more forward than a v6 motor ? And, wouldn't the extra weight of the converter and bellhousing balance that differents outs over the car ?

Just seems that the biggest advantage a v6 car has generally is less weight witch creates less inertia <-( I think thats the word I mean to say at least... be doing good if I at least spelled it correct lol)

I do seriously doubt your car would scare me but, I bet I could scrare you with your car and my driving

RTFC

If I had a dollar for everytime.....

I think its time TGO sponsor a US tour for myself and the Camaro to educate the suspension crowd on the magnitude this V6 Camaro will corner. My wife gets naussiated sitting in the passenger seat from the g force in pulls around a long high speed sweeper. If I ever drive that way ever again with her in the car she WILL divorce me next time for certain (again, if I had a dollar.... ). Again, only one member on this board has ridden in this car and I even offered to let him test drive it and he declinded. His statememt after experiencing a ride along and trying to comprehend to grip transition and braking ability of this car was that it was (quote) "too much for him to handle". He drives 9 sec drag cars and has many many friend with third gens so he's no couch potato. You need to come for a ride otherwise you can never have an idea what it can do. Its like watching NASCAR and saying I can drive like those guys...NOT. I have driven a full blown NASCAR and can equate. I have also seen many that think they could humble themselves real quick when reallity presented itself and they had no clue because they had never experienced anything like it. Again I have raced cars all my life... I do speak from experience. You my friend are not going to be able to drive my car better than I and it is very arrogant and naive of you to think so even jokingly.

As for the trasitioning characteristics, its all about polar weight placement and the ability or lack of to manipulate it on a fully equipped V8 3rd gen. Convertor weight is trivial and a nonissue for handling weight- its critical for rotation mass only.

RTFC

I will also say that my experience and abilty behind a wheel and fabricating skills is what enables me to setup a car to handle so well. I don't just jump into a car and go fast. I jump into a car, get back out and adjust the suspension, jump back in and make it go faster than it has ever done with the current parts it has. I gaurantee I could make your car faster and I could drive it faster lap times that you ever could. (Am I making a friend of you right now, maybe not. You need to realize that I am very competitve and I put my money where my mouth is- Please take no offence, just understand I am someone with skills not to be taken lightly- like the comment you made above, I will call you to the table.

Case in point. I just got back from Vegas this weekend from a wedding that about 200 attended. Lots of attitudes at the reception. About 30 of us headed out that night to the local go-karting facility for a serious grudge match with lots of betting money on the line (It was Vegas of course, and I suckered them in) Not only did I walk away with over $400 cash, I set the track record on their Virage openwheel racers @ 45.61 seconds, And I weigh in at 240lbs so I'm no lightweight in a go-kart type car.

Thank you very much. Paid for my hotelroom for two nights.

A final note-
Take a good look at my car again even if you have already in the past. With the magnitude of parts and setup I have on it, or any one of my other cars, Do you not think I could afford to put a V8 into it if I wanted to? Or have just bought a V8 car to build instead of screwing with a V6? There is a reason I build the hell out of this V6 car, bucause it is much more agile than a V8 thirdgen- and I have driven many over the years. You can't touch a built V6 when it comes to cornering and braking and overall making the tires last for 20 laps at that pace. When you burn up your tires on lap 3 maintaining the drag race from corner to corner and overshooting the next turn, I will consitantly turn fast times again and again very reliably and consitently and my car will last longer. Unless you are in it for drag racing, a V6 is the way to go for a 3rd gen for all out handling, It just takes patients, more money than a V8, and the ability to have one off parts made for a motor that is rare to see modified.

rocluvr0013

Where did i say my car handles better then yours? I simply stated that i thought my stock suspensioned v8 with no tweaking handled better then a similar year stock suspension v6 car...with no tweaking... Where did i compare it to your car? I agree your car would turn circles around my IROC and i would love to go for a ride in your car! I was simply stating that i dont really see the handling prowess of the stock v6 maro as compared to mine.

That being said lets allow the post to revert back to its original topic

rx7speed

wow man
just be glad you don't have to drive that car and have it crash on you

I don't think the cage would protect you much you look like you sit OUTSIDE the cage


btw the offer is still open for you to tweak the suspension on my car.

think about it I have a few extra things for you to work with like lighter starting weight, IRS, prolly better suspension setup to start with stock as well as what I would assume a stiffer frame and better weight balance

so you up for it?

deadbird

RTFC... Since I'm not a super geek about suspension/autox/roadcourse/whatever... I was just hoping for a reasonable "well.. it doesn't work like that" type explaination. I really thought I might get a descent explination from someone who seems to know thier stuff. Not... TGO needs to host something for me to show all you pissants how its done type b.s.

Unfortunately, after reading your egocentric two part post.... I'm quite suprised your camaro has enough room to hold your ego let alone your body to be honest.

I'm done joking or otherwise with this because I know your type personality. I work with someone like you. Good reson nobody talks to that person as well...

Thanks for the responce at least though.

AM91Camaro_RS

who's got the big ego now? Dean (RTFC) knows what he's doing with suspension stuff...lets leave it at that.

KED85

Having viewed his work, also, I'll second that.
Only wish we had the moments to go for a "controlled spin!!!!!"
Ya should see the stuff, not beyond belief, but a true effective engineered package.

Doward

Myself and a couple other guys on here (see AM91's intake/TB) are working to fix that

GreyFox

once again when it comes to weight and power with the v8's being heavier, i think that the v6 would handle differently, take a wheel barrel and empty it run around the block a few times, then fill it with dirt/bricks/gilbert grapes mom, what ever you want and try to take the same course and see how many times you crash or over shoot a turn, and you could probably consider your fatigue like the one that the tires have after having to move that v8 (i guess i should add that this is to compare the stock suspension of the cars before i get my head cut off) its simple physics about weight and agility no ego needed for this comparision...............also i learned the other day (i hope its true) that you need 15hp for every 100lbs to keep the same rate of accleration, and why do i love my v6 well plain and simple like its been said here it does seem to handle pretty darn well for me sure it might not be as fast as a v8 but i like the gas mileage so any money i spend on power mods or whatever will greatly help out and consume less gas than a v8 ever would

rx7speed

another thing to think of is when you take a cart in the grociery store and put all the heavy stuff up front the car doesn't want to turn at all. but you put the weight in the rear the cart doesnt' want to turn.
as far as the 100lbs = 15hp = .1 in the 1/4 I don't buy it

think about a 400lbs bike. add 100lbs that is quite a bit more the ntaking some 3800lb car and adding 100lbs

Doward

50 hp on a 400lbs bike vs 135hp in a 3000lbs car.

400lbs/50hp = 8lbs/hp
500lbs/50hp = 10lbs/hp

2lbs/hp increase.

3000lbs/135hp = 22.22lbs/hp
3100lbs/135hp = 22.96296lbs/hp

.74296lbs/hp increase.

100lbs in a bike vs 100lbs in a car - well, you can see the difference.

That's also why a couple of hp = BIG difference on bikes. The name of the game is Power to Weight!

GreyFox

i saw it on speed tv the guy said that for every 100lbs its about 15hp he was taking apart an old camero

AM91Camaro_RS

you really can't relate weight and horsepower. for 1/4 mile times, I have heard 100 lbs = .1 second and 10 hp = .1 second. However, those are just "suggestions," the accurancy of that will change will the weight of the car (very light car vs. very heavy car) and with the HP range that you are dealing with.

deadbird

If anymore comments need to come about this.. you, Dean or anyone else, can PM me. Leave it be from this post.

RTFC

The day I see any V8 3rdgen and driver on street tires hanging with a Full race GT40 on a 180*road course sweeper like this, then come back and arrogantly boast to me. Until then, keep your mouth shut unless you can back what you claim- And you were not joking pissant.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thirdgen89gta/gt40.avi

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

exactly when did he(or anyone for that matter) say anything about beating you in a v8 car....cuz so far i dont see that, nor do i see him claiming anything at all....just asking a simple question and stating a few thigns. knowing a lot about something and educating us on it is one thing but being a complete *** whipe while doing it is another. yeah you know your stuff....but you seriously need to learn how to relay it to the rest of us with out the "hey im the master of v6 suspension" attitude just a thought, actually i have to say he just gave you a little taste of what you sound like everytime you post...kinda annoying aint it.... anways i do belive this is a thread on a supercharger not suspension

so does anyone have this kit by chance, im sure it could be used to get way more hp and tq out than what they advertise...with a little bit of extra tuning of course. would a bigger supercharge(like getting a bigger tubo for dowards kit) be any better?

deadbird

Dean... when or where did I say I woud scare you via good driving ?

Sorry the humor fairy skipped you at birth... lighten up d__k.

Yes.. it was a f_____g joke.

I offered you to PM me.... apparently you're even to good for a one on one conversation.