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so im a 17 year old with my 5 speed 89 rs with a 3.4 camaro engine swap, i have 1000 dollars to drop into my car, my friend jut got a 2015 challenger, they do 0-60 in 6 seconds flat, he beat a 2002 convertible mustang {automatic} recently, i want to race, can i make it happen? what parts should i get? the new challengers wiegh 3,900 pounds which is at least 800 pounds heavier and come with 305 hp stock. Help!!!
so im a 17 year old with my 5 speed 89 rs with a 3.4 camaro engine swap, i have 1000 dollars to drop into my car, my friend jut got a 2015 challenger, they do 0-60 in 6 seconds flat, he beat a 2002 convertible mustang {automatic} recently, i want to race, can i make it happen? what parts should i get? the new challengers wiegh 3,900 pounds which is at least 800 pounds heavier and come with 305 hp stock. Help!!!
First of all if you're going to race please take it to a track. At 17 there's no way you have enough experience driving and definitely don't put others at risk. The challengers are closer to 500 lb heavier but still overpowers the 3.4 by a good bit. I remember driving a 3.4 camaro years ago and it didn't have enough power to get out of its own way and definitely isn't worth the money trying to make Fast so if anything plan on a basic 350 swap to get you going.
At 1000 your half way to buying a running v8 third gen to begin with. Save up some more dough and grab a v8 car, then sell the v6 car for money to spend on the v8. That will be the quickest and smartest way to get faster. But be smart about all this racing. Don't ruin your driving record or worse when you have only had a license for a year.
Look into entering some local autocross events. A v6 is a great car for autocross. It's got just enough power that you can really romp on it around a course without flinging the tail end put like high powered v8s. This really helps land some real quick times around a track. Lower powered cars do very well in autocross. It's actually preferred. It's a ton of fun too. Work on the suspension and brakes as well, all of this will transfer to the v8 car when you get one.
Any monkey can go fast in a straight line. All that proves is that the motor is bigger. Get good at autocross and handling turns and you can tell your friends, yeah your car is faster going straight, but I'm a better driver. Then get a bigger motor car and be a better driver and faster :-)
so im a 17 year old with my 5 speed 89 rs with a 3.4 camaro engine swap, i have 1000 dollars to drop into my car, my friend jut got a 2015 challenger, they do 0-60 in 6 seconds flat, he beat a 2002 convertible mustang {automatic} recently, i want to race, can i make it happen? what parts should i get? the new challengers wiegh 3,900 pounds which is at least 800 pounds heavier and come with 305 hp stock. Help!!!
Go to the track and race it. Then see what it runs there. That will give you a better idea how fast it really is. Just my 2 cents.
Ill disagree on that the 3.4L isnt worth the money to make it fast. Heck for 1000 bucks a few years back I got my 3.1L thirdgen into the low 13s in the 1/4 mile and still drove it to work and school... Was 13 really fast... not really in todays standards but I sure had fun literly dusting stock 350tpi thirdgen at the track. But Ill add that a power adder is the only way to make them truly fast.. specifically a turbo. N/A builds on the 2.8 3.1 3.4 really are not too impressive at all IMO>
Thanks for the concern guys, ive seen car crashes at 35 miles per hour and they are not pretty so i am well aware of the consequnces. Im not planning on being a full on racer or anything 320 hp for my car will pretty be much my limit i just wanted to see what it would take to beat this challneger. and how to get it there with 1000 bucks
also im planning on keeping my v6 because i once heard a qoute " any idiot can make a v8 fast but it takes a smart idiot to make a v6 fast" so thats what im going for
Change smart to rich. Put a turbo on a v6 it will be faster than it was, put the same size turbo on a v8 and it will be even faster still. With way more room to grow than a v6. Plus it will take you exponentially that much more money to make a v6 as fast as a v8. On top of the v6 car you are trying to be faster than is already faster than a 305 or 350 third gen by a long shot. Today's v6 cars make 80's and 90's v6 cars look pitiful. They even male most v8 from 80's and 90's look terrible.
A grand isn't gonna scratch the surface of what you need to be faster than a new challenger with a v6. At the bare minimum you will need a turbo kit, at close to 3 times what the engine puts out stock you're going to need new forged internals to handle the boost, maybe a new cam, new rear gears and a posi, you will need to have it dyno tuned, whole new exhaust setup to handle the exhaust flown for the turbo, better brakes and new suspension on a car old enough to be tagged antique to handle those speeds safe.
I'd bet the turbo setup alone will be more than a grand.
Funny you say that, on Craigslist someone is selling brakes from a 4th Gen ss and the rear end for 300 dollars just trying to get rid of it, for starters should I jump on that? And so even if I matched the 300 hp the challenger is making I still can't beat it ?
You will still need the exact same amount of money to get to 300 hp with your v6, the only thing different than what I listed will be the tune, which will require the same amount if time and money.
You're looking at prolly 3-5 grand to get that v6 reliably making enough power to keep up with that challenger.
You can use the rear end and the rear brakes but I don't think that the front brakes will work.
There is no way i have 5 grand into my V6 car... And I can eat up those challanges and the car is still reliable. Ive had little issues with my set up in the past 4 years. Not bragging about the set up I have but its easily a solid 450Hp engine that is in mine and its only 191 cubic inches. Nothing but 11 second passes for the past 30 passes down the track.
Im one of the few idiots that have made a radical V6 setup. But trust me its not hard to do once you get familiar with the 60 degree engines and how much power you can actually toss though them. It does take patients and guidence to learn the heads that flow better (hybrids) the proper size turbo, and many other things.
I get tired of people dismissing V6 thirdgens. The reason that you dont see any fast ones is because no one thinks to make them fast. For 2 grand you could easily have a 12 second V6 thirdgen that is damm reliable. I made a reliable 13.30s 3.1L for a grand back when i started doing this.
This being said, you have to know how to do all this on your own. Welding, tuning, exc. But thats the case with any modded up turbo build. Its always a heck of alot cheeper when you do it yourself and gives you more money that you didnt spend to mod up the car better.
Yea a V8 will always have more CI but that doesnt mean that a V8 is always the way to go. Consider the cost of a good lsx swap into a V6 thirdgen compared to a good V6 turbo build. Youll find out that unless you intentions are 10 second or less 1/4 miles, that both of them in the end will have close to the same hp/per dollar till you get into that 500+ hp area.
And if you wanted the simplest way to be fast, get a Wideband sensor kit, the moates tuning stuff, aldl cable, a good n20 wet kit, a window switch, blow down tube, purger, heater, and colder plugs. Throw a 100-150 shot of n20 at it. As long as you take out the timing and use the wideband to make sure the afrs are in check, the v6 will take it all day long. The trans and rear end is no worse then a V8 platform so a healthy lower milage drivetrain will take 250-300hp for quite some time. You're looking at a good 1000-1400 bucks depending on what you buy. But the n20 gets exspencive. Trust me I run a 50hp shot on my car to spool up the turbo and hate that I have to buy more of the stuff every few months. Its like crack for engines...
That's what I want, a v6 that could eat up cars that cost way more and I wis I could do this welding and all this but I'm only 17 but u definitely want my Camaro running like yours fasteddies
That's what I want, a v6 that could eat up cars that cost way more and I wis I could do this welding and all this but I'm only 17 but u definitely want my Camaro running like yours fasteddies
It definitly take some time to do and yea some money but its like that with any build. I dont car if its a 350tpi or some sort of lsx swap into a thirdgen. Plan to spend money and time. I love my v6 and even if the dang thing blew up, i would still start over with a V6. Just because V8s are everwhere and to be honest there boring to me to a point. I like to built them as much as race them so its a constant build with my car.
There is one person into the 10s, mars, with his z28 3900 swaped turbo camaro. Hes the fastest I know of on this board at least, with a V6 thirdgen. Laugh it up but the cars still streetable as can be too. Ive only gotten 11.59@119mph but still, to be able to drive it home afterwards with a full interior car, is always fun, and its just different which is why I like it so much.
Did your engine blow because of the boost and 1/4 miles or ??? And which turbo do you recommend for me, something with good street boost and reliable because this will be my DD and I don't need my engine blowing up by the end of the year
Did your engine blow because of the boost and 1/4 miles or ??? And which turbo do you recommend for me, something with good street boost and reliable because this will be my DD and I don't need my engine blowing up by the end of the year
I only severely wounded the motor one time, 3 years ago. I ran alky injection, forgot to turn it on, had detonation and broke a ring and then the ringlands. Still drove it home but it ended my season 3 years back. That was the first full year I had it turboed.
Something that mirrors a gt3582r would be the turbo you'd want for all around power. I run a s366 but it's oversized a bit for drag racing. Works great for me.
So theoritcally with the turbo you recommended and doing a hard pull here and there my engine should be fine and not blow up on me after a year ? Keeping up with tunes ups and what not
So theoritcally with the turbo you recommended and doing a hard pull here and there my engine should be fine and not blow up on me after a year ? Keeping up with tunes ups and what not
Let's take a step back. Yes the 2.8l you have will easily take boost and make some good power without falior. But also don't think that it's easy to just toss it on and go. It takes a good amount of tuning just like any hi HP built. A little bit of detonation and boom it's over.
That's exactly what I don't want tI happen, so tuning do yiymean getting it dyno or tuning as in spark plugs,oil, ect. And what's the best way just to keep the car on boost running strong for a while
You will have to get a turbo manifold. The exhaust is where the turbo mounts. The exhaust is what drives the turbo. That's why a turbo has a hot side and a cold side. The exhaust spins the hotside, there's a shaft that connects the hot to the cold side, the cold side has blades that create a vacuum when spun. This forces more air into the engine then it would normally suck in on its own. That is what is called boost, and it's measured by how much above 0 vacuum the engine would normally see.
You will need just about a whole new exhaust system, will be fabricating your intake setup before the throttle body, making room for the intercooler and piping, you will need to have someone familiar with burning chips for the stock computer, or someone who can help you tune a full aftermarket setup.
Boost and air fuel gauges to monitor your engine. Don't want to blow it up cause you don't know what's going on.
So bare minimum,
Turbo manifold
Some form of tune-able ecu
Turbo
Waste gate
Custom exhaust for waste gate and turbo
Blow off valve
Intercooler
Intake piping.
I have no idea how the stock internals are at taking boost on a 3.4 so I cannot comment on anything internal for the engine. But what I have listed is bare minimum.
I highly recommend a turbo timer since it will be street driven, and some form of data logging to keep an eye on everything to make sure it's not acting up any so you can catch any issues before it becomes a major problem.
In order to keep this cheap you will be doing a lot of custom fabrication that you need to learn to do. Or a really good friend with a welder.
I'll let Eddi comment more on internals and the finer points. But this isn't just buy the parts and bolt it on. This will require a lot of work. You will be making custom one off parts, and will be spending a lot of time with a tune shop and a dyno for this to be as reliable as you want.
The less time you spend doing this the right way, the less time the engine is gonna live before killing itself. Being your first time building anything of this nature I recommend buying a dirt cheap beater car to daily drive. You will have set backs. Don't expect to buy everything and be running and racing in a weekend.
Wow that really helps and what are the price difference between doing it at home and a shop. And what it looks like is that the more air the more hp so if I got a bugger throttle body would that help as well?
No, it's not just more air more power, the turbo is compressing the air and making it more dense, so there's more air fitting into the same space, so the car can run more fuel which is how you make power. And price difference are all over the place but if you are paying a shop to do everything triple whatever the total for the parts are. They will eat you alive on labor charges.
No, just start with as much factory parts as you can use and start with low boost. This is not a cheap or easy thing to do. I'm still on the side of spending the money on suspension and brakes and re gear the rear end. Make it a fun car in the turns and go to some autocross events. Then YOU have skill. Not just a big motor. I'm more impressed with driving skill than horsepower.
My buddy autocrosses a 2014 v6 mustang, I've been in the car as a passenger when he set a better lap time than a Ferrari f430.
Yeah that's pretty badass, but he also has double the hp I got and in that case get some sway bars ,rear gears (what rear gears do you recommend I get) brakes and spend like 500 bucks?
Get some good springs and shocks, a nice set of swaybars and good tires, I'm not sure what the recommendation is for v6 cars but usually 3.73 are a good gear set to go with on most any car. The gears will make your car faster as well. These few mods alone will make it feel like a totally different car.
Oh I'd also get some subframe connectors. Weld on are better. This won't be to much for a shop to weld on since they won't have to fabricate anything. The rest is bolt on with some standard hand tools a jack and at least 2 jack stands. You can do everything yourself.
Ok if you have a 3.4L its the same in a nutshell. It will take the same punishment. I have stock rods and crank still and there still going strong....knock on wood. I trapped 120mph once this year with a 3280 race weight car so you can see it has some major hp going though it and works fine as long as the tune is dead on.
I never dyno tuned it, i just tune it on my own. On the country roads, and mainly at the track.
But the turbo stuff here is the bare bones that I would suggest.
Walbro 255 fuel pump
36lbs injectors
Moates tuning equitment of some sort(your choice on the stuff) But its for tuning
A wideband o2 sensor kit
The turbo
The turbo oil supply stuff and return
The charge piping and intercooler(a kit is the easiest)
r42ts plugs for you gapped to about .030
Wastegate 38mm with a 10 psi spring in it. Then a controler later after you know what your doing
A Blow off valve
And then the exhaust stuff. Which is cheep to do if you can weld and fabricate.
Look over on the V6 area and look at the stickys there is alot of info on there for help with turboing a V6.
Pic of my turbo headers i made for my 3.1L block with a 3400 on the topend. Hybrid.
This is when I ran iron heads a true 3.1L. And had log style headers. (alky injection)
That's nice, so with a 1000 bucks could I at least buy the things you suggested and do you think I should turbo eddi
Only if your confident you can weld the stuff all up, install it, and learn how to tune it. Ive seen too many v6 guys buy the stuff only to sell it a few months down the road becuase they got in over their head.
With any turbo build it can be a lower cost build if you do it your self but if you can do it yourself it gets very exspencive very fast.
guys, so i decided in the end i want my car to be pretty quick and not fast, so basically 0-60 id be happy with that, i got the 3.73 gears and the car accelerates a lot faster than before very happy with that but i wanted to know what else can i do to make the car quicker?, besides anything exspensive. like what a short shifter and soemthing else add on to quickness of it ?
thanks for the help
A short shifter won't do anything but allow you to shift faster, and that will be negligible. Work on things to help your launch. Have you replaced any of the bushings or suspension in this car?
Why do you have 18's just in the back? What's up front? And this a good cheap option for springs at the moment.
m.summitracing.com/parts/sum-cc635
I know it's a stock height spring but it will firm up the rear from the soft sagging stock springs and help the rear grip better, also look into lower control arm relocation brackets. (Lca relocation brackets)
And tubular lower control arms with polyurethane bushings. New trans and motor mounts wouldn't hurt either with poly bushings being a good choice. Energy Suspension is usually my go to for bushings.
Basically start with maintenance. Replacing old worn parts will help a lot.
a cam! call up delta cams and tell them what you have. 120 bucks or so for the cam and lifter set. You have a maf car so you dont need to tune it like a SD car. A delta 260 or 270 grind cam would help add a little kick up top. I had a 260 cam i ran for years, now i have a 270 in the car.
Why do you have 18's just in the back? What's up front? And this a good cheap option for springs at the moment.
m.summitracing.com/parts/sum-cc635
I know it's a stock height spring but it will firm up the rear from the soft sagging stock springs and help the rear grip better, also look into lower control arm relocation brackets. (Lca relocation brackets)
And tubular lower control arms with polyurethane bushings. New trans and motor mounts wouldn't hurt either with poly bushings being a good choice. Energy Suspension is usually my go to for bushings.
Basically start with maintenance. Replacing old worn parts will help a lot.
i have 17s in the front because it gave it the upperback muscle car look and for the cam doesnt it make the car less fuel efficent or something like that
well if your doing this so the car is faster and can beat your buddies charger..... isnt it silly to think about fuel consumption.
I think if you were to put in the biggest lumpiest cam, if you babied it, you will get the same/similar mileage as any if you ask me. it all depends on how you drive. now im talking semi vague here fyi...
right i know but i didnt want dd to start getting 12 mpg or something and a delta 270 cam? where can i buy one and for how much ? installation? and yeah its only like a half to inch diffrence and all tires are low profiles. also for bushings how much should those cost for our 3rd gens
09-15-2015, 01:27 AM
