Doom Sayer

I never thought it'd be so hard to decide on what I should do about a motor. Seriously it's stressing me out so much, I can't even sleep at night because I can't stop thinking about what I should do.

The cheapest way I think would be getting the 3.1 rebuilt. I'm not really sure what is all included with a rebuild. Northern Auto Parts has a kit for $420, but I don't know what else I'm going to need and I'm sure the rebuild in the end is gonna cost a lot more than $420, probably $1000 or more... I could have a burnt piston(s) Lord knows what else is wrong with it.... And then if I got the 3.1 rebuilt, I'm not sure all the sensors, accesories and all that stuff is still good. Then there's the trans. It's probably about time for a rebuilt trans too since there's 237k miles on it.... So what started out as a cheap way ends up turning into something more expensive.... And I'd still have a slow car

Then there's the 3.4 swap, but then using all the parts off the 3.1 on the 3.4 might be a waste if I'd new new accesories, etc. All that little stuff is gonna add up making it cost more than just buying a used 3.4 for $500 or whatever, and again by then it may be time for a rebuilt trans making it a lot more than $500.

Then there's the LT1 swap I've been thinking about. If I had $3,000 in my pocket I think my decision would be easy, but I don't. If I go this route I'll need to find a LT1 motor and trans and everything included for under $2000, and I have a feeling it's gonna be hard to find that, though I have seen many on Ebay for under $2,000 that included everything except for a radiator and new motor mounts.. And with this I wouldn't have to worry about some parts needing replaced, or worry about rebuilding the trans I have if I got my 3.1 rebuilt or got a 3.4... Of course the LT1 parts aren't new, but it's a lot newer than what's on my car now.

$2000 is a lot of money to be gone at one time, but I may be spending that much over a period oftime trying to rebuild the 3.1/3.4, buying parts, rebuilding the trans, etc.

eric17422001

The cheapest way would be to find a running 3.1/3.4 and bolt it in. Also easier. I believe a month or so back you had a similar thread and I found a running complete 3.1 and trans cheap on the classifieds and linked you to it.

I would never buy a rebuild kit until you have torn down your engine and seen what it needs. For example, you get a kit with all standard bearings and you have to get a reground crank that's .010" under, well, then you have to return your standard bearings and get undersize bearings. You get standard rings in the kit, and find your cylinders are worn and you have to have the block bored oversize- do you see where I am going with this?

Sure swapping an LT1 is sounds great if you have the money, but do you have the time, skills and most importantly the facilities to do this? I can't tell you how many projects get towed away from an apartment complex parking lot because they sat unlicenced and in pieces because someone bit off more than they could chew.

Not trying to discourage you Doomsayer, it's just that I'm 38 and have had too many projects and ideas over the years from boats to dune buggies to snowmobiles that had to be abandoned because I bit off more than I could chew and had no place to do the chewing!

Doom Sayer

I guess I should of included in my post that I won't be doing the rebuild myself. For the main reason because I don't know what you are talking about when you say ".010". I don't know what that means. I don't know much about cars, and in Jan. I am going to college to take the automotive course so I will know how to do this stuff... With the LT1 swap, I had someone that said they would help me out with it, since I'd have to pay someone to do it they said they would give me a break and not charge much, but then again you can't really trust anyone anymore when it comes to money.

My mechanic and he said he would find me a used 3.1 for me, but I haven't really talked about prices and labor it's gonna cost. Do you have any idea about how much it would cost for a shop to put another 3.1 in or 3.4? This is the guy that will probably end up doing it because we're close with him and can trust him to not screw us... Or should I just give him my car for a couple of weeks and just let him tear apart my 3.1 and rebuild it with everything it needs?

1989karr

Well, first I think you have to try find a guy who is willing to swap a 3.4 for you. So if you can't find someone who wants to do that then you should just go with the 3.1 right?

I can't find ANYONE who has heard of swapping the 3.4 and they all say "we can't do it for ya". I even checked the dealers, told them how they're both 60 degree engines, 2.8 from a 89 bird for a 3.4 from a 93-95 bird or Maro......asked about swapping the intake systems.... and only using mainly the block and all I get is a "Not possible, the cars are completley different...you're asking based on stuff off the web?"

sooooo.....well, anyway that for some reason makes me want ot do it more, that and the lack of some power..... so I may be coming back here and posting a lot of question....hehe.

But as far as the thing, if you can find someone to do the 3.4 I'd say go for it and change the hard to get items/sensors and just lteave the easy to get ones till they go out on you.

BTW, if you do the LT1, what about all the other costs like wiring etc??

eric17422001

A dealer won't touch a 3.4 swap with a twenty nine and a half foot pole because of the possible tuning issues- the thing may run lean etc and they don't want to stand behind it. That and they make their bread and butter doing warranty work and service on newer cars that they sell. Plus auto techs get paid on a flat rate basis almost exclusively, so it something does not go 100% for the tech he gets to "eat" the time it takes him to re do something. Plus the newest thridgens are now 13 going on 14 years old and most dealer techs rarely if ever see them and certainly not on a daily basis, so yes they will be hesitant.

Perhaps a small shop, corner gas station type deal will do the job for you, or your basic shade tree guy on the side.

I can assure you that though the rebuild kit may only cost X amount, there is always machine work associated with a rebuild such as boring and honing cylinders oversize, polishing the crankshaft, hot tanking, magnetic inspection for cracks etc. that pushes the cost up. Sure, sometimes you get lucky and can get by with just re ringing the stock pistons, with a clean up by a bottle brush hone, and slipping new bearings in the rods and mains, and a quick valve grind.

For example the near stock 350 in my S10 cost me about $350 in machine work to build the long block, including hot tanking the block, magnetic inspection for cracks, boring the .030" oversize on the cylinders to clean up the wear, magnetic inspection of the crankshaft, and align honing the main bearing bore. The heads needed a valve job and all the same hot tanking and magnetic crack inspection. This was five years ago, machine shop rates have gone up some, though yours would be a bit cheaper as you would have six holes to bore and hone if needed instead of eight.

If you are truly behind this project, do it. But don't be suprized with things cost twice as much as you first thought. But learn from it, there was a first rebuild for me too once upon a time.

Perhaps AIM91 will chime in, he's rebuilt his 3.1 including machine work, maybe he has some more advice.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

it all depends on what youre gonna do with the car. is it gonna be a daily driver? strip car? mix of both? i did my 3.4 swap when i was in college, so i was on a budget. but i did it partially because i want to stick w/ a v6 and see how far i can push it. if you really wanna do a cheap upgrade, a carbed 350 is probably the way to go. theyre a dime a dozen. a rebuild kit for a 350 is like $150 through northern auto. you can ditch all the computer stuff, get a 350 and a trans to bolt up to it and away you go. that way you dont have to worry about tuning or a new ECM/harness and all that to go along. just food for thought.

Doom Sayer

It's going to be a daily driver, but I want to be able to have the power when I need it.

Carbed v8 = 10mpg? And how much would that still be in labor cost vs a LT1 swap?

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

putting an LT1 would be a lot more since you have to replace the harness and ECM and all that. a carbed 350 will drop right in since they were in the 3rd gens. the mounts and all that will bolt right up. and if you dont build it up you can get better than 10mpg. it just needs to be built to drive for daily driver, not performance. you can drop a v6 in and get more performance and still get 25mpg.

Derickab

It would be ice if you were able to do the work yourself. I rebuilt my 2.8 for a total of $600 including the rebuild kit, machine work to the engine, new clutch and flexplate, and replacing afew of the sensors. The catch is I am doing all the labor myself. But its never bad to go back with what you have. You can never go wrong with that.

PhLaXuS

Another option is buying a 350 and taking your time in ripping it apart & learning slowly while you rebuild it. A salvage yard near me sells 350's where you have to pull the engine from the car yourself, but for a bit more (like $100 more) they'll pull it for you. All you'd have to do is drive up with a truck & load the engine. If you're going to go to school for it anyway, it sounds like something you may enjoy. You'd need a few hundred dollard in more specialized tools on top of the standard hand tools. The induction setup is where a lot of the engine harness complications come in...and that's one of the last things you'd have to decide on before dropping the engine into the car.

Doom Sayer

Which carbed 350 are you talking about? Which years did they come in? About the mounts I read many of times on here that you need the v8 motor mounts..?

My brother in law has a '68? Firebird that is rotting behind his shed. I could see what motor he has and if he'll give it to me or sell it.

The_Raven

If I was in the situation you're in, I'd grab a 3.4 and swap the intake and exhaust manifolds, and most likely the timing cover/belt driven accessories, bolt it in and away you go. Not much more than buying another 3.1 and doing the same, except for a few gaskets, intake, exhaust and timing cover, maybe oil pan. While you're there swapping the oil pump drive out for the dizzy, put a new O-ring on the dizzy, you'll be glad you did.

yupitsdadsbird

hey I resemble the carbed=10mpg........it'll be more like 15 unless goose it. and besides all ya need to do is run a q-jet stock pistons stock cam stock heads and stock ratio rockers and ya should be in the 20 plus mpg range.

me I got a 480 lift 290 dur cam 2.02/1.60 flowed heads 1 5/8 to 3" hedman headers 10:1 .030 pistons edelbrock performer intake 750 holley open air cleaner accel ignition (minus the box which I will be ordering) and no xtra power from but a 4 bolt block. now to put it all together and pick up a 700r4 with shiftkit and about a 2400 stall then something between a 3.53 to a 4.10 gear with posi.

well with 4.10 gears it''l be about 10mpg

Doom Sayer

I dunno, I'm thinking the gas won't be much of a problem now. It's not like I have a $300 car payment and $300 for insurance, so I'll have enough money for gas and plus I don't do much driving lol I haven't drove my car in 2 days now.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

ive gotta agree with The_Raven. its the quickest, easiest and best overall that you can do. youll get more power, less miles on the engine, no customizing and youll still get great gas mileage, i can get about 25mpg, and mines been good and modded, plus im running a bit rich, and im running in the 15s. i cant complain.