Project 3.4 Camaro

Curious to see if anybody is making some serious power out of one of these things(300+), hybrid's are a plus, would love to see some dyno results on one of those.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Hello? Project89? Purple82ta?

Well my bone-stock 2.8 will be making over 300hp at some point in the future... briefly. I'm going to see how much n2o I can put through it before it scatters all over the track. Hopefully I can keep that from happening too soon with progressive control via my ecm.

Then I'll put the real motor in.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

320 HP/300 TQ but it's not a gen1 engine.. full gen3 and naturally aspirated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCdRKvMlmck



Jbody guys have pushed the hybrids pretty far but most end up going to full gen3 engines since they're stronger and have better aftermarket cam choices. I've seen a lot of hybrids, i don't recall any N/A builds exceeding 250 crank HP. Boosted i'm sure they've been up close to 400 but it's becoming more and more common for those builds to wipe cam lobes.


My swap project starts this spring, i'm hoping to put out enough info that can help the Fbody V6 community move forward into the gen3 engines. There is serious power in the 3400 and 3500.. even the 3900 will be a possibility. I seem to remember the 3900 is able to be stroked up to 4.3 liters. With good porting and a healthy cam with bolt-ons 350-400 HP N/A is a possibility.

AM91Camaro_RS

I was around 230 or so n/a on my 3.1. I went 14.97 in the 1/4 mile @ 89.95 mph. I had it on the dyno a couple of times but it showed low numbers. Don't know why but it sure wouldn't have run the times that it has run with what I saw at the dyno place.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Anyone think 500-600 hp is remotely possible with large twin turbos on a highly modded 2.8/3.1 hybrid?

I'm thinking along the lines of heavily ported 3400 heads and intake manifolds, titanium race valves, lightweight rockers, stiff valve springs, high rpm lifters, and a cam to make my power band something like 3-7 or maybe even 8k rpm with that as redline. Along with forged dished aluminum pistons to lower CR for turbocharging, a stronger crank(probably would stroke it to a 3.1 unless it would compromise high rpm stability) and stronger connecting rods to take the abuse. And last but not least 2 BFTs. I'm thinking if I get my redline that high up I can get away with big turbos since they'll have more room to get up to good boost levels. Question is whether or not its those output levels are feasibly obtainable with the 60/6 platform...my main concern is block strength and the fact that its pushrod based. Along with somewhat small displacement.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I just finished porting a set of 3500 heads for a Beretta owner who is building a 3400/3500 hybrid with forged pistons and forged H-beam rods with a boost cam from wot-tech. He's shooting for about 600 HP and 11's will be no problem as long as he can hook up.


It's going to be harder to push a flat tappet block up to those RPM's reliably. Your best bet is convert to a solid roller cam, use the forged steel crank from a 3500 and have the rod pins cut down to fit some good SBC rods. good block prep will be needed as well to make sure all the drainbacks are opened up and everything else is in good shape.

1 big turbo would handle those power levels and probably save you some weight.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys I'm kinda new to this, especially the V6s since my car is a 305, but what is a hybrid engine? lol sorry if that's a dumb question.

FireInMe17

When you use the heads(?) and intake off of a different Gen III V6 like a 3100, 3400, or 3800, and stick them on a 2.8L or 3.1L block, and yes there is a difference between a 3100 and a 3.1L

Its all there to pretty much give better flow, the flow for the intake and exhausts in the Gen I and II engines are pretty bad actually, thats why so many people look to knock out their cats to attempt to get better flow, and then theres that want a hybrid to give it better flow and more power potentially, I hope I'm right, haha thats just what I've read/heard about a hybrid V6

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Oh ok, do they put out decent gains in the 2.8/3.1s that come in our thirdgens?

FireInMe17

From what these guys are saying I guess so, I'm running a stock 3.1L so I don't know what its like, ask someone who has a hybrid for sure.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

the 3800 is a 90 degree V6, it shares nothing with our engines other than the coils in some applications.


Technically a hybrid is any combination of one generation of bottom end with any different generation of top end. a gen1 3.1 (Camaro) with a Gen3 3400 top end.. or even like i saw a fiero owner do and put a gen1 top end on a gen3 engine. The last being about the worst idea in history.

Gen1 and Gen2 top ends flow almost the same, Gen2 is a little better. Gen3 stuff is very nice (3100, 3400 and 3500 being the best but only fitting on a 3.62" bore and above)

FireInMe17

Yeah....my bad I need to watch exactly what I'm typing when i post on here, I knew that.....lol

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Just changing out the top end and pistons (to keep the c/r reasonable) will net 50-70hp.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Haha, yeah, I bumped into that fiero swap over on 60/6, needless to say I moved on to browse other threads rather quickly :P
And as far as compatibility goes, our 2.8/3.1s will fit the 3100 and 3400, now the RWD 3.4s found in 4th gen F-bodys will fit 3500 heads and manifolds, a 3400 can also fit 3500 heads, but is a fwd engine so a moot point as far as were concerned..
Now for the cam, originally it was my intent to swap to a race cam designed for a 3400 to get some nice specs and the roller upgrade, but then I happened across a thread that said we can't use roller cams in our block? Anyone know for sure on this matter? Because it would make things much easier If I can do that...and if it is doable If someone could tell me what that requries I would appreciate it...
As for a turbo, I suppose a big enough single would...but I'm thinking at that kind of numbers I would have some big lag if I used a single.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Forgive the ignorance here, but I know next to nothing about the 3500s so what stroke and bore are they compared to a 2.8 or 3.1?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Apparently there have been a few lobe failures on gen1 block hybrids. Some people will tell you you can't use a roller because of some mysterious way the lifters barf oil or something and that's why they failed, but others have retrofit them without a problem. I have my own theory related to the way oil drainback is set up which was brushed off by most people, but I digress. I'm going to find out on my motor soon enough. You need some way to mount the antirotation bars, an sbc cam button (cut to fit) and possibly a spacer between the cam & gear if you choose to drill it for a double roller timing chain. And of course proper length pushrods. 3500 stroke is same as the 2.8, just larger bore.

firebird1992

125 shot before i sent a rod to the ground on a stock engine lol ... somewhat stock

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

the Gen 3 3500 has a 3.31" stroke like the 3.1 and 3.4. the 2.8 has a 2.99" stroke.


3500 is 3.7" bore, 3400 is 3.62", 3.1/2.8 is 3.5"



bl85c, not a hydraulic roller cam. mechanical. Curtis walker "turboz24" had no (or minimal) problems with his. His site is long gone so specifics on the setup are hard to come across.

Here are some posts with info...

http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/crow...nical+cam.html

http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/mech...nical+cam.html

GTA50

I would love to see the 300+ numbers.

Maseratti did a neat trick with the BiTurbo in the 1980's on their V6's. One low boost turbo to kill the lag and then a high boost turbo to really kick in. I saw one once locally and the acceleration was fantastic.

grassyflats

when i first purchsaed my 3.1 91 RS I called chevy
they said they didnt have any aftermarket boltons for a V6
and there was nothing i could do with it

AM91Camaro_RS

they might not have any. But, there's a ton of stuff available.

grassyflats

i think i would rather do a swap
shes for sale and fast
she looks just like yours does in yer pic
although she needs paint

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I know about what he did. I'm talking about hyd. setups that a handfull of people have tried. 3rd gen RS asked why there's some posts about not being able to use roller stuff in early blocks.

grassyflats

gotta list?
is there a TGO thread detailing an RS 3.1 swap for an L98?
it seems to make more sense to swap engines than
to build a V6 -dont you think so?

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

The list is at the top in a sticky.
Tons of swap threads in the engine swap section.
Engine swap doesn't always make sense. Its a big cash outlay upfront. I was 19 and lower enlisted, so I didn't make crap for cash, but I still wanted to mod my car. A swap was WAY out of budget, but bolt-ons were within reach. Now the engine has proved reliable, and I'm shooting for a sub-3000 lb street car, which is easier with a lighter engine. Sure, it will "only" have 300 hp when it is done, but it will still go 12s and handle great.

backgammon7

There's a sticky that covers the " after market parts for 60* motors" and there's another one about "Considering an engine swap" . go to the main v6 board and it should be in the second section of threads

mybad, jensen73110, we must have replied at the same time and you just beat me to it

Project 3.4 Camaro

So from what I gathered reading those threads my only option is mechanical roller lifters? What kind of cam would I need for those then? A hydraulic roller or do they require their own type of cam?? And I'm trying to remember, but isn't this the kind of setup that has the rocker arm tips with a space between them and the valves?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Not neccecarily. You may be able to use factory hybraulic if you're willing to do a little fabrication. If you do decide to go with mechanical rollers you need a cam ground for it to get as much out of it as you can. It will work with a hyd. profile but you won't see all the benefits. And yes, you need valve lash with a mechanical lifter.

project89

iTrader: (1)

3.1L v6 making 338Hp and 463Ftlbs @ 9 pounds of boost on pump gas with issues

86ttopbird

with issues? what kind of issues?

project89

iTrader: (1)

ignition system issues they have since been fixed but havent redynoed yet

86ttopbird

Oh my bad i didnt know you were serious. lol I thought it was a typo haha

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah without those issues it would have made around 400hp/500-525 ftlbs

svcary part was we were prepared to dyno the car at 28 psi that day we did dyno was going to try to hit the 600hp mark

86ttopbird

28psi? Holy crap lol I dont think diesels have that kind of boost lol. Would be damn impressive though to see the numbers on it.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Wow, I'm surprised the torque scales that well on that thing. And that's on iron heads isn't it?

Project 3.4 Camaro

You're giving me some hope here that I can hit my power goals of 300+ N/A and 500-650 hp turbocharged.

86ttopbird

A nice hybrid build on 6psi should be enough to lay waste to almost any fart can equipped Honda you happen across, and maybe a few V8 cars as well. That is after the pistons are swapped. I have read here that using the stock 3.4 pistons and 3500 heads, youre looking at around 11.5:1 SCR. Add boost on top of that, and youll blow the heads off the block lol.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yep, I know all about CR...

auto-x1990RS

iirc timing was sitting static at 8* right??? it wouldn't advance??

my stock Duramax spikes 25psi and comes down to 21. the big dogs run anywhere from 40psi up to 100+psi.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Project 89 how much boost do you think a 2.8/3.1 and 3.4 block could take respectively? Internals don't concern me as much since everything will be forged, heads and manifold would matter though, just curious how much boost a hybrid setup could reliably take really.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes iron heads

yes 8* btdc wouldnt rev up over 52-5,500 my cam makes its power higher then that


honestly nnone knows for sure

chvy

acceleration was nice, but the problem with copying anything from the biturbo is its notorious reputation for being one of the absolute worst engines and cars ever built by any exotic car company. I'm sure it a lot of it had to do with the 'biturbo' part too. If youre a good shopper I bet you can buy a running biturbo for about 800-1200$