Project 3.4 Camaro

Been thinking....Idk much about metal fabrication but if the parts can be joined right, I could see it maybe being possible to take 2 v6s and make a v12...forge or weld(something) two blocks together, retaining each's cooling channels and simply using two radiators, join two oil pans or fabricate a custom one, weld together 2 cranks, 2 cams...that or more likely a custom cam and crank would have to be made.
I wonder if it could viably be done or not....even using 2.8s it would be a 5.6l v12 with 270hp and 320 ft lbs of torque...would beat a 5.7....interesting when you think about that....the 2.8 actually makes more power per cube than the stock 5.7 tpis did...and 2 3.4s.....a 320 hp and 400 ft lbs of torque 6.8l....a 5.7 wouldn't even touch it...and thats using stock parts, I could see a built aluminum head 3.4 version potentially making 600 hp and 700 torque N/A....

Edit: just realized the water pump on the rear half would be an issue....maybe an external electric one if there is such a thing...

Project 3.4 Camaro

And yes I know what a modern v8 can do before anyone says it. But this would be unique as hell.....and well....its not hard finding a full 60/6 for under $300. Try finding a complete lsx for under a grand...and aftemarkets parts on lsxs are equally expensive I've noticed.

89-bird

Look at how tractor pull guys hook up two or more engines . Basicly you would only need to join two complete engines with a coupler between them and thats it . Run hoses and fuel lines to both and wiring to both and your done . I have seen an article once where a guy combined two VW engines buy cutting them apart and welding them together to make a 8cyl VW and the crank and cam were custom done to work .

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yep, I've thought about it, I even have enough space in my Datsun engine bay to do it.

I'll stick with just a single V6, at least for now.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Sure. I've seen 2 V8s merged together to make a V16, so the V12 would basically be the same build process.

Callaway V16 Link

What the tractor pullers do isn't even close to this build. They use separate engines both driving one custom gear box, to transfer the combined power to the wheels.

micktroup2

I saw one done decades ago in Hot Rod- can't remember who- and I think they put them nose to nose and had one run in reverse or something.... engineering nightmare and marvel all in one!

Apeiron

GMC beat you to it... one block, 1 crankshaft, 4 heads, 1 distributor but 2 caps and 2 coils.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Alright so I guess it could be done...but where to stuff one...I personally wouldn't want that much of it sticking past the front wheels when using the stock location...

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

ha ha ha ha ha that is amazing

what in the world could you even fit that in

robotic_junky

Small train, a generator, or a tractor.

Put a GMC 478 V6 in your car.


Put a Caddy V16 in your car. (The old one is the only one available.)
Old one


Newer one


The newer one only puts out 1,000 HP.

Apeiron

Good for heavy trucks, construction equipment, or nuclear deterrence:

FireInMe17

The Cadillac 16's engine is just that though, two V8's crammed together to form one engine. And the new one only puts out 1000hp? The old one only puts out 175! At least stock way back then.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Engines honestly have not changed all that much over the years, the only new technology I can really think of is vvt, DI, DIS and I suppose you could consider OHC configuration new technology, though tbh they aren't better than pushrod engines, each has their pros and cons.
Other than that its just been tweaks to this and that.

Apeiron

Variable valve timing and overhead cams have been around for nearly 100 years now.

What's changed are the design and evaluation tools, and the control systems.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

There isn't much new under the sun. All this stuff has been tried in various ways over the decades and often times failed and faded into oblivion, anyone remember audi's 'UFO' brakes? I've often thought of hacking up 2 blocks and welding them together. Then the reality of what would need to be done sets in and I put a turbo on something.

Project 3.4 Camaro

lol

and could you tell me about those "UFO" brakes??

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

They warped easily and sucked. It was supposed to offer better braking in a smaller package. Here's a pic.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah i looked it up, supposedly braking from 50-60 mph could help straighten them back out some, that cracked me up pretty good.

RSFreak

IIRC each of those sixes are 305cid.

89_RS

Its a single V12, not two V'6s together. Total displacement is 730ci. Its the GMC 730 V12. They just took two of everything that fits ontop a V6 and in a V6 and made a crank for it all.

The engine weighed almost 1200lbs with everything in it.

Apeiron

If you really want a pair of V6's to power your car, figure out how to do a FWD conversion up front, figure out how to get a fiero drivetrain in the rear, and tie the throttles together. It'd be a lot of work, but you'd be a whole more likely to get it to done than you would be to successfully weld two blocks and cranks together.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

That's actually kinda neat.

Kinda like combining a drum with a disc. lol

batsibf

when I saw this I was thinking you could do it but the blocks would have to be side by side with one set of exhaust manifolds (top of the engine) put together with the other set under the engine, I know I'm not describing it well, but the two blocks would be at about 60* turn from normal right or left depends on witch side it would go on, with the oil pan mod so both engines use the same pan. I'll try to get a pic of a Lego motor (once I build it and time off from work) basically the cylinders at the top of the engine would be about 30* of vertical to give room for the exhaust headers.

robotic_junky

If someone did a motor and tranny in front and back, I would use one of those fly by wire throttle body like newer vehicles use. So it would be easier to control the throttle.

The concept vehicle called the Jeep Hurricane had a a motor in the front and back.

Apeiron

You could... It's was done for decades with cables before the advent of fly-by-wire though.

novafirebirdguy

I believe Volkswagen and maybe someone else builds something similar to what your describing. They call it a W12

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Bugatti has the W16.

TomP

He's right, I remembered the same article. It was called the "Push me, pull me"- a Citation with a 2.8+transaxle in the front and a second 2.8+transaxle in the trunk.



I found the 1998 Hot Rod scanned pages here:
[edit] Wow, the links went strange so I removed them. Apparently you have to go to the main page first to see them, so, I pulled each link. Go to this main page, then scroll to the bottom and look for the four links titled ""Push Me, Pull Me" 1985 Twin Motor Citation X/11". 2 magazine scans and 2 pictures.
http://www.gt.ppdictionary.com/concept_photos.html

I'll have to go through that dusty old pile of magazines and see if I still have that issue. I don't remember the last two links (the color pictures) being part of the magazine though; I think it was something like a "top 10 GM concept cars" article, not in-depth coverage of the Push-me-pull-me car.

batsibf

yup but I was thinking it was made before '97 ( i missed a lot during the late 80's and 90's sub duty tends to do that)

TomP

OK So I fixed the links in my first message; I guess you have to go to the main page and view them from there.

Looks like the push-me pull-me X11 concept was auctioned off at Barrett-Jackson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qr3G...eature=related
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...&aid=284&pop=0 Not a bad deal for $15G!

I'm assuming this is the guy that bought it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhLAm...eature=related

He's got a few videos up, I'll watch 'em all later.

micktroup2

The one I saw was WAY back, decades ago. It was 2 v8s that had one common crankshaft, designed for drag racing I think. This is all mental gymnastics anyway- too much engineering to make it worthwhile. You would have to make some sort of girdle, top and bottom to bolt both blocks together while you had then welded, then have someone make you one each GIANT crank- and camshafts! Actually, short of the machining needed to match the blocks to each other, designing the fuel injection and ignition systems, that would be the only major problems... OH YEAH, then there is getting it into the car, having a trans that could take the power and not to mention it would weight about TWICE what a tricked out LS6 would and probably make less power! Be fun if I win the lottery, although I think aluminum V6 blocks would be a better starting point...

Zeeboinc

There's a twin engine twin turbo tiburon out on the net too. Its basically two turbo 4 bangers (one up front and one in the what used to be a trunk). Does sick 4 wheel burnouts. You can check it on youtube. I'd post a url but this damn government comp keeps blocking all the good sites on me

Mr.Franco

A friend/family member of mine did this: http://www.engineswapdepot.com/?p=915


He used a steel & rubber coupler to connect the two. It's fun as hell when he whomps on it! PM me if you are interested in the coupler.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I remember seeing that in hotrod magazine. Bet it sounds wicked!

Mr.Franco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfswV...eature=related

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ohhh, that was sexy. The view out the rear window is great lol.

Mr.Franco

http://w.ivenue.com/hendrixengineeri...t-coupler.html

Driveshaft coupler can dampen vibration and should be able to take the torque. Couple the front of one motor to the back of the other. Just make sure your at TDC on both motors before ignition.

83Berli

That looks pretty sweet, someone makes some real bank to afford the gas. You know he isn't running 93 octane in that thing.