92camarorv6

hi im going to do a 3800 gtp motor swap in to my camaro.
been thinking about it for year's and ways to fix the issues i could run up on, oil pan is one need a fbody setup ,then the starter (can you flip flop it?),next is the water neck no issue just make a hard line like a fiero ,next the tranny i can use a 60*t5 tranny right ? with the metric bellhousing(but there's that darn starter issue again) then motor mounts can i use a older 3.8 (3800 dose it have the spots to mount it up ?) to make it more of a drop in setup motor wise ?? and other issue i may have not thot of ?. thank's for any help

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

You'll have to figure out the blower piping as well, you would be better off just getting a V8 T5, bellhousing and spline count should be the same.

Guest

Guys, come on. Start using proper punctuation. Employing punctuation makes reading your posts much, much easier.

Fallen2603

A) All 3800's, whether FWD or RWD, should have mounting bosses on the sides of the block for longitudinal mounting.

B) For the transmission bellhousing, you'll probably need to use the bellhousing off a 3800-equipped 4th-Gen F-body to make the starter work. However, this will probably require you to use the T5 from a V6 4th-Gen F-body, since they are different from all the T5's that came in the 3rd-Gen.

C) Like mentioned before, you'll have to do something to route the supercharger inlet. This might provide a bit of a template for what you'd have to do:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thr...f-bird.352126/
Post #10 will show you what you'll have to do to the supercharger to make it work in your application.

92camarorv6

ok so what if i stayed with my 700r4 ? and can i use just the later 96-02 fbody mounts ?

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Not sure if the crossmember is the same. That's something you'd have to get under both cars for. You'll also wanna check the speedo gear and see if that is the same.

Either way, your 60*6 transmission will not bolt to a 90*6.

Fallen2603

A) Sticking with an automatic would be easier, but I'm not sure if you'd be able to use your 700R4. They should both have the same GM Metric bellhousing pattern, but I'm not sure if the starter location would still be an issue. It almost sounds like it would be easier to get a complete drivetrain out of a 4th-Gen 3800 V6 F-body.

B) I have no idea about using 4th-Gen mounts. Maybe, if you got the complete drivetrain out of a 4th-Gen, you could get the mounts with it. Then see if that lines up right. If not, since these motors are 90* V6's, maybe you could rig something up with some SBC 3rd-Gen mounts.

92camarorv6

do you guy's really know what your talking about or guessing what happen to all the smart older guy's,from what i read alot of what i have will be bolt in

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Doing a 3800 swap is far from a bolt on process.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Agreed, I'd go with the 4th gen drivetrain.
No, we have absolutely no clue what we are talking about. Let us learn from you oh car god.
This.

Fallen2603

This will not be a bolt-in process. I'm pretty sure I never said that. Some of the components will work with what you have, and others will not. There will be some mixing and matching required.

The 4th-Gen F-body 3800 V6, with transmission and mounts, will probably be the best place to start. Your 3rd-Gen driveshaft and rear-end should work no problem with that set-up. Gears not withstanding. The mounts could work, or they might not. I don't know.

Once you have the mounts figured out, you can decide on how to do forced-induction. You can modify a GTP supercharger set-up to work on top of the F-body 3800, or you can go turbo just by flipping the exhaust manifolds from side to side and fabbing a custom Y-pipe to the turbo.

The wiring and ECU/ECM/PCM will be fun to integrate as well. I say "fun" in a very sarcastic tone, because that will not be easy.

Not a "bolt-in", but some parts will be easier than most.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

tranny k-mbr is the same. external parts that will need to be fabbed are: engine-motor mount brackets ( i fabbed up a model had welding shop make for $80) and a y-pipe.

Wiring was a bytch, using an 85 car, 87 (firebird) gauges, 95 engine/tranny harness/pcm. make sure you have schematics/pin-outs for everything, i even made my own fuse box for the engine compartment.

92camarorv6

can i use the pre 98 3800 v6 camaro motor mounts ? maybe

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

I would think they were the same. But I am not sure.

Fallen2603

This guy should become your best-friend-in-the-whole-wide-world if you're going to do this swap because he actually did this swap before.

92camarorv6

ok the only thing im worryed about is the tranny will a 700r4 it the one i am using now and what about my t5 im using now ,and if not how will the 3800 t5 fit in there from the 4 gen

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Your stock 700R4 isn't going to work. Bellhousing and input shaft are different, same with a third gen V6 T-5.

The T-5 from a 4th gen will work, as far as I know they are the same besides the input shaft and bellhousing.

Fallen2603

I'm assuming you're asking if the 4th-Gen T5 will fit in your 3rd-Gen...?

If so, it'll fit in your car just like your current T5. The differences between the 3rd-Gen T5 and the 4th-Gen T5 are the case, which is the Ford style and gives it a different bellhousing-face bolt-pattern, and the input-shaft is longer than the 3rd-Gen T5. The 4th-Gen T5 will even sit at an angle like your current T5.

If you got an automatic out of a 4th-Gen, it should fit in there the same way as an automatic in a 3rd-Gen.

92camarorv6

yes

92camarorv6

got a ? will the 4 gen headers fit the 3 gen camaro's im looking for long tubes

Project: 85 2.8 bird

define "fit". I had the 98+ factory "headers", long tube manifolds and they hit the subframes. the frames on the 3rd gen angle in at the back of the engine bay and decrrease clearence. If i stayed w/the 95+ factory ugly looking *****'s it wouldn't be an issue as they don't stick out as far. If ou want to weld up a kit then it shouldn't be an issue.

92camarorv6

what do you mean they had stock headers and not cast iron mainafolds

Project: 85 2.8 bird

95-97 3800 exhaust manifolds



98+ exhaust headers

92camarorv6

the older ones looks like rams horn's how do they flow

Project: 85 2.8 bird

outputs staye the same, but c'mon, which design looks better..... the newer ones stick out from the heads more, thus the clearence issues.

92camarorv6

the older ones look more like the stock 3.1 headers nice

92camarorv6

so im waiting on my motor reading alot of info on other forums and this forum ,trying to weed out the bul poop post and the truth it can be really hard at time's

this is my plan so far i want to use the stock 95-97 3800 manifolds ,the 95-97 motor mounts and the 95-97 front pully setup an then ill have to come up with some kinda intake

Project: 85 2.8 bird

no 3rd or 4th gen mount will work, gotta fab them. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...-brackets.html looks like the link for pics is back up. will call tomorrow.

92camarorv6

ok im happly waiting that call man

Project: 85 2.8 bird

http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=18128 not sure if you need to register to see it or not, some pics of engine in car, not on cardomain site

http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=20644

williemcfly

Would those 98+ manifolds bolt up to our 660's? (3.1)?

mars061

no, lol, look at the bolt holes they are side to side instead of up and down.

92camarorv6

Project: 85 2.8 bird do you have the rear outs on the motor outs like the sizes and all

Project: 85 2.8 bird

cain ya restate the question please

92camarorv6

um not sure how to say it but do you have masterments on the brackets so i can make my own set like the tep lets

Killert

iTrader: (9)

Whats a masterment?

Fallen2603

No offense 92camarorv6, but you really need to learn how to spell and use at least a modicum of grammar. It would help us help you more efficiently.

85f-bird

I don't see this project going forward based on what I'm reading.

Out of curiosity, 92, why are you wanting to build a GTP 3.8L car? The work involved (in stock form) will not be overly spectacular, and you could swap to a cheap LS motor just as well (say, 4.8L or 5.3L engine). Do that engine, with a carb setup, ditch the electronics, and have 280-315 horsepower out of the box.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Or just turbo it

Project: 85 2.8 bird

really, L67 long block, f-bod intake maniold w/turbo or a s/c (yes, there are kits out there for it) do the wiring, motor mount, exhaust & get a tune.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

here are some 3800 97 mounts, they stick out pretty far






here is it's T5

92camarorv6

i don't want to have a ls motor in my car and roll up to a show and see 2 or 3 more just like it that i and i like the v6s don't ask me why i just do ,and i was trying to ask 2.8 firebird what the dimensions were of the motor mounts he made up were so i could make a copy

broke91firebird

AHEM!!!!! I am also looking into doing this swap, and I havepretty much stopped asking questions on this forum for this very reason!!! If I wanted a 350 I would take the spare 350 in the garage and build it!! If you want something special it is always possible it you really want it. I say go for it!!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

not a clue as to what the dimensions were, I just mocked up the mounts in carboard. I also reused the 2.8 mounts, V8 mounts/positions may work better, but I reused what I could.

92camarorv6

well darn this will be fun and ill be posting on here motor is on way

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

The 660 and the 3800 have the same metric bell housing bolt pattern.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Subscribed...

92camarorv6

well the 3800 is junk 80 bucks wasted buddy game me a 305 tpi motor free and a 700r4 kinda want to just drop a 350 tpi in there after the bad dealings and prochager it

boostedbowtie29

Will the v6 camaro tranny bolt up to a gtp motor? I don't care about figment or mounting points just need to know if they both rotate in the same direction and they will fit together? Thx for any help you can provide

Fallen2603

Refer to posts #4 and #7.