InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

With those limitied mods, you don't need 30 lb injectors. You probably bought those without talking to someone who could help you out.

See, this is where price ends and value begins.

Clearly no one in this thread values my spending time on the phone helping them with their configuration and making sure their money and time are well spent. I have spent more time talking people OUT of buying stuff, developing new products, and helping people with specs, saving them time, money, and aggrivation.

This way they don't wind up with a setup like you have. The runners and base were money well spent. 30 LB injectors and a 58MM TB were a complete waste of money. Now you're going to spend money on a tune to try to get those to work? Good thing you saved $100 on injectors. But again, no value.

Had you called me, I would have saved you a bunch of money on injectors and a throttle body you didn't need, but I would have gotten more money for a better set of injectors.

SO like I said, I guess my picking up the phone, spending hours giving advice, input, direction, and recommendations, agree with them or not, is not time well spent. Because at the end of the day, everyone is going to shop EBAY for POS products that are cheap.

Which, is fine.....just don't call me looking for advice if that's how you're going to buy.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Two last questions....

1. Since when was "fast shipping" such a great sign of customer service? Isn't that BASIC response? I see that all the time, and again here. SHIPPED FAST! I have to ask....SO WHAT? That's standard business practice and IMO does not deserve praise.

2. Anyone want to see the pics and video of these POS injectors running or am I just wasting my time?

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Haven't you made yourself look like enough of a fool yet? Do I really need to continue posting and make more of an *** out of you than what you've already done?
A good deal is a good deal and you can't beat it so take off before this gets any worse for you.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Do you own that company? It's not a better deal, the product is junk. See, that's my problem. You say it's the SAME THING, and well, it's not.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Sure it was.

No, I have nothing at all to do with the company. I simply bought my injectors from there and am standing up for the good deal I got.
When you can get a completely independent lab to confirm your injectors are worth $100 more than the ones I bought, I'll believe it.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I changed it. I figured you were "assman" (Seinfeld reference) Look, that was an accident. I am sorry.

OK, just never saw someone get so worked up over something they have no interest in.

You got cheap injectors cheap. Nothing wrong with that, I just don't like the comparison. Again, the major comapanies in this business have the similar pricing, there's a reason for that.

Snap-on, Harbour Freight.

$75 ratched, vs, $5 ratchet. no difference? REALLY?

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

I was never trying to make a comparison in this thread, I was simply trying to spread the word on where some cheap injectors could be found. Your the one who came on and starting making comparisons.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. Otherwise the inplication is "these are the same" and they aren't. You found cheap injectors cheap. If that's what people want FINE. That is not my business. I don't sell garbage. I sell proven, demonstrated parts. I am putting injectors into 200 HP Pro Charged Harley Davidsons with one of the top HD guys in the country. My prices are DOUBLE what someone else is, BUT, MY CRAP WORKS and he puts them in every bike. I am doing work for a PWC race team. They use and sell my injectors, and not because they are cheap. It's not about cheap.

Go look in the TBI section. I spent nearly $1000 doing R&D in wasted injectors to bring 140LB injectors to this market for the TBI guys. That's just in parts, do you think my time has no value? Then someone orders them and knocks them off for 1/2 the price because he has nothing invested, and you want to go to them? You deserve each other in my book.

I could have just made the argument, but I wanted to prove it. Seriously, I would MUCH rather have this discussion than a discussion just SAYING they can't be the same.

No one has to believe it. I know I'd be skeptical about me too.

When I was building my house, the plumber came in with faucets at $200 each for the bathrooms.

I said HD has the same faucet for $50.

So, I go buy the HD faucet. The internals were all plastic, not brass. The handle was chrome plated plastic, not metal.

There were a TON of differences. I was wrong. They looked the same, but they weren't the same.

You can validate this faucet story too. Go to a plumbing supply house and HD and see the differences.

I didn't want to leave the impression it was the same, it's not. I don't see what is wrong with that.

If other vendors choose not to draw that distinction and leave people with the impression they are all the same, it's just price, that's up to them. If they are happy just saying "yeah they're cheaper we're all the same, but we ship fast"....ok, it's their business. I prefer to point out it's not all the same.

I am trying to explain the value me and my company brings to the table.

I spend most of my career working with people who drag race, where quality mattes, 2000-3000 HP cars. Maybe I'm just accustomed to a different demographic. People who know what good parts are and are willing to spend for it. I'm not saying anyone here needs a $1500 fuel pump. But I am saying I wouldn't put a $10 pump in my car. There's a middle ground where quality and price meet.

I mean, and hold NO hard feelings toward you or anyone here.

I'm simply trying to say there's a difference in what I offer, starting with advice, tech support, planning, input on builds, all the way to a better product. Call the guy with the $80 injectors and ask him to help you out with your build. Does he even have a phone?

Like I said, guess it's the demographic here. Everyone knows it all because the heard it on the interweb and they throw money at a whole bunch of cheap parts instead of good money at the right parts....

What can I tell ya?

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

I know exactly what you are trying to say and that is fine, but you are going about it the wrong way if you want to prove a point. you are alienating potential customers and making yourself look bad with this argument and your best bet is to just stop now and let it go, trust me on this.
I understand that you feel your product is worth the money you are asking, but not everybody can afford that nowofdays is the point I want to make.
Now I for one would never spend $180 for something I can get for $80 and thats just me and the way I work. Call me cheap or whatever, but thats just how I do things. The injectors I got for $80 work perfectly well and I have no complaints on them and I feel you can't beat that for less than half the price of the competition. Sure, you may supposedly offer a better rebuild and all that on the ones you sell, but the point is not everybody can afford the best of everything when they want some more HP out of their cars or when their car is broke down and needing something immediately on a tight budget.
If anything goes wrong with my injectors anytime soon I will post up and tell you that you were right, but until then I'm cruising around and enjoying my GTA with my cheapo injectors.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Those who know me know that ain't happening, the horse still twitched... I'm not sure how else TO prove my point. I ordered the injectors, and wanted to see what was offered for $80. Ask the guys who called me off this board and we reviewed their goals and came up with a plan. Like I said, I saved one guy $400 he was buying unnecessary crap, crap that I sell. On another forum, a guy wanted a "custom chip" and would have bought it from me. I said NO, with his mods a chip made no sense. I told him in no uncertain terms I'll take his money if he insists, but advise against it. Do I sound like someone trying to soak everyone for every last dime? REALLY?

I'm not sure how I'm looking bad... I'm providing a public service. Demonstrating that you get what you pay for and if it's too cheap to be true, it probably is. Do you have the right to say it's biased? Sure you do. Take it or leave it....but to accuse me of ALTERING what I had received is bull ****. You don't have to believe the results, but do NOT question my integrity. I opened the box and reported what I found.


See, that right there is the issue I have, you are not getting something for $80 that you can get for $180. They are NOT THE SAME PRODUCT. Just as a Snap on 1/2 inch driver, is not the same as a Harbor Freight chinese made ratchet. They simply aren't the same.


No, again, you keep framing the argument that this is my "competition". They are not, they sell junk, they don't sell the same quality product. You said you're not making a comparison, but YOU ARE!

You say they work perfectly, but how do you know that? The car was running like CRAP with the bad injectors that were in there, so even if you had 6 or 7 working injectors it would be perfect by comparison. But they aren't flow matched, and may or not flow what they claim.

I'll go this far, I'll send you a set of my injectors and you can see how your car can really run. I'll go into my pocket and do it. How do you know your car just isn't running better than the failed injectors you had but not optimum?

There you go again, making a comparison. I am the first one to say do it as cheap as you can, but I have learned the hard way, and EXPENSIVE WAY there is typically a high cost of being cheap. HP cost money, and honestly, if money is that tight, without giving a personal finance lecture, perhaps consider how wise it is if you can't do it CHEAP RIGHT instead of CHEAP CHEAP.

I hope nothing goes wrong, I figure there's three options:

1. They were simply better than the broken junk you had.
2. You got a set that may be closer than others, we don't know because they weren't tested seems to be a crap shoot.
3. you don't know how good your car can really run, maybe your standards are based on compromise rather than perfection.

Again, if you want to do the work, I'll send you a set FREE and I bet the car runs better.

Another thing, I do a lot of work in the Polaris Razor space. For two race teams. When injectors get lost in the mail, I replace them no charge. When the first set we made, and the second, and the third, didn't work (because it was an R&D case) we kept sending out injectors NO CHARGE. Tell me how I provide that level of service making no money on anything else?

You see NO VALUE in all the other aspects my company and myself bring to the table? It's just all about bottom line? That's fine. Maybe I'll just start charging for tech support...

YOU may not see value in this, but I can provide references from people who have been through their builds from beginning to end with us, and will with out question attest to the level of competence and service we bring to the table. Try that with your $80 guy...

87IROCZ350TPI

Don't know what else to say. Good luck with this one, Budfreak1, guess us bunch of "kids" don't know what were talking about. Here, tell ya what, you are absolutely right about all that there is to be right about. Hate to be a dick, but when in Rome.....

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

No need to get hostile. Right here in this thread you have a guy calling BOSCH injectors SEIMANS and another guy putting 30LB injectors in a car with an intake and over sized worthless throttle body. If that's not a demographic that needs some help and guidance I don't know what is.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Hahaha, now you Sir drive a hard bargain and I respect that.
I know how my car should run as this is not my first L98 thirdgen and it runs pretty damn flawless if you ask me after the cars I have beaten with it and the fact I get 20 MPG average, but I'm willing to take you up on your offer if you can do this: You send me a set of superram gaskets with the injectors since I have to go through the trouble of tearing the damn thing apart and putting it back together. I think you know what I mean since you've had one that it is not fun to do and alot of work.
I don't want to be a hardass or a dick or anything like that since your willing to send me some injectors for free which is very cool of you, but that intake is no damn fun to tear apart and reinstall and I don't really want to do it again unless I must. Plus I am on a tight budget that doesn't have room for $45 worth of unnecessary gaskets right now just to try to confirm what you say. If you can't do that I understand and I will still take the injectors, but it might be a little while before I can afford to install them is all and I probably won't have results until next spring since I put my car away for the winter which is very soon here in Ohio.
If you'd like to work it out and talk about it, send me a PM and we'll end this here for now.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

The other side of the deal is you send me back your existing injectors so I can test them. My number is listed give me a call tomorrow evening (I'm going out with customers tonight). Second is if I get the gaskets, you have to swap it out sooner, or we'll wait till next season, the offer remains open. I'm taking a huge leap of faith here that you'll report accurately, but I'm convinced the difference will be noticeable enough that we'll get the right answer.

I'm just a little guy trying to get along, and this is money out of my pocket. I am trying to put my money where my mouth is to make the point.

We'll work it out.

BTW, STUD the Super Ram and you'll have a much better result getting it on and off. I KNOW what a PIA it is.

I had a set of SR gaskets laying around, let me see what I can find. I'll need a couple weeks to go through my shop. I'm not optimistic, but I'll see what I can do. Either way, we'll make it work.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Sounds good to me. If you can't find the SR gaskets, Summit sells them.
I'll give you a call tomorrow evening and we'll work it out.

Nelz

InjectorsPlus, I certainly appreciate you spending the time, and good faith to flow these "ebay" injectors. And for everyone else on the board, he really didn't need to spend the $80 and the couple hours on a flow bench doing this for us. If you take your injectors to get flow tested, it usually cost $$$. Thank you for taking one for the team. I appreciate the value you bring to the board.

Would you please post the pics and videos of the POS injectors and compare them to a "good" set of injectors that I could buy from you or any other good re-builder. Since I'm naive (I usually buy new) about rebuilt injectors, would you please show us visually what's the difference between crap injectors and a good rebuild and explain the benefits of a good set of injectors vs. a cheap rebuild?

I know that a balanced and matched set can make a world of difference in terms of horsepower and mileage. Also, am I right to say that if it Ohms right, it still may not flow the rated #? (Most of us don't have access to a flow bench.) What else should I watch out for and what are the small nuances that make an injector crap and good?

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I know it seems biased, and me, myself I'd be skeptical. But I just posted what I found. I have the video and will post. I am traveling out of the country next week and I am scurrying to get things together, so when I get back I'll put them up, unless I can squeeze in a few minutes to get it done.

Sure, see above.

Yes. Even if the ohms are right, doesn't mean the flow is correct.

As to what to look out for...like anything else it's a matter of the care taken in the rebuild and the parts used. Care manifests itself in visual ways and starts with a good core. It's like the old saying for pornography. I know it when I see it.

Doom86

Sometimes the truth is ugly why does a guy have to deliver it soft to make it ok? Personally it sounds like Injectorsplus takes pride and interest in injectors and was a bit insulted by the garbage.

Someone had success someone else didn't. It doesn't mean anyone's wrong, it sounds like a inconsistent product which is usually what you get going bottom barrel.

85Z28NOS

iTrader: (2)

I asked the difference between them because the injectors on the ebay add stated they were Siemens, but were pictured as Bosch. I actually recieved Bosch just to clear that up. I actually bought a set from FIC as well to try out and compare for myself. Money is a big concern for most people so I would like to think that a professionals opinion would be greatly appreciated. I have a great job and an understang wife that allows me to spend $100 wk on my car for what ever I want, so if that is on a set of junk injectors just to see if they are worth running, I dont mind. I do value your findings on the ones you tested and for one would like to see the video of the spray patterns. I also would like to know if you would test the 30lbs ones I purchased and compare them to the test sheet they sent me. I am still waiting on my set from FIC so I cant comment on them till I see them. Yes, all my tools are Snap-On, I even went and bought a Modus just to have. No I am not a certified auto mechanic , I do it just for a passion I have with fast cars.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. If you want me to double check them for you, not a problem. I'll respond to your PM.

Thanks for the support guys.

bravo91bird

Thank you for your input, however condescending it may be. I forgot to mention the thumper cam and 190cc aluminum heads and the port matching of EVERY top end component that I have done. Not to mention the custom burned chip I installed (thanks to this board I did it myself). Maybe if you weren't so hostile towards people they would talk to you on the phone. Thanks for assuming everyone on here but you has no idea what they're doing.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Just wondering, how are the results? What does the car run?

The throttle body was still a waste of money.

Hostile is what? When someone says "can you do that for $10 an injector" isn't hostile? Indicating the product is the same? You think that isn't hostile? Really? I had no choice but to put up and order a set and see what $10 gets you. So I did.

I understand the skepticism. But I have PROVEN it not only to myself but the numbers of people who read this thread and have purchased injectors from me as a result. Thanks!

I'm anything but hostile. But that being said, I don't take **** either.

I have one of these in my garage:
http://www.harborfreight.com/11-draw...net-67421.html

Sitting right next to one of these:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...&blockType=G16

I'll take the picture if you want. If I start telling you the $200 Harbor Freight set is the same as the $1000 Craftsman.....well no point... ya know. Go into Sears and make that comparison, let me know if they laugh you out of the store. Tell the guy looking at the $1000 cabinet HF has one for $200. He should go get that. And please, record it on video for me.

I'm like a bee hive. Leave me alone, I'll make honey and be productive for you. Jab me with a stick and I get pissy. Telling me some $10 POS is the same as what we do, is hostile. I think if you go through this thread, the initial hostility was toward me, not from me. Perhaps re direction of your anger is in order.

And no, I said there's a lot of brilliant people here on this board. You must have missed that part. Who ever you listened to when you purchased that throttle body, should be shot. I don't know who's worse, the person who recommended it or the person who listens..but hey, you saved a few bucks on inferior injectors but you got a cool throttle body. Just making the point about good and bad information and decisions. I like to help people make good decisions based on total knowledge. A stock throttle body and good injectors you'd still have a couple extra bucks in your pocket and a better running car.

If everything you did was based on input of this board, how do you only have 2 posts? Seems inconsistent with the claim. Just sayin...

Anyway, my offer stands when budfreak is ready he'll let me know.

bravo91bird

First, I NEVER, told anyone to follow my example. The thread asked what people were running, injector wise, in their motors. I'm sorry that you feel strongly against my setup. second, you only get credit for posts, not reading them, that's why my rating is low. I don't post often because of ignorant people who shoot off their mouths without doing their research first. Finally, I have no idea what the car runs, never ran it at a strip or done theoretical calculations. I built the car for the street, where it is driven every day with no problems. flow numbers and smart@55 input only go so far, the setup works great, no matter how much you claim it doesn't. So, Mr. Bee hive, don't quote my posts as the wrong thing to do unless you have done it, and it did not work for you. Sincerely, Mr. Bug spray.

xch3no2

Nice to get another educated, experienced evaluation Gatorlsaac.

I think anyone outside this conversation can see the distinct position of each of you.

John's test was at his own cost for both his & our knowledge benefit.

I truly hope that none of you guys, budfreak1, Gatorlsaac & maybe others that bought injectors from that slimeball hack have any problems with them.

I hope this evaluation & other advice by InjectorsPlus helps many make more informed decisions.
He has been honest & fair about his TRUE competitors.

I have yet to talk to, or do any business w/ InjectorsPlus as my requirements are truly those that are on the bleeding edge, driving the industry. It's true,
I come from the land of exotic fuel in mind-numbing volume, @ 115psi & 1.7:1 afr's.

R&D is a long & costly process, at least there are those willing to invest the time, effort and capital on such a nitch market.

Enough disbelief & sour grapes over learning the truth.

I don't know how you, budfreak, could accept in good conscience this mans offer to PAY YOU to to accept the truth...and then FURTHER,.. demand gaskets!

bravo91bird

I bought my injectors brand new from autopartswholesale.com. Not rebuilt, new. I don't know how I got roped in with the discussion on rebuilt ones.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

OOPS, I had you confused with GatorIssiac who said "I was the other guy".. My mistake. After you hit 40 it's straight down hill, the last couple years have been hell.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Doom, I waited a day to respond to clear my head. It's hard enough to make a living, and it's even harder when people suck you dry for tech support and information then go to the cheapest place to buy stuff. As if experience, expertise, information, and input has no value.

It's the same thing as people who pull their car into your shop and ask for a "free" diagnosis, then go to autozone to get the parts and fix it themselves.

And you know what, that's just part of doing business, I suck it up daily. As far as I'm concerned if you want to buy from them, go get your tech support from them. Fair enough? I like helping people, I know money is tight, and I do my best to try to help people spend money wisely. I can point you to numerous people who WANTED to buy stuff from me and I said NO because they didn't need it. But if they INSIST I can't stop stupid but I can profit from it...

All I can say is if people are so enthralled with companies because they are "CHEAP" and "SHIP FAST" (two bull **** criteria in my book) I probably don't want them for customers anyway. "SHIP FAST" is a term than has come from the ebay-i-zation of consumerism. I ship everything same/next day except for custom work. THAT IS STANDARD PRACTICE. I don't see it as a big deal worth exalting. As a consumer, my criteria would be "knowledgeable and gives good advice" over shipping fast, but that's me.

The bar has been set so low today as to what constitutes good service and what doesn't that SHIPPING qualifies as a big bonus? I'm probably the only vendor, in my space at least, that has turned a wrench on this forum. The only one who has done ALL the stupid things and spent ALL the stupid money learning the hard way. I destroyed my engine by dropping a screw down the injector hole if that doesn't teach you a thing or two..... I've been there, I've done it. Not just one engine either, I've had C3 corvettes, camaros, newer corvettes, boats, bikes, pretty much anything with a motor. I have made the mistakes, I have the knowledge and experience. Does that not have value? And on top of that, I put out the best dam product in the market.

This isn't my first rodeo, I've been around this a long time. I know people in the industry, I bring those contacts to the table. Need NOS, I'll get you a personal introduction to Steve Johnson. Need something from World, Dart, Profiler, Motorvation, etc.... I can help out. But don't throw me under the bus for $20 is all I ask.

No one wants cheap Chinese goods, yet everyone will shop at Wal Mart to save a buck.

Anyway, I digress. I purchased cores from a customer here who gave me an order. They were good cores and I gave him a credit of $5 a core. This guy is selling his injectors for $9 each. $4 per injector profit BEFORE having to pay someone to do the work, turn on the lights, pay for the phone, if that's the case, I'm out of business. Good cores don't come cheap, something had to be wrong.

I appreciate the understanding of my position by many of you. It reinforces that I'm doing the right thing.

Rant off.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Thanks.

Thanks, I actually started doing this on Yellow Bullet. I sell more 160s and 220s than anything else, sometimes 24 per car (three per cyl in progressive delivery setups) for guys putting down 3000 HP on alcohol. I'd love to hear what you're doing.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

It's real easy and it's like this: I have an Accel SuperRam intake and it is not studded or anything. It got installed the hard way with good ole fashion bloody knuckles and I don't see why I should uninstall it and reinstall it at my own cost just to prove whether his injectors are better or not. I am currently self employed in a tiny market and can not afford to just spend 45 dollars all willynilly when I have mouths to feed and bills to pay.
I explained this to injectorsplus via PM and I'm sure he understands where I'm coming from which is all that is really important in this situation.

I will put the car down sometime in the next month and then I will get the injectors and gaskets from injectorsplus and install them. If I feel any difference in the idle or see any difference in my scanner readings from it idling in the garage I will post them. Once spring comes I will take the car out and post up my impressions on if it runs better or not. I also plan to mark down some before and after readings from my OTC4000 scanner and record the results on this forum for all to see.
What values do you all recommend I record that will show a difference in the way it runs? O2 readings? Inj. pulse width? Should I do a recording at idle and at 55 cruising? I also have tunerpro RT on my laptop and a cable to plug it into the car, but the laptop is currently broken so I will have to use my OTC4000 scanner and just jot down numbers unfortunately.

85Z28NOS

iTrader: (2)

I recieved the set of 22lb injectors from fuel injection connection today and was not as impressed with then as i was the 30lb injectors i recieved from precision fuel injection. the injectors appear to have been washed in a parts washer, when i put a q-tip in the opening the tip of it came out black as if only the outside was cleaned and not the inside? Cannot prove this , this is just an observation as a personal buyer. I inluded pics of both sets of injectors and you can tell which were the better pair even though the price difference was only minimal($52+sh for FIC & $76+sh for PFI, ebay bid pricing) The PFI came in a sealed bag with a flow sheet from testing and the FIC came rolled in bubble wrap and still showing internal signs of dirt. will find out more later since both sets are for different motors.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Both those companies typically do a decent job. If you still want me to check and inspect them, let me know.

cuisinartvette

When you buy rebuilt parts expect to find some dirt in them it happens





Tempting, this is almost too good to leave alone..but I will.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Not if it's done right. Like you said in another thread, there's a reason they're cheap....don't worry, I book marked that...

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

WOW i never expected to get so much info out of this thread Thanx everyone specially vendors dedicated to show their customers what really goes on behind closed doors...

I decided to go with the bosch 3 and i gotta say i did noticed a difference... now i gotta replace fuel pump so im starting a thread for suggestions, i hope it gets as much interest as this one