To finish my thought,in my history I helped a younger person build a car.He's no longer with us after the crash.At the funeral his father clearly blamed me and ask me to leave.That left a impression on me for my whole life.It is not a position I would want any of your guys to ever be put in.Any of you go fast guys already is one thing,but a newbie on his really first build is quite something else.

 

if i was to get a custom solid roller how often wud i be adjusting valves, what kinda stall would i need, earlier in the convo i take u guys think i need to be in the high 500s to low 600 lift which could easily be 7000 rpms to get the power from my heads ,and what size carb or since im so young, would going and gettin a holley projection system justify the $2200 it cost just for the ease and effieceny

 

stall depends on the cam selection. If you got a solid roller on the street you'de want to check your valve lash every few thousand miles (with GOOD lifters and high quality synthetic oil). Don't get that injection setup.. just run a carb and be done with it. I already gave you my carb suggestion.

 

how many core radiator and cfm fan would you guys suggest for something like this, and would you guys do the suspension first or intake or cam or just save and do it all at 1 time

 

....or do a hydro roller. set it once, and drive it 100,000 miles.
4 core copper rad or whatever aluminum core came stock in a tpi/lt1/ls1 fbody.
stock lt1/ls1 electric fans would work.


for a street car dont worry so much about suspension. if you want it to run well at the track, focus on suspension and dont worry so much about the engine.

 

3 or 4 core all aluminum rad and dual electric fans. If you want some cheap good fans, go with a 95 ford taurus fan shroud and fans, there should be some threads on here about them.

 

Hey bear41666, punctuation is a little nice every now and again. I'm gonna be honest, you sound ignorant. Thats really not a bad thing as long as you seek to remedy it. I got a bunch of free parts from a guy who had done a mild build on an S10. Heads, crank, cam, pistons, rods, oil pump, intake manifold. It was awesome. I threw them on my car (properly and with patience) and I ended up making almost 450 rwhp. Those parts were the most mismatched sons of bitches I've ever had the displeasure of knowing, but at the time I didn't realize it. Moral of the story: By the grace of God those parts gave me the power that they did. So you might get lucky. Might not.

 

I doubt they were mismatched at all considering you replaced almost everything but the block.

 

Bear, do you see why people's OPINIONS cause problems? Everyone has different ideas what works for them. Before you go out buying stuff all over again, just sit down and READ.. and when you're done - READ MORE. I personally don't mind messing with valve lash.. it's not difficult and the power gains are worth it to me. Other guys don't want to think about it at all. That's based on opinions on what works for them, not facts..

Instead of asking what, you need to be asking why. Anyone can plug parts in a motor, but not everyone understands why these things work together like they do. That's also something that takes patience because you don't gain that overnight.

 

Totally agreed.You get after awhile on these forums to be a pretty good judge of people.From Bear's posts so far,I don't see him to be a good match to a solid lifter anything and adjusting valve lash.It's the patience part of I doubt.Some guys are born tinkers enjoying the mechanic's and others want the go fast part and forget get it.

Hell if Bear really wants to capitalizes all the elements of a solid roller,get a set of forged pistons the end up with 12.5 or more compression and do the additive to pump gas or racing gas.Nawww.

Be very sure the way the performance business works as you move up in scale,it costs alot more.And is cams the scale works like this.Flat tappet hydro,solid lifter,roller lifter hydro,to solid lifter roller.Each requiring their own "kit" to make them work as designed.

You can try to make a informed decision based on personal experiences from forums like this one,(but that is somewhat limited in scope because you would be hard pressed to find two builds exactly alike),you should do the REQUIRED reading/research so you know what is being offered is valuable or not and you know what questions to ask,many of the really good cam companies have a tech dept who's sole purpose is to advise customers what combo to use.And because you have done the required reading and research,you can tell if said cam company is just trying to sell you parts or it is some that you really need.

Now what suggestions I have made to Bear is I think he would be perfectly happy with 400hp to 450hp at the flywheel.No way that would need a very expensive solid roller cam.Let alone the kit it needs too.

Bear-a natural thing about these forums is for us all to want to see someone build the baddest,fastest,best parts,engine.Thing is none of us is spending our money,rather we are helping you spend yours.None of us have to do the maintenance that you might because of the choices you made.None of us have to look at the damm thing setting in the driveway needing to be repaired with more money.And none of us(worst case)are force to sell it off because of the suggestions got you in too deep and you now need the money.I want for you to go a route that keeps it simple and AFFORDABLE.So you finish it and enjoy it.

Bear make no doubt about me.If it where a case of building a really fast car in the sense of a hot rod/drag car,I would suggest how to do that.I dare say I am running faster than any other poster involved in a mountain motor BBC running deep into the 7's on the bottle.That has taken yrs and yrs to get to that point.

 

As I think more about this,the greatest respect I have is guys the know how much they could have,but made a informed decision.Ya know "that guy" who's car is a smooth as silk idle,but when he hits the gas,oh boy are we going for a ride.Just by talking to him,you know he knows what he is doing and with in the range of his build,you kind of know he found something he isn't telling you.Well his private secrets.

 

you made 450rwhp with mismatched parts that were destined to be a mild build? what was the engine, a 572 bbc?

 

its not just checking the lash for me, its also the more expensive lifters, stiffer springs, and the additional wear and tear the heavy springs can cause. if the solid cam has smaller, not so aggressive lobes on it that stuff wont be much of a problem. but if you are running smaller lobes like that, might as well run a hydro roller. putting big 1.55" or bigger valvesprings on a stock type head or even some aftermarket heads may require machining the spring pockets so you'll have enough room for the spring to sit, as well as enough installed height. you'll want 7/16" studs on the rockers. if you drive your car 2-3k miles a year i doubt youll have much trouble out of a solid roller setup, but for a daily driver type car, i would go with the hydro for reliabilty, and since you wont notice the ~10rwhp your missing from the solid cam of roughly the same size. run stock type hydro roller lifters, and put the money you saved towards heads.

but, as mentioned, this is all my opinion. everyone has their own.

 

I realized afterwards it looks like I was targeting you. That wasn't my intention. I was implying there's 14 different ways of doing things right I'm actually with you after seeing a few more of his responses.. I think he would be best with a cam that offers NOT messing with since he's still asking very basic questions.. aka: get a hydraulic roller and be done with it.

Bear, like Gary said.. it's easy to talk when it's not your money. We're here to help, but ultimately you need to be honest with yourself.. what do YOU want?
Even for me, it's a big adjustment. I went from a stock LS1/stock converter Firebird to a realistic 490 flywheel HP full suspension Camaro with a big converter. Night and day difference and demands responsible behavior unless you plan on hurting someone.

You need to do some reading. We don't mind giving recommendations on stuff but I honestly can't stand it when people ask for stuff and have 0 desire to know WHY.. simply because you're in a position of ignorance to potentially send someone else the wrong way if you choose to do that. That's what happened to me, and I'm still in college.. I don't have the feasible income to just be throwing down the drain like some of these guys do. That was my mistake.. learning from someone who is giving out opinions claiming as fact when they were actually really far from the truth.

 

Apart of this is,still the SCR and where he is going to end up with that,to make a informed decision for a hydro roller cam-T/C.If that is done correctly,he will end up with a pretty stout car.Even with street tires,maybe the 10 bolt might be in doubt.That is a crap shoot if it would survive.He could,even it being a street car,try to lighten the car up.The wt is over looked sometimes and it is like free hp.Doesn't really cost anything but some labor on his part.We used to say that 100lbs is = to 10 hp and if you think about some of the details to get 10 hp and what it costs,well to lose the 100 lbs is by far much cheaper.

FYI-we all do this.We ref HP all to much because of the hard sell that has happened over the yrs.Truth of the matter and kind of a sticking point or aggravation with me is the torque matters more to him or should matter more as a strictly a street car.Does hp matter while the car goes through the gears(rpm) to O/D??.Well that does depend tons on the shift points and more than likely the torque curve matters tons more.It's like 3/4's torque and 1/4 hp with the peddle to the floor in a street light race which I only encourage with limitations in mph.Am I saying he should build a torquer engine only??.Nope.I do think about him ending up with a result of like a diesel engine where it is all torque,but because of limited hp ratings doesn't cruise worth a damm.It's that balance point he is going to have to learn and decide how he wants it to work out.

 

lots of compression, small duration/high lift, and great heads can make a fantastic street engine. a friend of mine has a ls2 gto that makes ~420rwhp and well over 400rwtq with the stock cam/1.7 rockers. 243 heads that have been cut a good bit, but no porting. he has gotten 31mpg out of it before, and over 500 miles on a tank of fuel. 3900lbs.
(the gto's do have lean burn in the tuning, also which helps on the mpg.)

 

Which is why I want an ls2/t56 pullout . But to the OP, have you considered just buying an ls1?

 

The aluminum factor come into play with higher compression ratios.

 

iron heads will work about the same at 1 point less compression.

 

Yeah you're probably right

 

Really can't dismiss how much compression means.A 9.5 will not produce as much as a 10.5.And how much that impacts which head/cam to match it up.

H/P is a derivative (sp?) of torque.

 

i disagree.

2 equal sized/ported sets of heads, one alum the other iron.... the iron heads would make roughly the same power at a slightly lower compression. may be 1 point lower, may not be quite that much. the iron heads will hold more heat in the chamber, and the alum heads will dissipate it.

biggest advantages to aluminum heads are they are easier to cut/port, and they are an instant 50-100lbs weight savings over iron heads.

 

I respectfully disagree.1 point in compression can be significant in output.I do see your point about the heat part of it.Got to remember these engines are air pumps.And heat is the export of power output.So technically more heat,more power output.That is if you have the octane to get around detonation.

 

Hey Bears.You out there??.Yeah sometimes we get carried away.Say something.

 

ya im here, just taking it all in. Is there anyway i could make this motor into a straight torque monster with these heads?

 

To be totally honest I saw your post yesterday.Thought you went on a survey on another site for awhile to try to find more answers you liked more.I mean you can ask the same questions over and over again until you get answers more to your liking and are more than likely the wrong ones.

So my question to you is what have you done about the research we all have been pounding on you about??. Did you buy David Vizard's book??. Seriously,a major part of forums like this is to "pass the torch" onto the next guy who learns from his experiences so he can be the one answering questions.But the research comes first.

The quick answer,which really isn't what you need,is yes you can make torque with those heads,but at what rpm range is the real question.................

 

Bear listen to gary Im Only twenty and have wasted money on motors just to find out its Not what i wanted. Guys like gary helped me achieve what o wanted and i learned as i was going. Also i agree with gary about respecting the cars performance and can be dangerous fast and im Only at 360 flywheel HP est. And its plenty powerfull.
Imo listen and read and dont jump on parts unless Ur positive