When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Auto Detailing and AppearanceShare tips and tricks on how to make your Third Gen shine! Get opinions on products or how something tasteful looks on your Chevrolet Camaro or Pontiac Firebird.
Hi all, thanks for the nomination! I have the honor of competing against two of the most amazing thirdgens I've ever seen.
Also, I will not be voting for my car in this poll. It only seems fair.
Here's a little information about my 1991 Firebird:
The car was originally owned by a friend of mine who ordered it directly in the USA and imported it to Switzerland himself - not through the official dealers. That's why the car has some options that export thirdgens usually didn't have back then - like the US exterior mirrors or the "old school" rear spoiler, both were unavailable in the EU at the time. He kept the car extremely well and when I bought it from him in 2013 it was still bone stock and had just over 14500 miles. The car to date still has the original bright red paint. I'm keeping his tradition and try to preserve the car as carefully as he did.
One thing I had my heart set to do was (and still is) an engine upgrade as the car is a 305 TBI. Unfortunately there are extremely strict laws concerning engine modification here in Switzerland. E.g. that Magnaflow cat back isn't exactly legal and I have to swap it for the original exhaust every time I go to inspection...
So I decided to make the best of the situation and go for detailing and cautious modernizing modifications while trying to maintain an OEM look as much as possible - not easy when you're as picky about details as I am. Here is my build thread, if anyone is interested: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...-memories.html
There have been some other smaller modifications - like adding the overhead console, a Momo steering wheel, the 1991/92 Trans Am rear lights, an 82 shift ****, OEM diamond spoke wheels and PMD seats. By the way: the PMD seats, the cowl induction hood and the Trans Am logo are a reverence to my first car - a red 1982 LG4 Trans Am, which I sadly had to leave behind when I left the US after a year as an exchange student.
The latest big mod was a complete interior overhaul with auto dimming mirror, keyless entry and a double din radio with GPS. Mainly I wanted to have the OEM 87/88 digital dash in my 91 Firebird, a task that required a lot of preparation including reverse engineering the digital dash odometer. In the end it paid off - and now I enjoy riding the only 1991 Firebird with a digital dash that I know of.
Beautiful Firebird. Excellent pics and presentation. I'm sorry to hear about the excessive regulations over there. I have to wonder, if you were to put a more modern engine (or even a TPI engine), would the inspectors even know the difference? FWIW, you have what has to be the best looking 305 TBI engine I've ever seen.
Also, I've ran the PNs provided in the link for the honeycomb vented hood insert and came up with nothing. I would love to know where i could get my hands on one of those. I had to have my vented hood insert fabricated.
Thanks so much for the nomination, the other two nominated thirdgens are definitely some amazing cars. Best of luck to everyone! So, just little bit about my 1987 IROC Z/28. I found her after a very long nationwide search....not having much luck finding the exact IROC I was looking for here locally in SoCal. Believe it or not, I ended up finding her in New York state of all places, having been stored away for many years by the original owner. She's nearly all original with only 23,000 original miles. Its an LB9 305 TPI car, 5 speed manual with the G92 package. The only real modifications are a 3" Flowmaster cat back exhaust. Other than normal replacement items, she's bone stock. I am so lucky to have found her.....And I think she prefers the warm weather of SoCal to her previous fridgid conditions.
socalkidd......that car is everything I was hoping it was! Great to finally see more pics of it! I had a twin to it 25 years ago in high school, only mine had the 5.7 and different seats. Same year and color combo, though. Looks great man! Makes me wish I still had my old one!!
I know this is going to be long, so I'll apologize right now. It's just hard to briefly describe a something I have so much time, research and work in. I’m a DIY’er almost to a fault and I grew up reading Car Craft so I knew this had to be done by me in my garage and I believe that I’ve accomplished that with minimal exceptions. I’ve been fortunate to have the wonderful resources of Thirdgen.org and to have become friends with members like RobGuitarGod over the course of this adventure. I’ve also had my brother (Master Mechanic and shop manager at a Chevy dealership) and dad (welding engineer and metalurgist) but they are 1800 miles away so it was consultation only. I wanted to rebuild a car and be able to say “This is it, I’m done. I can move on now.” I believe that I have also accomplished that. Well almost.
So I happened upon this car by word of mouth while I was out looking at other potential Camaros to buy and rebuild. It was abandoned on a guys property on the outskirts of Vegas. No engine or transmission. The only wiring left was the interior harness but even it had been cut to pieces where a car alarm had been installed and removed. The carpets had enormous stains. The spoiler was falling off and the trunk had no plastics. The only positive was that the body was in good condition. Of course there was no title. I called the county sheriff to verify it had not been reported stolen and then I made the guy an offer and took it home. I’ve gone through the title reclaimation process (which in itself was another adventure full of stories for another day) and now I have a clean title in my name.
The engine is pretty quick to talk about.
It’s a 383 that I assembled in my garage. It’s the second 383 I built (same block) because the first 383 I built used an air cleaner stud that vibrated loose and then sucked down into cylinder #6 puncturing the cylinder wall, chewing up the combustion chamber and bending the valve stem. This 383 is nearly a clone of an engine that Air Flow Research had on their website. I’ve looked and the article is no longer posted. It was also listed in that Ryan guy's list of SBC engine combos that was like 108 long and no longer exists as a website. Luckily I downloaded it from a member who posted the downloadable file which you can find in post #15 of this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...bc-combos.html I followed combo #16 from line 17 which shows them making 491/501 on an engine dyno. The only changes that I made were that my AFR heads were/are a competition port that I did some blending work on (flow numbers in this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...r-195-afr.html) and I have in the neighborhood of 10.5:1 compression instead of 9.5:1. My camshaft is a similar duration (236 instead of 230) and made a by a different manufacturer but that's probably negligible. So I am guessing I should have 400 hp at the wheels. The block is a 4 bolt splayed main. The rotating assembly is forged, Scat Crankshaft, H beam rods, Probe pistons. Summit 6 quart pan with the windage tray and scraper. The intake and throttle body setup is one of once-popular 4 barrel 1000cfm Accell Pro-Rams that I port matched and then sanded and polished the outside.
The headers are stainless steel and were a project because the angle that AFR put on the spark plugs did not allow enough clearnace to even allow a boot to slip on.
I had to cut the #1 and #2 tubes off and use pie cuts to reroute the tube and then TIG everything back together. The exhaust is also Stainless steel that I cut and welded together. I just finished making my own repackable muffler so I will be redoing the exhaust again. The motor mounts are a solid mount style that I made and TIG’d together. The transmission is T56 with a Pro 5.0 shifter and a B&M T-grip handle. I’m using MegaSquirt 3 Extra for fuel management which can connect via BluTooth to the tablet I have in the center console. The Alternator though being a V belt is still a “stock” alternator style for our years. It just uses a case that is clocked differently, is a slightly higher output and has a chrome case. The battery, which is a dual purpose starting and deep cycle battery, has been moved to the trunk. I use 0 gauge marine grade pure cooper fine strand from the battery to copper distribution block I made that it under the dash.
The brakes up front are Wilwood Forged Super Lites (FSL) 4 piston fixed calipers using the older Corvette C4 HD rotors. The rear brakes are stock LS1 rear floating calipers. I have an adjustable proportioning valve for the rears. The wheels are 17"x9.5" on all four corners with 275 tires.
The front suspension has a UMI K member and A arms with ¾” extended ball joints. The springs are UMI weight jacks with 800# springs. I still have the stock sway bar for the 91/92 Z28s. The steering brace is from Top Down Solutions. The steering box is one of the quick ratio boxes that has been rebuilt. The struts are the Koni Yellow 3 way adjustable variety and the strut mounts are Founders. The Strut Tower Brace is a the old 3 point by Edelbrock which was bought by QA1. I boxed in the mounts for it and notched them to allow for full articulation of the strut mount. I also made a plate for mounting them to on the underside of the strut tower to prevent the bolt holes from ever dimpling up. The front bumper is tubular steel that I bent with a flame and welded up.
The rear suspension for the moment uses stock springs that have been cut. The shocks are Bilsteins. The sway bar is also a stock size. The rear lower control arms are tubular pieces and use heim joints and are Founders as are the lower control arm relocation brackets. The Panhard bar and track bar are also founders and use Heim joints. The Panhard bar has been lowered on the axle and body side, the body side lowering mount is a Founders piece and the axle side bracket I made. The Torque arm is a tubular unit by Spohn that mounts to the transmission crossmember that I made. The outer subframe connectors are UMI but the inner set along with all the tie-ins were made by me. I’ve sprayed the entire underside white.
Once I began really tearing into the car I found out that a previous owner had hacked up the trunk area to replace a fuel pump so I had to make Lemonade out of my Lemons. I made a nice removable trap door.
For the outside the entire car was sprayed by me in my garage and at times I’m sure it looked like I had a Meth lab in the garage. I used DuPont Chroma Premier line for painting. Arctic White was the base coat with 3 (or sometimes more) coats of clear. The entire body minus the fuel door was smoothed. All emblems have been removed (front bumper emblem and side skirt emblems) and their indentations smoothed over.
The large recess in the rear bumper has been filled in as well.
The radio antenae was shaved. The door handles have been shaved and uses a remote to pop the doors.
I also spent an enormous amount of time shaving and smoothing everything in the engine bay. Every seam has been welded shut and every hole welded up. Large plastic jugs no longer adorn the wheel arches. The HVAC system was removed and the passenger side firewall plated over.
I also even went as far as to shave the cowl—look close and you can see it’s completely smooth.
I cut off the stock stamped steel radiator core support and made my own core support and upper radiator mount and was able to squeeze dual 14” coolant fans there.
The rear spoiler was another major undertaking. In stock trim these cars came with a 3 piece wrap around spoiler to hide the cutting, folding over and spot welds of the old hard top. No convertible ever left ASC with a hardtop spoiler(what did they do with all those spoilers?). I extended the rear quarter panels up and fixed the gaps between the trunk lid and Tonneau lid. In the below picture you can see in the first picture how uneven and just unfinished they left it. The trunk lid would line up but only without the weatherstripping. The second picture shows the trunk lid height difference with weatherstripping installed and the lid shut. You can also see the wide gap that they left between the trunk lid and fender and tonneau cover and fender. And the third picture is what the stock spoiler looked like when set in place. I had to lengthen the side legs.
Some of the interior items may or many not be as noticeable as the engine bay or exterior. For the interior I did the upholstery projects myself. The materials are marine grade vinyl so they won’t fade or crack. The door panels use a blind pleat design that I learned how to make and then I sewed them together myself. The center console cover/lid I made from scratch and upholstered it. The center console I also upholstered. The in-dash 4x6 have been removed and relocated as 6” to the sides of the front of the center console The tablet mount I made and 3D printed based off another members Double din mount. The Z28 emblem on the dash I also made and 3d printed. The rear view mirror is from a newer Chrysler and is a Home link unit so can open all the garage doors, shows temperature and heading and it auto-dimming. The gauges are SpeedHut. The speedometer is a GPS unit and all the gauges in the cluster are the gauges you would see in a normal 91/92 Camaro gauge cluster. The gauge on the pillar is an oil temp gauge and the four black dots in the gauge above it are smoked LED lights. At 4,500 RPM two yellow LED turn on and at 6,000 RPM two red LED turn on. MegaSquirt controls them. I deleted the sunvisors because I believe that they are utterly useless in a convertible so I made block off plates and mounted LEDs in their place that turn on when the door opens.
O wait, I forgot that this was the second time I built the interior because last October (October 2017) right when I was almost finished with the car the interior was burned down in a garage fire.
The headlights are a set of LED projector housings I found on Amazon.
Some people are interested in seeing some shots outside so I'll be heading out just before sunrise one day this week to get some pictures at one of the better locations.
Wow! All top notch pretty much brand new cars this month. And I thought my vote would be an easy one this month.
BTW, I was really surprised by Chehbra's ride...It did not expect it to be sooo nice from the pic I seconded, great work man!
Wow! ....so this is one of those months where a monthly theme would help. Not trying to rehash that debate, I understand why it's not ideal, just saying these cars are SO different. Immaculate, almost completely stock, perfect examples.....or COMPLETE hands on custom built. Almost no way to objectively compare them. To further the issue, I LOVE stock appearing thirdgens, and I LOVE custom builds. My car is an example of what hope the best of both to be. But how do you vote between the two!?
All 3 cars are amazing is their own right. All 3 I'd love to own, yet I have to choose.
I do have to say to Tibo though... I am blown away. I regularly tow the DIY line in front of a growing generation of modern muscle kids who think hot rodding is dropping your brand new Camaro SS off at the local speed shop for headers and a tune, then bragging on "The Gram" about how fast their car is. The big three are reviving muscle cars and killing hot rodding all at the same time. That's another rant for another day. My car is pretty custom (even the parts that look stock) but the level of work I've put it in pales in comparison to yours. A COMPLETE build. That's the holy grail in my book. You could've put it HALF the effort, and still would've done more than most ever will. Well done sir. Well done. If you win, it'll be easy to see why. The other side of custom though, is that if you do NOT win, it'll be easy to see why, lol. Such is custom work.
Wow! ....so this is one of those months where a monthly theme would help. Not trying to rehash that debate, I understand why it's not ideal, just saying these cars are SO different. Immaculate, almost completely stock, perfect examples.....or COMPLETE hands on custom built. Almost no way to objectively compare them. To further the issue, I LOVE stock appearing thirdgens, and I LOVE custom builds. My car is an example of what hope the best of both to be. But how do you vote between the two!?
All 3 cars are amazing is their own right. All 3 I'd love to own, yet I have to choose.
I do have to say to Tibo though... I am blown away. I regularly tow the DIY line in front of a growing generation of modern muscle kids who think hot rodding is dropping your brand new Camaro SS off at the local speed shop for headers and a tune, then bragging on "The Gram" about how fast their car is. The big three are reviving muscle cars and killing hot rodding all at the same time. That's another rant for another day. My car is pretty custom (even the parts that look stock) but the level of work I've put it in pales in comparison to yours. A COMPLETE build. That's the holy grail in my book. You could've put it HALF the effort, and still would've done more than most ever will. Well done sir. Well done. If you win, it'll be easy to see why. The other side of custom though, is that if you do NOT win, it'll be easy to see why, lol. Such is custom work.
I agree! All three are winners, regardless of how the voting goes.
Beautiful Firebird. Excellent pics and presentation. I'm sorry to hear about the excessive regulations over there. I have to wonder, if you were to put a more modern engine (or even a TPI engine), would the inspectors even know the difference? FWIW, you have what has to be the best looking 305 TBI engine I've ever seen.
Also, I've ran the PNs provided in the link for the honeycomb vented hood insert and came up with nothing. I would love to know where i could get my hands on one of those. I had to have my vented hood insert fabricated.
I'm talking about this piece:
Thanks for your appreciation!
As for the inspection I fear they would indeed see the difference. They're practically trained to spot even minor engine modifications. Other things like the Momo steering wheel, which isn't street legal as well, will usually be overlooked if you make it look OEM. That's also why I added the OEM horn button and a 3D printed Pontiac logo lol.
Wow! ....so this is one of those months where a monthly theme would help. Not trying to rehash that debate, I understand why it's not ideal, just saying these cars are SO different. Immaculate, almost completely stock, perfect examples.....or COMPLETE hands on custom built. Almost no way to objectively compare them. To further the issue, I LOVE stock appearing thirdgens, and I LOVE custom builds. My car is an example of what hope the best of both to be. But how do you vote between the two!?
All 3 cars are amazing is their own right. All 3 I'd love to own, yet I have to choose.
I do have to say to Tibo though... I am blown away. I regularly tow the DIY line in front of a growing generation of modern muscle kids who think hot rodding is dropping your brand new Camaro SS off at the local speed shop for headers and a tune, then bragging on "The Gram" about how fast their car is. The big three are reviving muscle cars and killing hot rodding all at the same time. That's another rant for another day. My car is pretty custom (even the parts that look stock) but the level of work I've put it in pales in comparison to yours. A COMPLETE build. That's the holy grail in my book. You could've put it HALF the effort, and still would've done more than most ever will. Well done sir. Well done. If you win, it'll be easy to see why. The other side of custom though, is that if you do NOT win, it'll be easy to see why, lol. Such is custom work.
I totally agree. And the meticulous work that went into Tibo's build is indeed stunning!
socalkidd has the twin to my 87 that I loved.. I’d buy that car in a heartbeat if it was for sale..
Cehbra has one of the nicest cleanest birds and an import to boot! It’s not so easy to get a car like that here nevertheless overseas.. That is the nicest, cleanest looking TBI I’ve seen!
Tibo’s car is such an impressive build. All the ideas we would spitball as teenagers (but didn’t have the faintest idea how to accomplish or realize the work involved) Tibo actually went out and did it.. And did it with excellence and attention to detail. It didn’t look like any shortcuts were taken. Where most people would say “don’t change the spoiler, it’s going to be a ton of work and a total PIA” Tibo did it anyway and did it so clean most wouldn’t even realize, “Hey, verts didn’t come with that spoiler!”
1) Your car is in league with with some of the more elite Pro Touring type builds. Those are, in my opinion, the most impressive types of builds - and again, your car is one of them. But...we find ourselves with “an embarrassment of riches” when it comes to high-end, skillfully executed, Pro Touring builds.
So, hopefully this will be a good analogy:
Even if it is the best thing on the menu, nobody wants steak and lobster every single night.
2) So, unfortunately for you, with more than a couple highly engineered, next level performance Third Gens finding their way into our COTM contests somewhat regularly...there was just a certain novelty to Cehbra’s story of getting Third Gen parts into the heart of Europe, and through a lot of hard work of his own, making a low-key, but still unique Firebird - and all with the [Smog Police or whatever] crawling up his ***.
3) Second place here puts you in next month’s contest. I think it was last year that the December (“Runners up”) winner very narrowly lost the Car of the Year Contest.
Rather than getting mad and pissing all over you for your comment, I can understand you feeling slighted considering all the work you put into your Camaro. I really do hope that the preceding perspective helped.
Finally, I hope that I’ve been able to succeed at acknowledging that, in certain respects, your car is in a different league without diminishing the other contestants. And I hope I’ve been able to point out the fact that yours isn’t the first or only well-executed Pro Touring build we’ve seen here, without diminishing the skill and effort it took to achieve what you have.
1) Your car is in league with with some of the more elite Pro Touring type builds. Those are, in my opinion, the most impressive types of builds - and again, your car is one of them. But...we find ourselves with “an embarrassment of riches” when it comes to high-end, skillfully executed, Pro Touring builds.
So, hopefully this will be a good analogy:
Even if it is the best thing on the menu, nobody wants steak and lobster every single night.
2) So, unfortunately for you, with more than a couple highly engineered, next level performance Third Gens finding their way into our COTM contests somewhat regularly...there was just a certain novelty to Cehbra’s story of getting Third Gen parts into the heart of Europe, and through a lot of hard work of his own, making a low-key, but still unique Firebird - and all with the [Smog Police or whatever] crawling up his ***.
3) Second place here puts you in next month’s contest. I think it was last year that the December (“Runners up”) winner very narrowly lost the Car of the Year Contest.
Rather than getting mad and pissing all over you for your comment, I can understand you feeling slighted considering all the work you put into your Camaro. I really do hope that the preceding perspective helped.
Finally, I hope that I’ve been able to succeed at acknowledging that, in certain respects, your car is in a different league without diminishing the other contestants. And I hope I’ve been able to point out the fact that yours isn’t the first or only well-executed Pro Touring build we’ve seen here, without diminishing the skill and effort it took to achieve what you have.
Dave.
You are a diplomat Dave and that is only one of the reasons you do such a great job at this.
Remember men, we are all friends here and this should be fun.
Honestly, I didn't even expect to get nominated. When I got a nomination I just hoped my car wouldn't go under with zero votes. Now I'm a bit perplexed that my car made it to the top of this months poll given the enormous quality of socalkidd's and Tibo's rides! Still can't believe it!
All I can say is a big thanks to all of you. I've made many new friends in this community and have had a lot of help from many of you. I hope I was able to give back something to the community with my threads and documentary on a few things I found out. I reckon those threads may have gotten me some votes as well.
Honestly, I didn't even expect to get nominated. When I got a nomination I just hoped my car wouldn't go under with zero votes. Now I'm a bit perplexed that my car made it to the top of this months poll given the enormous quality of socalkidd's and Tibo's rides! Still can't believe it!
All I can say is a big thanks to all of you. I've made many new friends in this community and have had a lot of help from many of you. I hope I was able to give back something to the community with my threads and documentary on a few things I found out. I reckon those threads may have gotten me some votes as well.
I will get the **Winner** thread up ASAP. We did NOT get a jump on Halloween this year and it’s been full court press on making costumes for the kids...aaaaaand I’m off to work.
10-20-2018, 02:54 PM
I might have to just flip a coin. 
