I'm planning on installing an air bag kit on my 3rd Gen, for now i'm just in the planning stages and was wondering if there are any drawbacks to having this installed???

I know of the obvious one such as increased weight......

Just wondering if it will have any negative effects on the body of my car???

Thanks in advance.......

 

ttt

 

SHouldn't the 92 have come with a drivers side airbag stock??

 

Basically Air Bags are like hydraulics only better.......

No hopping and no 3-wheel...

Basically you can adjust the height of the car.....and it you can lower it 6 inches....at the push of a button...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1868194553

 

My knowledge on bags is very limited, but I've looked into them a bit for my Ranger. They're great fun on trucks. Nothing like going 30-40 mph and then letting the air out, and watching the sparks fly 'Course there's all kinds of planning and other work involved, unless you want to blow up your gas tank.

As far as a third gen goes, I personally think you'd be happier with just lowering springs or something.

These are some negatives I can think of, offhand...

1. Added weight as already mentioned and loss of space. You're going to be lugging around that compressor with you, which is not only added weight, but it also is going to take up cargo space. It isn't like we haul alot around in our third gens, but I hate going shopping and not having room for stuff, or going to a friends, and not having room for my gear. On the plus side, if you're one of those guys who removed their back seats, if you put the compressor back there, it could have a positive affect on your front/rear weight ratio. But then if I remember what your car looks like, you have a ps/2 setup, and your seats are still in the back, yes?

2. Questionable stability.... Our cars are unit body, and while you could add sfc's, sway bars, etc... I don't think any form of hydrolics or other like items is going to be good for these cars. I assume you originally built yours for speed, seems like everyone here does, so you have to figure, you're adding all kinds of stress from going high speeds and manuevering corners, causing stress on the subframes, and then now you're going to be moving your whole car up and down, which will add stress the other way. It just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

3. They're expensive as hell. A good bag setup is going to run you $1000 minimum on a truck. I don't know what you're going to pay on a third gen, but I don't imagine they have a setup for it, so you'll probably have to do something custom, and custom always costs more if you have it done by someone. You also have to add maintnance to that. Besides the aforementioned possibility of twisting your frame, or throwing things out of alignment at the very least, you also have to figure a bag setup could quite possibly cause undo stress on your tires and suspension, if you're not careful with them.

Just my 2 cents.

Mathius

 

Disadvantage:

Bags can break, leaving your car immobile, and trying to fix it has GOT to be a huge PITA....

 

OHHHHH, AIRBAGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel like a total ****

 

definately think you should ask in the suspesion........but either way i will let you in on my experience.

i can't tell you the idea is wrong because i thought of it as well a few years back and still in my mind would like to do it. but here's why i won't.

besides the obvious cost factor........cheapest i found a realiable setup with installation was 1800 and that was a base figure, you have to consider the actual car. in order for these cars to do this there is alot of modifying..........extensive cutting that you can't get back; well you could but i wouldn't want to do it. if you don't care about cutting up the car in the same fashion you would to mount hydraulics or any other major component that i wouldn't worry about that part. hydraulics in the end cost more; but on the surface are cheaper.............this is where if you have a shop and are know alot about frame structure you will save major money. typically parts run no more than 800.

next is the space: a compressor that is worthwile.....meaning can give you some useable play time and not need refilling is large, very large, it will not fit in the bottom well and will not fit on the top deck........this means no back seats. now that your ok with that will move on to the next.

noise: typically the noise they make isn't a big deal........but when the compressor is running a good duration of your driving time(if you like to play) remember it's right behind you and in your ear. ever hear an even small shop compressor? not fun. but if your ok with that will move on to the next. (mind you they do have quiet ones, they are expensive and fill slow)

durability: lasting wise most bags are pretty durable(afterall they use them on almost all semi's).......they will break from now and then causing definate accidents..it is highly recommended and from my point of view a must to check them out intensly everytime you drive.......i've seen what a blow bag can do and half the time people were lucky because it was when they were playing while parked..........the others, well lets just say that they're lucky to be alive.

looks: on average bags will give you about 8" of adjustability.....that's alot. you will probably only use 3 unless you happen to notch your frame front and back as well as cut out a good majority of your engine fenderwells in order to lay the frame flat on the ground.......remember with 91-92's the gfx hang lower then the actual frame so you had better get it down right the first time or you'll rip your gfx clean off trying to drop the car.........won't be funny if your trying to impress someone.

ride: when inflated properly they ride like a cadillac......just floating across the road..........but, they handle as if your car had no rear sway bar.....take your rear one off and try making a slow turn. not much fun.........hense the reason they are mainly used on trucks or larger styled cars. it can be done; but you loose all that's "sport" about a camaro.

if it's a show car or even a weekend cruiser i'd say go for it if none of this bothers you...........even if it didn't; if you enjoy driving your car more than 2,000 miles a year and don't want alot of maintenance to think about i'd say look to something else for fun.

good luck with your choice and if you go through with it post the pics!

 

Well here is my situation, my car is a daily driver , I put about 10,000 miles a year on my car..............and i can find parts and installation cheap.........

Alrhgout i WON'T be playing with them alot while driving only when stopped or parked........

I'm not planning on going anywhere fast with an LO3 anyway so speed has been out of the question for some time now.............Also no fast hard reckless driving here, so fast corners are also out of the picture.......

The compressor will fit in the back area, there is a member here "lowcamaro" that has done exactly that......

The noise of the compressor won't bother me since i will be playing loud music anyhow......

So what would your expert opinion be Kandied???.............

I'm working on a $1,500 budget BTW.....

 

There's a lot of misconceptions here.
1) I know of a Camaro in Michigan that has a system fitted and the road holding is excellent in all respects.

2) No part of the udercarriage will catch the road. Bump stops are fully operational and limit the travel. If anybody wants to "lay frame", then there is a danger. Normal useage will cause no problems.

3) Airbags only rupture when they rub against anything else. If it is fitted correctly and you enure that nothing can catch or rub, they can last a loooong time. The only one I know of that has been replaced was due to the top plate rotting through-no air bag defect at all.

4) No cutting is needed at all for the camaro or firebird. Perhaps a couple of holes to drill. NO fabrication or mods are required.

5) The compressors are quite small and can be fitted under the front fender shield. If fast ones are required, they will be bigger. Not necessary though.

6) The frame will not be stressed anymore than a normal spring one. The ride height changes slowly (unlike hydraulics).

7) What maintenance is required?

8) A kit can be bought for these cars that has been designed properly. Check out the search function. If not, I have it somewhere.

9) Mine is being fitted now. This is a show car only though, but another system will be going on my other Camaro eventually.

Go for it! Be different! Good luck Flynlow92RS! Keep us informed how you go on.

Andy.

 

I've been thinking about this post a lot more while looking at a bags setup for my Ranger. Another thing to throw in for the positive side is if you get a fast compressor, you wouldn't have to worry about rubbing the ground fx anymore on inclines, just raise it.

Mathius

 

hey hey thanks for posting this question. My fiance runs bags on his show truck and we've been thinking/discussing the possiability of putting them on my Camaro. Now i know some of the pros and cons and saved myself the trouble of asking the question myself.

 

1. You will never get a "true" alignment, and can ware tires faster.

2. Bags can blow, and not from just rubbing. Riding to high, and hit a pot hole. To much air pressure attempting to hop.

3. compressor has to be out side for fresh air, but sure it will fit under car somewhere.


Front is VERY simler to my s10, and should be easy. Back will require some modifications.

I have thought of this myself, unsure if I want to do it on a highly driven daily driver.

BTW, you will need more then 1500 to do it properly.

BTW2, I have these on my s10, I do know things about these!

 

You can get a true alignment. But if you change your ride height then you throw it off. Decide on a 'daily driving' psi setting and get your alignment done. Keeping it at that height will be fine. Riding higher or lower for long periods of time will cause adverse tire tread wear. I agree with Andy. If you do it right they are very reliable. Some luxury cars come stock with air suspension systems. Though they dont offer as much adjustability as the aftermarket ones, they can be reliable. It all depends if it was installed/designed properly. The local City Bus here in Hawaii uses air suspension. When they need to pick up Handicapped ppl they lower the bus down. They run dual Firestone 2500/2600 pound bags on each wheel. I see alot of examples of cars/trucks/vans using air suspension and alot of them are reliable. Of course it is possible for stuff to leak, stuff to break, etc ... but it depends on how its installed and maintained. I would definately do SFC's and any other chassis stuff you can think of to be safe. As far as the handling, I'm not really sure. The rubber on the airbags is as thick as the rubber in your tires. I put my faith in my tires every time I race so in theory the airbags should be good for daily driving. But I've never seen or tried it in a Camaro so I dont really know for sure. I wouldnt be taking turns at 100 or anything, but for daily driving it should be fine. I know guys with 4000 pound SUV's that have been daily driving with airbags for 45K+ miles. Just do it right from the beginning and it will last. I think $1500 is a little cheap. I wouldnt skimp on any part of this setup if I were you. It needs to be reliable. Hope that helps!

 

I agree with CrazyHawaiian. Think of the nice setup you could have for half the price of good airbags (Bilstein, Tokiko, Koni). You see a lot of fly by night airbag stuff especially in Mini Truckin ads. A True good airbag setup could cost as much as $3000+++. Usually when it comes to airbags just like anything else, you get what you pay for.

 

I went to the shop and they said that Firestone bags are good which would be the ones i'm getting........

Also CUSTOM-made bag mounts to ensure a perfect fit for my ride......

I do know all the DO's & DON'T's for riding with airbags, NEVER under 50 psi and NOT at maximum height..........

Also he said $500-$700 on installation, kinda a play by ear thing because unforseen problems.......With the $950 for the kit......

I'm looking for somewhere in between $1450 to $1650........


I'm definitly looking into this as a serious option cause i have the money, but i'm not one to rush into things......I'm talking to people and doing alot of research, I'm gonna go to a couple of shops when i get some free time off work, to get some other opinions from different people........I'll keep you guys posted on what other people tell me to just make sure they don't try and rip me off or skimp on parts so i'll come back to repair it.....

Any other comments/ideas/suggestions/opinions are welcome since i'm trying to get as much info as possible......

 

One more thing too, someone brought up the point of "laying frame".... Your camaro underside is 90% plastic where it's going to touch ground first, because that's your gfx hanging down. You could seriously damage them if you keep them on the car and drop to the ground, and we all know gfx's aren't cheap.

Mathius

 

Any progress???

 

well there is no way to lay frame with any gfx........that means they got to go FLYNLOW92rs, which i'm sure is not going to happen. there are ways to prevent this though wit measure settings, proper bump stops, etc.

there is absolutely no ture alignment...these cars don't have adjustable strut towers like stock; you do have some range of movement, but not a whole lot.. they do technically align them at a certain pressure and pitch and basically lock (bolt) them in place.once you raise or lower the pressure you will loose alignment, pinion angle, etc. this will cause in many problems down the road with added stress on certain parts and the like. like FLYNLOW92rs said i'm sure it will be mainly for parking and possibly slow mph movement which would take alot of work to stress these parts.

dangers do include over or under pressurizing like natural, but there are many other things. when driving on the freeway or speeds exceeding even 25 miles an hour if a bag were to break or loose pressure (which happens) you will loose total control. most systems on cars use minor setups in the front and full in the rear. at least with a rear setup you will still have control of the car; but if a full front setup goes you better hold on.

price for most kits go as low as 800; of course this is with small compressors, fittings, cheap hoses, etc. for the best of the best setups expect anywhere from 1,000 2,000 depending on all your little options. remember that the smaller the compressor the less playtime. fastflow valves have changed airbag systems dramatically, they can now raise an lower just as quick as hydraulics with out the harshness of the ride.

ride wise they are somewhat stable and do ride nice, but it's like driving a corvette or an 85 cadillac eldorado.........you just can't play as hard. in FLYNLOW92rs situation i can see that it won't be a problem so the ride wouldn't even be a consideration.

mounting is custom, especially in the rear.........there are quite a few things that need to be done to allow the proper travel among other things.....there use to be alot of work in the front to but now that they have newer strut bags and other optional equipment it may be easier for the front. either way this is something that will take even the best installer 3-4 solid days to do properly.

 

Andy Fanshawe:

what camaro was this that you know of in michigan? there are many camaro's here in michigan with airbag setups. i've only seen two that actually get to see some mileage every year and they sure don't ride like a camaro.......i've seen them on all generations except 2nd even though i'm sure there is one out there. it's been done before yes, but mostly for show and very rarely are any expected to see high mileage.

yes you will catch your undercarriage, especially if you any kind of exhaust setup or the like........hell look at the front airdamn deflector. if people have a difficult time with 2" drop springs think about a very low airbag setup.....although you can lift the car so this should never be a concern.

airbags can rupture at any time..........true they are thick like a tire yes; but things happen..........would you chance it going 80 mph? at least if a tire blows you still have steering in tact and a rim to ride on. these things blow and your car will shift 4-5 inches in one corner causing loss of control and possible rolling.

i'm not sure who told you fabrication is out of the question but they are dead wrong.........at least to do it right. look at the suspension setup stock, some slight modification can be found when adding aftermarket spring and strut setups.

compressors fitting under the front fender shield?? have you ever seen a compressor for these kits........ever seen even the smallest compressor in a hardware store. i can barely fit an orange back there and your talking about a grapefruit. most cases the best place is always in the hatch for these things. even if you could fit one back in there you wouldn't have enough pressure to use more than one bag.........so you would need at least three compressors then? why do that?

rideheight is changed at whatever degree you want, if you have quick valves then it can be faster than hydraulics.......all movement of this sort puts stress on a frame; going over bumps in your car puts stress on your frame; the reason shocks and struts were made. airbags give you less support, similar, yet different.......look into it more and you'll see.

maintenance is definately required, this isn't like bolt a shock on and throw in a spring............do you not do maintenance on our tires. the pressure needs to be constantly checked, valves need to be checked, airbags should be looked over at least once a week on a car that sees high mileage(check for stress cracks, etc) and these are just a few minor things. sure you don't have to do any of this but it's highly recommended and i wouldn't do it any other way if you value your life. after seeing quite a few vehicles wrecked you'll get the hint.

while i believe that you are getting a set i strongly question the shop that is "fitting" this for you if you believe all of what you have said; i'm not picking you apart but rather explaining the difference of what i know. i've ridden in many airbag setups as well as hydraulic, drove quite a few, and know of 3 personal camaro's with the firestone airbag custom systems. they are not simple, they are not maintenance free, they are not cheap, and they absolutely do alter the performance of the vehicle. the minimum anyone has ever paid that i know is around 3,500 and most of the custom work was done themselves.

i love the bags myself and i think it's really cool to be able to alter ride height by a switch; but after being around them for many years i know better than to put them on my camaro if i want to go for a sunday cruise or some late night fun. it just alters the ride to much for my liking.

i might do a little more research into it before i drove that car out of the shop if i were you. just some piece of mind and something to think about. please show some pics when done though as i for one would love to see them!

 

Well well well,my camaro is bagged.Im at work so cant write much.Check the post "How Loc Can You Go!?' for some info.Write back later.

 

excellent, i was hoping you would post and share your experience...although the thread your refering to pretty much takes care of it.

must say the driveline compressor is a great idea! i can't wait to see what's next on the car........some great ideas.

 

I understand the maintainence issue with the air bags and hope to keep them in good condition so a blow out doesn't occur....

they make bag mount and brackets for 82-92 Camaros WITH airbags included....

http://www.kmwperformance.com/prod.a...992&Category=2

This would solve the rubbing issues....

Not to mention I'm not skimping on parts DOT approved line, quality fittings, etc.....

I know the air deflector needs to be removed, and it will only sustain 4.5 inches of drop until the cat will begin to touch the ground.......I plan on a low temp thermostat already installed and a transmission cooler seperate, and a constant running fan.....

I would have a guage installed and measure the PSI when the gfx still have clearance from the ground.......that way i can monitor from the interior to make sure not to drop below that certain psi.......

I live 3 miles from school and 2 miles from work........when i mean daily driver, I don't mean high mileage daily driver.....

This probally won't happen till sometime in January, BUT I hope to find out as much as possible before hand so i learn more about it......

Thanks Kandied91z for the input.......time to go out for the night, so i'll post more tomorrow........

 

Not trying to flame here, but unless you are showing your car or using these bags in a parking lot to lay frame (mini truck term), why on earth would you want to bag a Camaro. For less money you can have an excellent regular suspension without the headaches of compressors, bags, blow valves, guages, lines ETC.

 

I won't do it because of the weight factor and because the handeling won't be as nice as just a good all around suspension.

 

(8) 3/8" SMC Electric Solenoid Valves

(4) Firestone 2500 Series Bags & brackets from kmw performance

(1) 5 Gallon 500 PSI Air Tank

(1) Hi-Output Firestone Air Compressor

(1) Steel Braided HIGH TEMP Compressor Air Line 18"

(1) 165 PSI Adjustable Pressure Switch

(65 Ft.) D.O.T. Approved 3/8" SMC Airline

(20 Ft.) 8 Gauge Power Wire

(4) Momentary Rocker Switches for Front, Back, Pancake, and Side-2-Side

Diagram for system setup and switch wiring

PLUS All necessary NICKEL PLATED push-in fittings!

Here is what I'm planning on buying as far as supplies and parts go for the kit, probally a few here and there things, but for the most part this will be it.......

Would it be better to get custom brackets or pre-made ones??

I have a bad enough time scraping now, it's un-avoidable......once i get my new paint job i don't want to have the same problem....I can raise my car to stop scraping yet still have the lowered look.......One day i hope to have this car worthy to enter shows....

 

doods,with my camaro dropped,i have NO rub at all.and that is with 18's.The cat sit 1/8th of an inch off the ground and the front whels are a 16th from the top of the wheel wells!Stock bumpstops,no modifications at all,it just layed like that once we put em in!Ive had no problems at all,other than oiling the compressor.Write more later.

 

You dont have gfx tho do you?

 

Hoped you don't mind LowCamaro...

But no he doesn't have gfx.....hence why i will need to test them out to find out just how much PSI i need to keep in the bags when i drive.....

LowCamaro, anything you would do different besides driveline compressor or possibly how long it took you to install the kit in your camaro??

Thanks again...

Here is a pic of LowCamaro's car dropped, it will tear the 91-92 gfx's right off.........I'll be careful so it's not an issue....

 

Well,ive got the GFX on my car now(my winter upgrades) and...They STILL dont hit!Its lays about an inch off the ground front and sides.92 gfx may not hit,i dont think Umm,the rear of the car took 5 hrs to do.The front was the same,but really the front took 7 hrs cuz we fu k ed up.Heres a tip,mount the front bags upside down,so the air line runs out fron the bottom.TRUST ME,its ALOT easier!Ummm,other than a driveline, all there really is is compressors(aka,the vibrating hampsters)Stick them in your spare tire well,and insulate the s h i t good!Theyre noisy buggers!
Hmmm,.what else,cant think of it right now,any more q's, just ask,remember , ive been there and ive done that!

 

Oh yes,just so ya'll know,no mods are needed for the bags to fit,just regular 4" cups and those bags will fit like a glove!Well,other than drilling a hole for the air lines.Remember,first hand experience here.lol.j/k.had to say that

 

SHoot,its me again,drawbacks of the bags...invest in some NEW ball joints.Like some TRW's ,lifetime warranty on those babys!,and ive replaced them already.Those front ends come down H A R D!!!

 

Lowcamaro,

What did you use to insulate the spare tire well??

Where was the air tank placed??

 

I never did use anything to insulate the well.I just at first had 2 compressors down there vibrating away.Kinda noisy.Here a pic of my tank.

 

wasnt there a post not to long ago "how stupid is this..." or something like that....not to downplay the idea of bags, cuz i think they can be cool...but anyway this post linked to a black camaro on cardomainl.com...the thing had bags in it and it had pictures of the car in different stances....in one shot i think it looked like it was "flyinlow" muhuhahah