CustomX

Thats right folks........BOGUS!

After reading the article on here, the chiltons and the haynes manual......I looked at it and said gee this is just liek swithching out a 4th gen motor......cept nobody realized it till today......

Thats right folks make it easier on yourselfs and follow my posts.....

first off this is what they want you to do.......

4 rivits.....drill/cut/tap them out then pull the whole regulator and motor out the back..........ya F*** that......

CustomX

No we get smart..........having changed 4th gen motors out......i looked at it and said geee......why cut yourself up when you got a drill already handy?

thats right folks drill 3 small holes in the door panel (plus the 2 for the motors rivits themselves) and WALLAH! motor falls right out the front, no messing around.

I did roll the window up half way, to make sure i didnt drill through and smackt he window.

CustomX

and last but not least....the 3 extra holes to be drilled......

Why you guys didnt think fo this before.........I cant say. All I know is that tech article.......no no no. No need to cut your arms up, or cuss out the car. Literally 20 minutes a side, including dissambly, re assembly, drilling. 3 cheers for using your brain!

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Wish I would have known this when I did mine. You're right...alot of cussing, bleeding, and even a little welding was involved in my install. Don't ask.

CaysE

Having never done this before, I'm a little lost. Can someone elaborate on what just happened? I will be doing this in the future, I'm sure.

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

Sorry but Ill preferr to do things the *RIGHT* way. Drilling unneeded holes ANYWHERE in my car to save me a few extra minutes is just rediculous in my book, and is the true meaning of HACK JOB. Having done this the job the RIGHT way before, its NOT that hard at all if you take your time and have any mechanical ability.

Besides, if someones afraid of a few cuts here and there, then you have no business working on cars... sell it and go buy a Honduh.

Id hate to see what your going to do when you need to replace your fuel pump. :lala:

CustomX

3 1/4icnh to 1/2 inch holes in yrou doro panel isnt a hack jab. drillign out numerous rivits is

d_johnsen

yeah small holes that wont ever be seen with the door panel on, good work customX

CaysE

A little harsh there, 88.

I still don't understand what the extra holes do.

d_johnsen

they allow the motor to be removed from the regulator assembly without messing around removing the whole assembly

CustomX

In the first pic, where the 4 circles are.......thats what the manual/tech article on here want you to drill. Thats the motor/and regualtor assembly/ YOu drill those 4, slide the regualtor deal off the rail then work it out the hole in the rear door panel. Then they want you to drill the last 2 holes out that hold the motor to the regualtor, bolt new motor in, slide whole assembly back into the car, line it up and re insert the bad guy onto the rail then bolt the regualtor back into place with new hardware.

The 3 little arrows in pic 3......if you just drill those.....you can then drill out the rivites holding the motor to the regulator IN THE CAR. then the motor literally falls off. And you re isnert the new motor and use the holes you drilled to put the new screws in.

Just like doing a 4th gen motor......keeps it simple.


As for the fuel pump 88......cutting a big hole int he body is totally differnt then 3 small holes that will never ever bee seen, and if they are, theyll read the manual.....see the holes and say "gee these people were smart".

Trickster

Isn't there a little matter of spring tension on that window regulator that could cause that window to fall rather fast when that motor is removed. Not to mention blindly drilling holes in the door panel till you get the rivets holding the motor and then oversizing the holes in the mount causing you to use larger rivets to install the motor. I have seen window motors installed on 4th gen cars and it was not done in the manner described here. If it had been, there would have been some rather p*ssed off customers demanding new doors installed free of charge.

Morley

Those holes look a bit ragged...were they drilled with a fork? Seriously, clean them up and deburr them.

CustomX

Of course you support the window, hence i said rol it half way up, thiers a hole in the sissors the you can isnter a nut into.....and or you can prop the window up.

4th gen window motors can and do get installed just liek this, cept you cant see what your doing at all. Luckily thiers several templates flaoting around for them that give you exact placement of where to drill. I made one for this to do to the other side (ie clean) if youd liek i can post that too.

badandy247

Hey now, i own a Honduh, but it's of the sportbike persuasion, and still not as cool as a thirdgen

CaysE

Ah I see now, thanks for the description. A template would definitely be nice, but measurements on a good drawing will do.

Sonar_un

Please post it if you can, I am sure there are plenty of us who would appreciate it! Thanks.

BTW, I am not a fan of "hack" jobs myself (having just done 3 fuel pumps in less than 2 weeks). I did those pumps the right way too.

Anyway, I don't feel that this window motor install is a hack job at all. Its ingenius if it works like you said it did. I'd rather not cut my arm up over a few pinsized holes

Derth Deboblo

Yeah, throwing up a template would be nice. I know mine will fail sometime, and it would help alot to have them now instead of diggin through the archvies (sp?) in the future. Also, how is this a hack job? Anything that makes working on your car easier is worth it in my book. The other way is a pain in the ***. No one likes doin it.

-Derth

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

Didnt mean to come off as harsh, as I sounded, but it IS a hack job.

How is it a hack job? Well lets see... would you cut a huge ****ing hole in your floor to change your fuel pump to save a couple hours? If no, then why would you drill holes in your door just to save about 30 minutes?

Like I already said, working on cars isnt always easy... some jobs suck, some go smoothly... its all part of the territory. Do it right the first time or dont do it at all.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Awsome job Custom. that is a great idea. And NO this isnt a hack job. Sometimes you need to make minor modifications like this to make the job easier and faster. Comparing this job to the fuel pump job is ridiculous. Would you say rolling the fender lips to get some 11" wide wheels under your car are hack job? NO. things like that are common nature when working on your car.

Custom as for the directions and pics, I am still a little confused but I am sure i will know what your talking about when it comes time to do the job on my car. I have down 3 of these in the past the "old" way and 2 of those times I almost had parts stuck in my chest. I forgot there was a LOT of tension on the motor and regulator and I drilled out the last rivet and BAM, the whole assembly jumped off the bench and I hit the deck fast . I said I wouldnt do that again......ya right, happened again a year later, that time though I did it on the floor just in case and sure as $hit it did. Now I dont have to worry about that anymore.

BumpaD82

Sorry guys but AGREED :lala:

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

First off, rolling the fender lip is REQUIRED to run certain size tires. Its just something you have to do if you want tires that size.

Now, as far as your "problems" with parts flying, its painfully obvious that your not doing something right... you said it yourself: "I forgot there was a LOT of tension on the motor and regulator "

Whos fault is that? Its noone but your own. YOU forgot, so why drill holes in the car because of YOUR mistake? Common nature is one thing, taking shortcuts at the cars expense because someones too lazy to do it the RIGHT way is another.

Bad406Z

I did but its now a door on a hing and the next time I need to change my fuel pump I just pull hack the carpet and 20 minutes later The new pump is in and The carpet covers the door when I'm done. I just cant see going through all the extra troble of the rearend and gastank BS

deadbird

Because a car door won't leak gas or blow up from a spark ?

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

tyty49

LOFLMAO

But anywhy, I would like to see the template also.

Where I come from a "hack job" always requires the use of duck tape. LOL

Trickster

If duck tape is required, I would call that a "QUACK" job.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

88 WS6 TransAm GTA, I guess you must be perfect then and never did any "hack job"( which this is NOT) to something and never made any mistakes in your life at all. I think the mistake you made was putting your 2 cents in here where it is NOT wanted you need you relax buddy. If you think this idea is a hack and you disapprove of it then go read another thread or something. Stop replying back in here if all your gonna do is bash someones work.

camarokev400

having done it the right way numerous times at work i think that is a great idea....... It is in no way a hack job. I dont see why you guys keep saying that, so is it a hack job to put a different exhaust on and hang a few more hangers, or a hack job to put in subframe connectors where you need to drill holes... NO it isnt its all part of modyfing besides you dont have xray vision you wont ever see it through the door pannel

yamahaguy91

i wouldn't call that a hack job at all whats 3 little holes???? now if he cut some part of the door off then that would be a hack job. not just three little holes. **** that means i have a hack job on my firewall cuz i drilled some holes for wires come one now 3 holes is by no means a hack job

BTW great job custom X

HamSpiced

whered you get your window motors from and how much?

did you notice a difference in how fast it rolls up compared to before?

can we have the templates and a "How To" form installation/removal type thing?

Looks great man... *** i lvoe that interiour...

CustomX

ill have the templates up on wensday. left them at my buddies house on his scanner

itll be a full size sheet of 7x11 or what not paper and ill give explicit instructions on how to hang it :-)

raycer

nice idea there

Vader

Several observations:

First, I'll agree that all of the Tech Articles posted on the site aren't always 100% accurate, Also, they generally offer only one means of accomplishing a task. There are always alternate methods.

Next, power window motors, whether on ThirdGens, FourthGens, "Honduhs", or anything else for that matter, typically fail for a reason, not just randomly. The two main reasons are it reaching the end of a useful life, or overload. More often than anyone might believe, overload is the cause. That frequently happens to coincide with the age of the vehicle, and is inadvertently attributed to "an old, worn out motor".

The reason for the coincidence is that window channels, guides, and the regulator mechanism lose their lubrication, causing the window to become harder to operate. The windows on older vehicles also frequently require adjustment to prevent binding. Simply replacing a motor is treating the symptom, not the cause. That's usually why a conscientious repair technician will take the extra time to remove the entire assembly, clean and lubricate it with the factory (white lithium) grease, then adjust the stops, guides, and regulator alignment to insure smooth operation for another 15 years. It also insures correct window glass position on closure to properly contact the top, front, and rear seals.

You can replace just the motor, but you'll probably be back a lot sooner than the original motor lasted.

As a side note, most of the window motors I've replaced have failed due to worn brushes and/or an overheated thermal overload that no longer resets (due to the aforementioned overloading). When the commutator is cleaned properly, a new brush holder and overload assembly can be installed easily without removing the motor, without drilling anything, and in less time than replacing the motor as you suggest. If you want to take a shortcut, that might be worth investigating instead:

Power Window Motors.pdf

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

First off, Ill put my two cents anywhere I damn well please... how about this: If YOU dont like what I have to say, then dont read it. This is America buddy, and I can express my opinion if I feel fit, wanted or not, and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it.

And no, I havent done any hack jobs on my cars. I might mess up, but I fix it the way it should be, and Ill take the time to do it right. Dont get pissed off at the regulator just because you didnt brace it properly... All you have to do is put a screw driver through the hole and it wont go anywhere.

Trickster

Nice informative article there Vader, thank you very much.:hail:

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

hey mr 88, you started this by chimming in on here with your opinion where apparantly no one aggrees with you. Go find another thread to ruin. This argument is over and is taking away from Custom X's orignal post.

*F-BodyFanatic*

iTrader: (2)

Wow I am SO glad I read this thread!! I actually just got a power motor for my passenger side because the one in there died. This will make the process SO much easier and I would love to see the diagram!!!!

88, I think you need to go drink a beer and chill man. If you don't like it, that's fine. Don't do it on your car. You're allowed to give you opinion, yes, but it's been given. Everyone understands where you stand on this issue. Let it go already - you are really driving this thread into the ground with nonsense! It's not like he's going to your car and drilling holes!!

I'm sure everyone here has read and has comprehended the point you are trying to make. No need to repeat it 10 times in the same thread. People do things differently, and just because they do it one way, does not mean you also have to do it that way.

3 small holes in my car > cutting myself up, IMO. Besides that, there's a lot less room for error. And it's not like the 3 tiny holes are going to case the door to warp or anything. Sheesh!!

Zrated83

iTrader: (17)

Nice article X Came in at a perfect time too. I just got my replacement window today and have to tackle this task. I was definetly not looking forward to working with all that space Im still a little confused as to what holes I have to drill for the motor to pop out. Do I need to drill 5 total holes or 2?

Mike

HamSpiced

Vader, thats pretty informative, but i had a hell of a time aggreeing that those brushes are easy to get.....


i think im gonan buy some new window motors on e-bay soon.. unles sthere is a better place to snag them...

deadbird

Hey guys, there is no need to get huffy about this.
What it all boils down is ones perspective on doing the job. Weather textbook 'proper' or an easier method, the main poihnt is there is options on how to do it. Not everyone has the same skill level, tools, or ability to do one job one way. That's what this site is about, gaining the views of others and thier experiences to add to our own knowledge of how to do things. It up to us as individuals to choose to do it one way or another.
There is no need to rudely critisize one finding an easier way to something and share it. It's just another option offered, noone is saying this is 'how it must be done for now on out'.
There is a saying, 'work smarter, not harder' which seems to apply to this post.
It may not be textbook correct for this vehicle but, (though we know ford engineers are hacks anyways), this methoud Custom presented is the only way to replace a window motor in a ford van.
It's not that bad to expand our knowledge base is it ?

Macgyver

I "wrote" the article. If you read it, it's mostly full of Vader quotes anyway..

The reason I didn't mention that way, was it's a PITA to tighten all the bolts holding the motor to the regulator assy.

I wouldn't call drilling the holes a hack job, but I still wouldn't do it that way, just doesn't feel right.

But anyway, I am kinda offended that you'd diss my article like that, I spent alot of time on it, not to mention, taking notes while I was changing my own motor. And another thing, while you're tooting your own horn, you aren't the first guy to think of that, lol..

89RSfastbah

Hey X...Thanks for the post and excellent photos to go with it.

*F-BodyFanatic*

iTrader: (2)

I got a good deal (or so I think) on new motors with a limited lifetime warranty...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33706

maverick351ci

WOW ITS REALLY NOT THAT HARD TO REPLACE IT THE RIGHT WAY I MEEN GET OUT THE GRINDER AND TAKE TEH TOPS OFF THE 4 RIVITS THEN TAKE THE REGULATOR OUT THE BIG WHOLE IN THE DOOR NEXT GET NEW PEEL TYPE RIVITS AND THE RIVIT GUN AND DROP IN NEW MOTOR AND REGULATOR AND RIVIT IT BACK IN TAKE ALL OF 10 MIN A SIDE INLODING DOOR PANNEL REMOVAL

StevenK

iTrader: (1)

you left your capslock on dude.

Hey CustomX, instead of dissing on the old article, write up a new one, include your template and submit it to be added. People obviously like your way of doing it, and it looks like it could save some time and hassle, so go ahead and submit your version of the article.

maverick351ci

Yeah you will have that from time to time

irocbirdbuilder

I yanked my motors out without taking the regulator out and i didnt drill more holes either. When i go to do my pass. motor here soon i'll pay attention to how i did it.

Zrated83

iTrader: (17)

Just replaced my drivers side motor doing it X's way. It was pretty easy! I just drilled the rivits out like he said and the motor came out! Didn't take long at all. Its nice to be able to roll my window down again but I wont be using it for 5 days since Im getting my windows tinted tommorow

SinthetikIroc

iTrader: (1)

new window motors come with nuts and bolts to replace the factory rivits