alright my dad just picked up a 91 camaro rs, 305 TBI, and the options prety much stop there. its got manual windows, locks, no a/c, no cruise and a red interior.

how feesable is it to add in these options? i'm fairly confident i could do the windows and door locks, but adding a/c would prove to be a challenge, and i know cruise is not that bad to install.

would i be further ahead to transfer an entire interior from another camaro with dashboard and wiring harnas'?

i'd imagine the firewall would have the provisions to run the a/c lines, but would the engine bay wiring harnas have the wires for the a/c compressor?

 

So your looking for the luxurys instead of the power....well to give you some options autoloc.com has all of what you need you can do a simple power window kit and remote locks,anything you want on electrical my rs came with a/c,,,but im ripping it off i dont use it any way and it robs power......so you could either go junking at the local salvage yards and find a full power car and yank it all out or buy all brand new equipment and wire yourself endless amount of whatever you want

 

Personally, I think you should find a different car that has all the options. Thirdgens are cheap. But if you want a performance car, you just found an excellent base to work off of. You don't have to worry about AC compressors, power window motors, sticking power locks, electrical gremlins opening your hatch, clunky cruise control components, and you likely have a fairly light thirdgen because of it. And if it doesn't have t-tops, you have a stronger frame to work on.

The choice is yours, but I would turn that car into a performer or find something with the options you want.

 

Incorrect good sir, this is a myth. "Parasitic Horsepower Loss" as it is sometimes called is virtually if not totally non-existant in our cars.

It sure does free up a lot of valuable room under the hood though!

Here are the pictures of my a/c delete last summer.

 

I disagree. When the cars were new they had no power loss, but I cut the belt to my 18 year old AC compressor and not only did I gain a little power, the engine bay is a lot quieter. Also, my AIR pump pulley doesn't turn as freely as it should, so I cut that belt, too, and noticed a slightly better throttle response.

Obviously, this means I need a new compressor and AIR pump, but parasitic horsepower loss IS present in our cars since they are so old.

 

Without bringing up a very old and heated debate...

I understand where you're coming from, being that the system is so old and all. My air pump also didn't turn very freely when I pulled it out, but I didn't notice a better throttle response when all was said and done. But hey, you and I don't have the same vehicle, maybe it was a bigger issue with yours.

The point that I am trying to make is that a correctly functioning air conditioning system in our cars should not rob the driver of any horsepower. I don't like seeing mis-information falling into the hands of people who are new to this stuff. If the owner of the car likes his a/c then he should be persuaded to repair the system rather than delete it because it "robs horsepower." In fact, there seems to be more respect at car shows for owners who can build a great vehicle and still keep the a/c.

For me, it didn't fit with my overall goals for the car. I needed the room in the engine bay for the things that I wanted to do. Many many people are lead to believe that they should just rip out the system and not bother trying to fix it. To me, if a/c is something that you really want (especially if you have a hard top car), then you should spend a day or two and get it running correctly.

If done correctly (and that's a big if) the air pump will not rob the engine of any amount of power.

 

I agree 100% on all points. A couple friends of mine think I'm crazy, but I'm planning on rebuilding the AIR pump so it spins freely the way it should, if not better than when it was new.

 

If you do end up doing it, make sure to take some pictures. I would be interested in seeing how much work is involved.

Rock on! :rockon:

 

Ok not to hijack this thread but throwing down my 2 cents in the power loss area. How can you not lose power when there is friction in the compressor (on or off) That is power being used to move the belt, the pulley, the compressor ETC. The laws of physics say that those items will decrease the output to the wheels. You can't just gain the kenetic energy without either lossing energy elsewhere or increasing the potential AKA more fuel, higher idle, more power . Now granted we are talkin small amounts here but new or used old or new there is spinning mass with tension and friction therefore you WILL lose power.

Ok enough of that I would have to agree with these guys. Keep that car as a performer and be happy you don't have all that new electonic stuff in it to mess up OR ditch it and get one with what you want.

Oh and one more thing any chance that is a 1LE? :-p

 

You will see no gain power wise by deleting the AC.

The AC compressor is only turning when it's on. Otherwise, the compressor's clutch is disengaged, and the belt just spins over the pulley... exactly the same way as it does with a AC delete pulley.

The laws of physics also say that no matter the radius of the pully in a mass/gravity/frictionless system (frictionless because we assume that the friction in the air pump is equal to the friction in the a/c delete pully) the amount of torque applied to the center of the platform is the same. If the torque is the same, than the amount of Kinetic Energy applied to the circumfrence of the pully via the belt must be the same. I have a concentration in Physics at R.I.T.

This is why I say that if the system is setup correctly, you will see no horsepower gains by deleting the a/c.

 

But as you said assuming the pulley is the same. I mayself did not use a pulley to delete my AC... good bye compressor :-/ hello shorter belt! :-) so that being said. All I was pointing out is that the kinetic energy (no matter what the system) is being used to run those accesories... that is still adding mass to rotation of the crank there for you will see some parasitic loss from having other things attached, running in tip top shape or not.

Honestly is has come down to a battle of technicality in that no mater how small the power loss is saying there is NO power loss is just as wrong. :-p but again I'm talking to be talking and have a little fun here

 

Ah, the shorter belt. In that case sir, you are correct. I can't argue that.

As for the battle of technicalities, I suppose one can never say that there is absolutely no loss in Horsepower.. But when we're talking about small fractions of a horse to the general public it may as well be non-existant.

So anyways... now that we hijacked this poor guys thread... what were we talking about? Something about power windows right?

 

The windows, locks, and even mirrors if you wanted them are all on a harness that plugs into the stock chassis harness, its routed from inside the drivers door to a relay and connector just behind the drivers side kick panel, from there one part goes up along the windshield bottom below the speaker mount points to the other side for the passenger door, another section runs along the floor pan under the carpet beside the drivers side sill plate to just about where the seatbelt is, then over to the console for the switches, there will also be a 7 MM bolt holding the ground either by the door side or right by the switches on top of the trans tunnel, 82-88 harness and 89-92 are different in the power connector, this connector is also where the factory power seat harnesses connect, you will need the window regulator setups from a factory power car, and door lock actuators, they are held in by 1/4" rivets stock, some people bolt replacements in, the lock actuators are held by the same rivets at the rear of the door.

A/C box can be unbolted from the firewall with the engine still in the car, there are several 10 MM bolts located under the hood and inside the car that hold it in, you'll see the ones under the hood holding it in, the hardest to get will be the nut right by the rear of the passenger head. There are also a few from the inside of the car going forward into the box, you will have to peel up the carpet and sound absorber to see them, you'll of course also need the condenser, box from an a/c car, lines, compressor, accumulator, and evaporator along with the a/c car controls.

If you want help getting the parts, feel free to pm or email me i should be able to help you out.

 

i put power locks in my car for 30$ last year- i love it- yeah i cant wait to get my V6-V8 swap done, but for the past year those locks rocked. it took about 3 hours for the locks- you can get a simple window kit that just hooks to the crank from the inside of the pannel and cranks it with a motor- as for AC- leave it off thats why *** gave us T tops my friend- i had it for 2 years and never turned it on once, last month i took it off and theres so much room under that hood now

 

Wow, good description, z28racer.

 

I personlly would not go with the electric crank replacements. I've heard these are slower than our already super slow motorized windows. I would just leave the manuals on there for the windows. I've had 4 3rd gens and they all had motorized windows until the 25th Anniversary I picked up and it has manual every thing and I love it. The other 3 I had all had power windows, mirrors, and locks, and they all stopped working in the first few months I had them. Nice when they work, a pain when they work poorly or not at all.

AC really is a toss up I guess. My 94 TA has it and i used it all summer, But my 86 Camaro has it as well and I haven't turned it on the whole 3 years I've owned it, and I live in the desert 100* summers not uncommon, but anyway to each is his own, and I would thin it would be more trouble to put that all in there than to just get a new body, but that's what makes it fun I guess :-P.

 

yeah i heard the motorized cranks suck- i would leave everything manual cept maybe the locks because of the ease it is to do it without hassles- im just trying to give him some options

 

Z28racer, thanks for the detailed description, i'm mostly accoustomed to GM w-body cars and its much the same for adding power windows and locks to them, the A/C setup is whats bothered me

prety much, i'm gona be ahead to find a car in a junkyard with preferably a gray interior and swap everything over to my dads 91. thanks alot a few more questions about the a/c setup

i'd assume the firewall already has provisions for the a/c lines, adding the compressor is easy, installing the condensor, etc, what i'm worried about is the difference in the vaccum lines that run the HVAC controls, will they be differnet on a non a/c car?