I've had one ding in my passenger fender for awhile thanks to some dumb girl swinging her door open into it. I've wanted to get it fixed with pdr for awhile, just never had it done cause its not HORRIBLE, but it bothers me. My friend is taking body/paint classes and said his teacher said that pdr is just a quick fix, and can actually be bad. The ding stretches the paint, then its massaged back into being flat again. The paint isn't fixed properly, and over time, it will eventually crack, or water can get under it and cause problems. Is this true? It made alot of sense, I was wondering what everyone else thinks.... Thanks.

 

Most regular body shops solution to the problem would be filling the dent with bondo and repainting the whole panel to the tune of a few hundred$$$...hardly better. IF you pay a guy to remove a dent with PDR, and the paint cracks, so what...with conventional repairs you would have had to paint it anyway, and its always much better to remove a dent than just fill it. PDR isn't for everything, but I'd use it wherever possible.

 

If the dent is to deep, the paint could crack, but the pdr tech can heat a deep dent to get it out without cracking if he's careful. Most places that specialize in pdr (like "King of Dings" here in Des Moines) have an airbrush artist that can fix any chipped paint that results from the pushed out ding anyway. We just had some rock chips filled in via airbrush on our black '00 Mustang GT and we can't even tell where the chips were at... even on very close inspection... on black!!!

 

A long time ago I recieved the mother of all door dings from a white truck/suv that I am still hunting. The ding was almost a full inch inward. A very skilled PDR tech worked it out but the metal is still a bit wrinkly. The paint was fine. I've seen PDR work wonders on other cars too, but many dents/dings can not be worked with because of what is behind the metal.

 

Gee, the information you got was from a PDR techs competition. It's no wonder he's telling you that. Generally, traditional bodywork costs around 3x what PDR does. A PDR tech is taking $$ out of his pocket, so they want you to believe all kinds of crap.

1 thing he stated is true....the metal does get stretched. A good PDR tech knows how to *shrink* the metal to unstretch it. The dents aren't removed with one push. On a $.25 size dent, there could be 200 or more pushes made. Each push lifts that small impact area a little bit. That lifting slowly tightens the metal back up.

The only times paint will crack is if the tech tried pushing too much metal up at one time. Another way to crack the paint is if the dent happened in a tight spot and is deep ( A tight spot being like on a multi curved panel, sharp body lines, etc.)

He's also correct in saying that PDR is a quick fix. It's usually done while you wait!!! No waiting 3 days to get the car back and dealing with the paint not matching and getting bondo dust all over the interior!! Water doesn't get under paint that is adhered to a car. If the paint doesn't get cracked, then the paint is as good as the day it left the factory, in most cases. Here's a dent that Matt Amick from Kentucky took out. How long would it take a body shop to fix this? It took Matt 45 minutes!!!

 

Here's the finished job.

 

truly an art form... Wow, that was nice...

 

It's a combination of art and science. As a PDR tech, we also need to know the science of metallurgy and how it reacts to forces applied to it. Knowing how a dent was created can also help determine the way the dent is removed. It's not always done the same way.

 

Sorry to go off topic, but ScottMoyer... Do you happen to be related to Karl Moyer of Karl Chevrolet in Ankeny? (and of course all of the Moyer boys in the Car City used lots)

 

Nope

 

Ok there are a couple things bugging me here, and I'll try to remain as impartial as I can...
Where do you get your information on this... I mean, I know some bodyshops send a bad message. but that IS NOT how most are run in this day and age.
I am not sure of this because I have not been trained in pdr... I doubt, however that any pdr tech is "shrinking" the steel on any job... True "Shrinking" involves heat to a degree. I don't think any pdr tech is getting his torches out to repair the panel.
Now, all that said There is SOME truth in what these guys have said... As a manager of a close to a million-dollar a year bodyshop, and as a former tech... I never USED TO put much stock in this type of repair. I USED TO think that the only CORRECT way to repair the panel, was to do it my way... to physically repair it and refinish the panel.
I even fought MY boss on this for a long time... I have since changed my tune... If the repair warrants it...If it meets YOUR needs for cost...IF the paint isn't damaged by the dent...IF the tech isn't drilling unneccessary holes in your door or quarter to get to it... All these factors come into play on any repair...It is a viable solution.

 

I've had PDR done a few times with much success. The first time was a golf-ball sized dent on the hood of my 98 Dodge truck in the area of the radius at the transition of the horizontal to vertical surfaces. They drilled a hole roughly 1" diameter on the backside and carefully pushed out the dent. The repaired area is COMPLETELY unnoticeable. They used a black plastic plug on the inside. Unless you pop the hood you'd never be the wiser. What are you calling a temporary repair? The dent was repaired 7 years ago and is still great. They warned me that there could be flaking of the paint when they attempt the repair.

The second time I used it was last year at the G8 Gathering in Atlanta GA. I went as a vendor and rented a red Impala. While I was at lunch at a local restaurant my rental was side-swiped on the passenger side. A dent and scratches ran from the rear wheel openeing to the middle of the rear door. Of course I didn't pay for collision damage option. I borrowed some rubbing compound from Roy at F-Body Motorsports and used some elbow grease to take out the rub marks. Roy informed me that Dale was coming the following day with his bag of PDR tools. He spent a few hours and took out most of the dents. I filled in the scrathes with torch red touch up paint and rubbed it out. At first glance the repairs weren't visible. That was all I needed. Handed off the keys to the rental car co. and was on my way home. Whew, that could have been bad.

Of course the paintless dent repair method isn't going to work for all dents. But I'd let them tell you if it can be done or not. IMO it is worth it to try and have as many dents repaired by this method as possible. Of course this is conditional on your vehicle having good paint to begin with. If it needs a repaint, then go with the traditional body repair and paint method.

Lon

 

Kevin,
Not trying to step on toes, because alot of body shops call PDR techs to come fix minor damages. I have always used a very reputable body shop, but I still needed to do cleanup after the work was done. My truck was damaged with stone chips all down the side. The body shop tried doing a really good job because they know me. I still got the truck back with overspray in a few areas, bondo dust (from other cars) in the vent system and in tight to get at areas, etc. I'm not saying that I wasn't satisfied with the work, but I did have some cleanup to do. I don't know of any body shop that doesn't produce dust that gets into everything and unfortunately, gets overspray somewhere you don't want it!

Most dent applications require the damage to be pulled or pounded out. After this, a light filler is used. Because of the work I do, my eyes are trained to see the minute details and I can see where filler was used. Unless a whole car is repainted, I can also see the difference in the paint texture and sometimes color. When a car gets repainted, you still need time for the paint to dry, right? Still at least a 2 day job to do it correctly.

You are correct in the true meaning of shrinking metal. In PDR, we shrink the metal by making hundreds of small pushes with sharp tools. Those pushes create a small mound in the metal. Each mound, closely together, creates the effect of shrinking the metal. It is unnoticable to the eye. Most dents worked by a PDR tech are not stretched bad enough to cause "oil-canning" or any noticable change in the metal.

Did you know that Volvo uses 2 PDR techs on their assembly line? One of their tools creates a dent in the door and they found it cheaper to do PDR than to retool the assembly line. Every Volvo in one car line gets this dent. You will not see that it ever existed if you went to buy a Volvo.

Body shops and PDR techs need to work together. I know of shops that use PDR to lift the damaged areas enough to skim it and then repaint.

 

In response to lonsal, I try not to drill any car. I've walked away from a job that required a BMW to be drilled in the door jamb. The owner got the dent repaired by someone else, but they drilled. The manufacturers refers to that as structural damage so I try not to do it.

I will be at G9 this year with my car and my tools!! I'll look for you there.

 

Drilling was necessary. In both cases the dent was in a double wall.

Lon

 

Dale does a great job...he took a few dings out of my 97 SS at G8! Unfortunately I have a few more for him this year...hail damage at the tops of the quarters on both sides.
I know there are some good body shops out there; I just haven't dealt with any. I had some minor quarter damage taken care of by my insurance company's "preferred shop", and while they did get the car back to me, and it did look ok, it wasn't until Dale did the PDR that I realized they drilled several holes through the quarter to pull the dent and BONDOED over the holes! Its still hanging on, but eventually I'm going to have to fix it right. I was surprised to see a body shop using such a crude method to begin with (stud welders aren't that expensive), and even more so how they filled the holes.

 

what about PDR if the paint has been damaged? Some little kid (who remains breathing at this point in time ) shot my fender 3 times with a BB gun, do you think it would be a viable option compared to redoing the entire panel? the dents are pretty deep, but there's just a very small (think pencil lead) paint chip........

 

Very true, but any good shop should have it's own cleanup department, (ours is run by the service department, so you don't need to tell me about issues with cleanup... Some guys just don't get what you're trying to accomplish for the customer.)
And yes, everyone is human so overspray and mismatches happen... they just shouldn't make it to the customers eyes.
I wholeheartedly agree, (now...! ) I have even used a local PDR guy to pop dents out of new panels that have been painted, and we may have missed a ping in the process. Hell, It's more cost effective for me than paying for the paint to get back into it.

 

Can I find these guys in the phone book under PDR?

 

Yes. Just make sure that they have someone on staff that does the work and are not just contracting the job out. I found a local body shop that also did PDR according to their yellow pages ad. I called to confirm this and took my RS convertible there on a Wednesday morning to have PDR done to the car and a new nose piece painted white (mine had a hole punched in it in the corner from a chain link fence pole I didn't see). I had a car show to go to that Saturday and needed the job done by Friday. We went over the entire car putting red circles with a felt tip pen where the PDR was to be done. Previously I had painted the headlight pockets on the existing nose piece black to hide some spider webs in the paint. I told him not to paint the headlight pockets black on the new nose piece, just to leave it solid white as it was originally.

The car was supposed to be done Friday. I call Friday morning to check status of the job, to find out his PDR guy had called in sick. Wednesday & Thursday. He told me he'd be calling another PDR guy to come in and do the work.

I called again Friday about an hour before closing to check the status. No one answers. I drove over and see my car parked in a parking space still covered with circles and dents. I go inside and find no one to help me. They are outside washing off a car and putting the last of them away for the weekend. I finally find the owner of the shop. I'm pissed that no PDR has been done. But I ask for the painted nose so at least I can put that on before the show. A worker brings it out. It's all white all right, but the headlight pockets have been scuff sanded so they can paint them black. WTF? The owner and I are both pissed now. He offers to have the scratches buffed out Monday. A fat lot of good that is going to do me now. I told him to just keep the nose and go ahead and paint the pockets black. So I leave with nothing. I picked up the car later that night when my wife got home. I spent the night removing red circles and put the bra back on the nose.

Later that week I get the new nose and discover they have painted it Arctic White instead of white. I give up. I'm never using that shop again nor am I recommending it. What a fiasco!

Lon

 

PDR is usually found under the auto body repair section of the yellow pages.

 

Forgot I posted this lol, thanks for the input guys. I might have my ding done sooner or later. Its very very small, nothing drastic like the picture of the jeep. That is amazing.

 

Thanks, Lawrence. I think that was already determined 16 years ago when this thread was last responded to!