sully91rs

I had a MINOR accident with the front left of my 91 rs. Long story short, an 18 wheeler made a left hand turn in front of me, too short stopping distant on wet road and I almost slid under his trailer. I stopped just in front of his rear tires, but he didn't stop until crunching the front left bumper cover and ground effect. The sound was crunching, but it was more of his tire smudging the bumper, but with enough force to smoosh the left side down, cracking the headlamp mount panel and cracking the front left ground effect (which was resently repaired ).
SO...
I dropped off to a mechanic/body shop my family has been going to for years and years. Originally, he said the front would be repaired, today I go to pick it up and ERRR AHHH.
He says it should be a 700 dollar job, I STRONGLY disagree. First, he says he couldn't save the front and had to put on a brand new piece and it was CHEAPER to go with an AFTERMARKET piece rather than a used piece. OK.
BUT!, the hood now overhangs the front bumper by about an inch. It was never like this, and I'm pretty pissed, especially him telling me it should be $700.

My question for the pros and third-genners with experience, first, should the hood be hanging over the bumper by about an inch (pics will come after hurricane wilma peaces) with an 'aftermarket' bumper, second, is it cheaper to get those parts aftermarket instaed of used, and with the work mentioned (new handlamp mount and front bumper, with paint, and same ground effect just cleaned up and painted) worth $700. ORIGINALLY, he said don't worry about the price, "I'll keep it low", and being a family friend I figured 2- 300 to just fix the existing front. BUT now he decided to buy a whole new front without telling me and I really do not like the way the hood over hangs. I would have done the job myself or threw on a $70 car bra if I knew this would have happened. I NEED HELP! He and I are talking price tomorow.

Also, does anyone have ideas how I can fix the overhang?
I don't have alot of posts but I've read about 800 postings, from engine swapping to checking the 3 'mysterious' bolts in the crossmember, and I've found all of them helpful. I greatly appreciate any and all help.

PS... My signature pic shows the way it used to look, slight gap, but no overhang.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

I'd stick with GM parts at just about any cost. Aftermarket body parts fit like complete crap. There is some adjustment you can do to the hood and bumper to make things line up better which it sounds like he didn't bother doing. A new front bumper for my car was I think around 180 dollars for a GM part ordering through a body shop. The lower ground fx was aftermarket which fit like total ****. Maybe his thinking was it would have cost more for a used bumper due to the extra prep work needed for painting it.

hmmurdock_00

I stick with used parts and gm parts mostly. But alignment might be the awnser, hard to tell for sure without seeing it

sully91rs

Old topic, but I want to update.
After checking things out and seeing other cars with similar problems, the aftermarket front end isn't the reason its so sloppy looking.
I played with the hood adjustments and now it sits more nicely, but still a slight slant and overhang.
It seems the left front frame is slightly knocked off.
I hear its like $500-600 to get fixed at a frame shop if I disassemble the front prior to bringing it in.

Before accident

After accident (at night and an angle that doesnt show the hood overhang, but you can see the slight slant).

DJCobol

Given the option I would not go aftermarket. Pretty much the entire front end of my car is aftermarket, and none of it quite lines up correctly. The worst piece by far is the new front bumper cover. The "pointed" area between the headlights has caved in, something I've never seen a stock piece do. All I know is that before my car goes to the paint shop in a few years for a complete custom job, it will have factory pieces on it again.

sully91rs

Look at my left headlights, and then at the right. On the one side, the front bumper concaves up, and partially blocks the headlight.
But thanks for letting me know that aftermarkets don't fit well, frame problems or not.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I'm gonna resurrect this blast from the past........I'm the new owner of this car and was wondering why the front end on this car was so f'd up and now I know. See what happens when you do a little digging? Anyway, I had the nose off this car and couldn't tell if the frame is bent, but I replaced the rf fender and tried aligning the hood and fenders and the "overhang" is still there. Maybe the frame horn is off where the cover mounts to it. Looks like I need a new bumper cover

89RsPower!

post some detailed pics..

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

It's in the shop getting sfc's welded in right now so when I get it back I'll post

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

here are some pics of that messed up body alignment. I've tried to adjust the left side fender but I can't get rid up the gap near the top....same for the hood, I've tried to align it with no luck. Can you see how it overhangs at the corner? Everytime you close the hood you have to pull the corner of the cover back so the hood doesn't catch it.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

here's some more

Atilla the Fun

On the driver's side you'll never resolve that gap until you replace the door hinge bushings , then readjust the door to have an even gap, front to rear, along the bottom of the door, same amount of gap as on the passenger side. The driver's door always sees 10-1000000 times as many openings and closings. Then the driver's front fender will need readjusted, then the hood, then the passenger side fender, and so it goes. Been there, done that.

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

Notice on the drivers side how the body side moulding on the fender is higher than the door. If you get down and look at the bottom of the fender I bet you'll see where someone has jacked the car up or put it on a hoist and bent the fender and rocker panel where they bolt together. That forced the fender up. If you straighten that area back out the fender will relax a little and the gap will even out. It will also help you get some gap at the hood.
Where the hood hits the bumper cover, it may be the fender isn't built just right where they bolt together. You may have to loosen the bumper back up and bend the fender around till it fits.

Atilla the Fun

1piece, my '91 had the problem you describe, but it does not move the entire fender up. To do that, you would also have to shim between the fender and the cowl. That misalignment is the door being low, as I detailed above. I've been through this on 3 of my third-gens. When the bottom rear of the fender is pushed up, it pushes the moulding out, not up.

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

No you don't need to shim the fender up at the cowl. The top rolls in and you loose your hood gap. I'm not saying his pins and bushings aren't worn and the door isn't sagging, but I have seen the condition I described many times. I hope you can agree to disagree. Lets let the poster be the judge.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I think you're both right and it's a little of both. I checked the drivers door and there is a little sag. It closes pretty good with a little help and I don't think replacing the bushings is the magic bullet, BUT it will help. The area where the fender and rocker bolt together is crushed of course ( like to thank the knucklehead who did that) so maybe straightening that out could help. It did when I installed the passenger fender. It looks like whoever did the body work didn't take the time to work this stuff out. I think I'll replace the door pins/bushings and line them back up then work on the fenders. The crappy bumper cover is definitely going when I get the money. I just don't know if I should loosen everything at the same time or start with one area, then another........any thoughts? Thanks

my89

Is replacing the bushing and doing a door alignment something that any normal body shop could do well? And would it be expensive >$200? for both (after buying the TDS kits)

Atilla the Fun

I'll agree to disagree and let the car's owner be the judge. Owner: I have done this whole deal several times, though never with damaged or non-GM parts. I guess I'll start with what's bothering me most. I currently have 2 front fenders that were pushed up at the lower rear, they did not move toward the hood, because all of my upper bolts along the sides of the hood were tight. Next, once the driver's door is done, I suggest you loosen the fenders, hood, hood hinges, nose, and bumper bolts. Then start aligning things at the rear, and work forward. First, align the fenders with the doors, and spread the fenders as far apart as possible at the front. Snug them that way so you can center the nose between them, equal gaps on both sides. But with your car being damaged on the passenger side, maybe instead use the hopefully-never-loosened driver's side for reference. Once you have the nose centered on the car, then the fenders and the bumper.

IROCKET4U

Talk about deja vu! My car had the exact same problems!!! Hood extending over the front bumper cover AND a gap on the top of the fender. I spent some time with 1piece@atime this last weekend (he's a bodyman by trade and an expert on third gens imo). He fixed both of my problems....Listen to his advise posted above--he is spot on.

Look familar? This is what my car looked like before 1piece worked on it.




And after 1piece did his thing:

Atilla the Fun

What's that second pic supposed to be showing us?

IROCKET4U

The overhand of the hood. It was so bad that I could put my finger in there!

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Atilla, I agree with both you and 1piece. I was thinking of going the route you just described as well as addressing the area 1piece described. Here's hoping!

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

the only problem with the area where the fender and rocker bolt together is I now have sfc's so it might be a major pita to get at that spot. Thanks for the pics irocket!

Atilla the Fun

I apologize for my part in turning your thread into an argument. I posted because I knew I had the answer. Before I became a machinist, I did my time in auto body. I am currently on my 13th and 14th third-gens. The fender only moves so far, the door can move much much more, but there's no point in adjusting it with worn hinge bushings, so that's how it got to this point. It still bothers me that 1 piece seems to entirely dismiss the very notion of the hinge issue, when I have gone to the trouble of trying it to see. It is extremely difficult. If you're going to do it yourself, it's easiest to unbolt the hinges with the door closed, and tie the inside handle to the steering wheel so the door doesn't fall open when you remove the last bolt. Have the window all the way down first. Then you can brace the door with your knees while you untie. Then you can remove the door, it's like 100 pounds, and then it's easier to do the hinge bushings.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

irocket....did you remove the ground effects and loosen everything up in that area? Atilla.........my door closes pretty easily.....but I'm a little confused with how replacing the pin/hinges will level the door out because when I lift the door or jack it up I don't see that much difference in the gap. Does it take total replacement of these parts to see the difference?

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

When Irocket and I worked on his car we didn't loosen the fender up or remove anything at first. We did run the car up on some blocks to make it a little easier to work underneath. His pinchweld flange and fender were bent toward the outside of the car so it was just a matter of using a hammer and a block of wood to make it straight up and down again. After I did that then I loosened the bottom fender bolt and adjusted the fender a little but didn't remove the ground effects. I was trying to do the whole job without doing any damage to the paint so I had to live with the gap being somewhat less than perfect.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

That's what I thought 1piece....I managed to bend the flange down a little but the new sfc is preventing me from bending it back to its normal position so I guess I'll loosen that bolt and see what happens

343Gremlin

i actually found a very easy way to do the door hinges without taking the door off. go and buy your new pin and bushings, then open your door all the way, take a floor jack and jack up on the very end of your door, just to take the wieght off of the hinge. take the old pin out, hammer and a punch or vicegrips and a hammer should do it. then, start jacking up the door slowly until you can get the bushings out of the hinge. once you get them out, place new ones in, drop the door slowly back in place, pop your pin back in, and your all finished. ive done it on a few of 3rd gens now, and its by far the fastest, easiest way of doing it, and it doesnt bend or break the top hinge. just make sure you do not jack the door up farther than needed, keep it as minimal as possible. hope my 2 cents helps someone hah.

last_

I recently got in a horrible accident where I was at fault. Details aside I have replaced the two front fenders, the front reinforcement bar, the deader panel, head lamps, front aero pieces, bumper cover, front lower valance, and some other odds and ends. Sum total including body work and paint will come to about 1200 dollars.. this is including a frame alignment. So, that being said I have sourced all the parts myself and done some of the work myself. Your overhang probly comes from the lack of shims, or pieces the factory used to correct ugly overhang . Third gen camaro's can be sourced at your local junk yard for, what should be a very reasonable price, however.. it really depends on where you go. In my experience it is best to stay away from GM and aftermarket. And while pretty much anything from '87 and up will work for your car it would be best to go for specific model year. Hope this is helpful and I understand as much if not more so than anyone how painful these cars can be to repair. ..Have gone many a week now near starving to see me true love back on the road. Oh, not to mention that it needs a new paint job which will probly cost me around 2000. lol

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I just got done with the fender gap and I'll let you guys be the judges. I loosened the fender/rocker bolt and pryed the fender out near the bottom and tightened it back up. I think the gap is better near the top of the fender now and I got some gap back at the hood/fender. I also measured the aftermarket right side fender and found it's 3/16 shorter than the left side factory....go figure. The hood sticks out 5/16 past the corner edge of the bumper cover so do the math and thats 2/16 I could shave if I had a better fitting fender.

IROC#1

That looks way better! Nice job!

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

Much better!
It's a shame the sfc's are preventing you from straightening out the pinchweld on the bottom. Getting that fender down just a little bit more would help close the gap at the top to the door. But hey ... looks good!

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

You referring to the top hinge? Bottom hinge? Or both hinges?