Hi, I'm new to the site and this is my first post, I was wondering if it is possible to install racing harnesses in the front seats without a rollcage to anchor them to? Would I have to anchor them to the floor behind the seats?
Thanks

 

im not sure if thats legal in some states (ive heard somewhere it is illegal). but a friend of mine had them attached to his rear seat bolts. seemed to work just fine.

 

If anyone digs up more on that, I'd also like to know, because I'd rather not cut a cage into the car, but I like the look of harnesses in a street car.

 

the main issue is safty. if you roll your car, and you have standard belts your head and neck will be hurt, but they will allow you to go to the side and not be killed (if you are lucky), with five ponts, you will be held firmly in place and you can break your neck in a rollover.

now that that has been said, a guy in my carclub put the side moints on his existing seat belt bolts, and used the front upper retractor to anchor the top two bits. or you can run a strap back to an anchor point in the back of the car. i would not use the rear seat mounting points, you do not the belt to angle more then 10* off from 90* off of your back. (IE 80-100* to the angle of your back while seated). to high and they will strech too far, to low and they can compress your spine.

 

The biggest issue with a harness (I have one in my Grand National with cage), and trying to tie it in without a cross bar behind the seat is something called "crush". Imagine if you will, what the belts would do if you were involved in a head on, or rear ended someone real hard.
Because the belts are anchored to the floor behind you, go vertical up over your shoulders and back down again to your waist area and are anchored to the tie point, which again goes to the lap belts which are tied to the floor.
They're going to crush down on you when force is applied in the horizontal plain... That's why it is a requirement that they be anchored at about shoulder height on a cross bar behind the seat. Not sho much crush pull that way.

 

thanks turbodave, that just confirmed what ive heard.

 

yeah, that is a much better version of what i was trying to say... thank you for articulating that so somone can actualy understand it.

 

So would it be best to mount the shoulder straps to somewhere just behind the rear seats? Thinking that the top of the diff tunnel would be solid and in about the right place? I'd be happy to run with the rear seat folded down when using harnesses.

Si.

 

Just found this :

Installing the 5-point racing harness

Which shows mountings on the diff tunnel. Thoughts anyone?

Si.

 

It would never pass a tech inspection at the track.

 

you need a solid point no lower then a couple inches below shoulder height.

period.


unless you add some thing to mount them to, you cannot safely add them.
thats what it basically comes down to.

 

... and to re-interate - IF YOU ROLL A CAR WITHOUT A ROLLCAGE AND YOU'RE USING 5 (or 6) POINT BELTS, YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO DIE FROM SEVERE HEAD TRAUMA.

These belts are only supposed to be used with all the rest of the appropriate safety equipment. Rollcage, with padding, helmet, window net, etc, etc.

It's like having a rollbar in your street car and you get clobbered or you roll it. Head to rollbar without a helmet = severe head trauma.

There are reasons that this sort of equipment is designed and used, and (unfortunately) it's not always appropriate for the street. Yea, it looks cool, and sure, it'll keep you in your seat better when you're doing 'extraordinary' things on the street, but it is not for everyday driving.

 

I'll disagree with this. You need a solid point that is within at most 10 degrees from perpindicular to your spine. ie. if you sit bolt upright then thats a slope of no more than 10 degrees down (ie. couple of inches lower). I don't sit bolt upright but have the seat at a slight reclining angle. What that does is put the perpindicular line actually hitting the diff tunnel half way up. Perfect, no?

Why? Could you let us know which aspect is the problem? apart from the lack of rollcage if your running on a track....

PF flyer: I agree almost entirely with what you say. However I would profer the thought that only a minor number of potential accidents would involve a roll that had enough crushing force to do that, and of those only a very few could be survivable with normal seatbelts anyway. However there are many accidents where a properly fitted harness would reduce the injurys compared with a normal seatbelt. The main reason for this is that the standard seatbelt with its double reels allows too much slack in the belt which lets your body accelerate with respect to the belt before bringing you to an abrupt halt. this slack will cause a minor shunt to be quite painful compared with harnesses.

It is the problems associated with the roll cage cracking your skull open that puts me off moving to a roll cage. That and it makes the whole of the rear of the car useless.

Si.

 

i'll agree that a better discription would have been a downward angle, and not inches, but you would have to have the seat WAAAAY down for what you said to be accurate.

 

Actually if you try it, and do the sums for where 10 degrees down gets you, you will find that mounting to the rear tunnel works just fine for angle.

 

iroc-si - also remember that racing seats, used with 5 point harnesses, do NOT fold forward to allow passengers into the rear, usually don't have any type of slider mechanism and minimal padding.

Agreed

I've seen rollovers on the street that the driver walked away from using standard DOT belts. I personally have rolled an older 4dr sedan with stock belts and was no worse the wear. Even drove the car home. Hitting a tree broadside negates any sort of survival rating, though.

Also remember, in many cases, racing belts (5 or 6 point harnesses) are not DOT approved, making them illegal for street use by local ordanince, as well.

As someone who has spent a number of years around the professional, as well as ametaur (road) racing circuits as a crew member and has driven tow trucks in and around Los Angeles for a number of years, I will continue to were my DOT belts in my street car or truck and my 5 point harnesses in my track car.

 

i was wondering if there was anyway you can mount the belts horizontal but still allow passengers to ride in the back seats. I was thinking of puting a crossbar right behind the front seats to mount the belts ,but then the passengers may not be able to get in the back becasue of the bar.....especially the big boned ones

 

Anyone got pics/links of the bar behind the seats for mounting. I dont want a full cage but wouldnt mind a rear hoop with the horizontal harness mount bar, thanks.

 

ChevyRS-305 - Nope.

AJ98Irocz - ... it's called a 'harness bar' and the ones I used to see mount in the seat belt retactor holes above the rear seats. Haven't seen them advertised much, lately, although LG Motorsorts may still carry it.

 

on a side note.. if you DO have a cage (note, i said CAGE. not rollbar.) you pretty much need to wear the harness.... otherwise the opposite of what you said is true... you're almost guaranteed to get severe head trauma from hitting the bars.. you need to be held still, in place.. at that point, you're trusting your cage wont come in on ya.

 

This raises an interesting conundrum for those of us with street/strip cars.

What to do about the passenger?

I recently installed a cage; and a harness for the driver. However, I left the passenger side shoulder-belted (seemed silly to have a harness for the passenger).

On the spray I anticipate needing a cage to pass tech (thinking 10's), but I still drive the car on the street from time to time. And I often have a passenger. So. . .is bar padding not sufficient to protect the passenger in the event of a collision?

 

NO NO NO!!!!

if you even if your car is new enough to have rear shoulder harnesses this is a bad idea. in a crash the rear passangers will fly forward into this bar. once you add any sort of metal back there you no longer use your rear seat. it is a saftey issue.

 

well, like all crash siceneros, its all based on theory driven by statistics and some opinion.

mine is pretty simple. if you have a cage in the car, you have metal bars inches from your head.
ideally, you would be wearing a helmet, have a neck brace, and the harness will hold you in place, keeping you from hitting the cage... the concept of the cage is that is such a solid structure that it will move teh force around it, but never come in on you. a secure "people compartment"..

realisticlly, i see it this way.
if you have a rollbar, wear whatever. your head should not be able to touch the bar behind you.
but, if you have a halo bar, your head is just mere inches away from that bar. you want to be held still, in place, away from teh cage, and everything, in the event of a impact.
all that said..... i donno what i'll wear regularly.. i'll leave myself the option for both, but bucking a 5pt harness all the time sucks. plus i cant reach to grab things with it on... but then again, i dont keep much in the car, and i can reach the stereo.... when its installed.
if im ****ing around with the car and a cage, i wear a harness. really, if its poperly installed, its safer then anything else, except in the case of a roll over. and most people have alteast a good rollbar if they have a harness... so i kinda view it as a moot point.


as far as padding goes, in a accident, a little helps alot, but expect to still be hurt if you get smacked in the head with a padded steel bar.