hey eveyone now before the bashing begins i know that from what ive read this car doesnt exist however i purchased one about 2 years ago and always thought it was just converted from an auto. now as im goin through a tear down for an upcoming restoration i expected to find a hacked up tunnel but its clean?!? heres some pictures so u know what i mean also it has the correct 145 speedo and the upshift light which is functional and the vin has an 8 for the 5.7 also it has these weird plates where the ac should be? so can i please get some help figuring out what i have or dont have.
thanks!!






also can anybody post a picture of a stock 5spd tranny tunnel is anyone has one

Thanks alot guy!

 

Don't know how helpful the following will be, but check the pic:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...ber-mounts.jpg

You have an A/C delete car, which is why the vents are blocked off.

JamesC

 

THANKS that actually was helpfull! soooo by the looks of my tunnel would you say that it was a factory 5spd!??!

 

kinda looks like my tranny tunnel. and the upshift light always works. just on auto cars they dont put a bulb in it... as far as the speedo 305 cars got them too

 

well as far as the engine goes the vin tells me that it is infact a factory 350 with an 8 being in the 8th spot on the vin?.

 

Actually, I have an '88, and none of the wiring for the upshift bulb is even there. I've had the instrument cluster completely out, and there's no connector or place to even put a bulb in for the upshift light.

 

I'd believe that the VIN has been tampered with, or the car has been chopped, before I'd believe that it's a factory 5 speed L98.

 

 

well just like u guys id never belive that it exsist either but im just trying to clarify....if u guys would like i can take a picture of the pink slip or vin tag just to prove that its a clean tittle and no tampering of the vin has occurred and if it has been modified what should i look for exactly?? because the tranny tunnel if clean as far as that cut goes.. no sharp or odd edges at all??

Thanks

 

The only thing that would be definitive would be the RPO sheet.

 

Yes show us MM5 and L98/B2L and well believe it. Other wise it is very very unlikly its a 350 5spd car.
Matt

 

Check the other vin #s on the car. There is vin stickers everywhere (one by the spare tire for shure). Somone could of changed the one by the dash because he dident have the title for that car and had the one for that vin.

 

well since i am tearing it down right now for paint i actually have checked the vins and the only one thats different is the one on the hood, but that was replaced with a hood from another and as for the rpo sheet thats what i hoped would let me know but unfortunately the arm rest has been replaced and the vin on the rpo sticker is for another car. does anyone know if its possibly to get another rpo sheet printed based on the vin number??

 

No such thing as a 350 5 spd ever

 

The engine would have the last 6 digits of the VIN stamped on the pad on the front of the engine if they match it would be the original engine (not likely) or possibly the car was rebuilt somewhere along the line I had a 88 Formula that had been rebuilt with two cars and nothing matched eng/trans/VIN... later found out it had been clipped (repaired early in it's life by a body shop) chances are it was either repaired or the engine replaced (are you sure it's a 350) they look the same as a 305 externally, I checked with a representitive from GM who is on the boards and he confirmed there were NO 350 5, speed cars made.. so something is wrong somewhere.

 

Why do everybody say it doesn't exist, when it does? It just took a special order, and a helpful stealership. Yes they were hard to come by, and weren't produced normally, but they could be had, with effort in the first few years. In later years, GM did manage to put a stop to it.

 

hmmm i mean its not like im trying to convince you guys that i have one im just trying to figure out what this started as and if it was modified id like to know what happened. i just looked at the interior and the vin sticker on both inner quarter panels are accurate soo i dont think it was hacked up?? where exactly would the vin on the engine be so i can look for that?? also is a reproduction rpo sheet available anywhere??
sorry for any troubles but thank you for u time, im just trying to solve something thats been bugging me.

 

No official 350 5 speeds. :shifty eyes:

 

I would consider the source at GM as having the correct information and working at a dealership for over 15 years and actually having people who tried to order stuff like that (it couldent be done) I would have to actually see a untouched and documented car to believe it ever happened, I went to the GM training centers at both Detroit and Chicago in the days when the prototype camaro and firebirds were there (yes there were prototypes with 350s and stick transmissions) but they were Pre production incomplete cars with NO VIN #s for durability testing and NONE were ever released to the public I even saw the remains of both the cars I saw a previous year after they were destroyed they brought a crusher on site and made sure they went in That has been GM policy for years, sorry but I don't believe it's a correct car..

 

As soon as you produce a RPO sheet from one of those special cars I'll believe it. Until then, No way, no how.

 

The VIN should be on the engine ID pad under the alternater the last 6 digits should match the last 6 on the VIN GMs chevrolet devision dosen't have a record of that data like the pontiac historical has so there would be no way to verify the RPOs ..

 

Depending on the year of your car, your local GM dealership should be able to give you a full list of RPO's for your vehicle. All they will need is your VIN.
United States may be different, but here in Canada a parts counter person or service advisor can easily access this information online.
I have no problem getting all my RPO codes, warranty history, vehicle delivery information, etc. etc. for my '92 Camaro. However my '84 is too old and some of the information is incomplete in the system.
I could do a search for you if your car was sold in Canada.
But I cannot access the information if your car was sold outside Canada.

FASTCARS

 

G.M. never put a 5sp. behind a 350, the trans couldn't take the torque. Thats why all 350s had auto trans behind them. If you think I'm wrong, try and buy a stock memcal for a 350 with a m.t. in it. I have searched for such a memcal, they don't exist. Probably the only way to get a memcal for that setup is to get one from a corvette, but the trans in a vette wasn't a 5 sp.

 

i think it can be real.. anyone ever heard of a the first toyota tacoma with 4 doors having a full size bed?? i believe the 1995-2004 models.. they "only" came with 4 doors and that really short bed.. but there is one on maui, that has the 4 doors and a regular, full size bed.. the only one i have ever seen in my life.. and it is from the dealership.. i have talked to that guy before..

 

The difference between that Tacoma and an L98 with a factory 5 speed would be that the Tacoma exists and is documented to exist.

The L98/T5 combination has had 20 years to turn up in verifiable existance, but nobody has ever found one. That, in combination with reams of documentation from GM saying specifically that combination was never offered very strongly suggests that this particular car isn't what it seems to be.

 

hmmm well ill try goin to the dealership and seeing what i can do about the rpo's also im ganna check the engine block later on, any other advise on what to look for?? cuz i swear i even try to tell myself that theres no way this is possibly but it just looks so real?

 

Look for the casting number on the block behind the driver side head and the numbers stamped in the deck in front of the passenger side head.

 

Maybe instead of arguing how unlikely it is, we could help him find an answer?

You can also check for an RPO sticker in the little storage compartment in the hatch. There's also talk of build sheets found tucked up under the seats.

A carfax on your vin may also provide a clue as to whether it's original to the car or not.

A call to a dealership may get you started on the process of obtaining an RPO sheet.

 

I found my RPO sheet on the door to the little hatch compartment.

 

I work at a fairly large dealership and have tried to access stuff that old the problem is it would have had to come into the dealership to have a record of it there is no national database for GM products that im aware of as far as service records ... you may still be able to get RPO codes from the vin in the GM parts data base but How specific I don't know, they purge the system of data older than 5-7 years except carryover models so the data may or may not be there ...

 

Canadian dealers must have a much better system than the one being used in the U.S. I have access to all information pertaining to any GM vehicle sold in Canada. Regardless of what dealer it was sold at or where it has been serviced. The information is all accessed through a program called GMVIS. The only limitation in the system is vehicle age, but no information I am aware of has ever been purged. I can get more information than I need to know on my '92, but my '84 is a little vague, as records were only kept on paper at that time.

 

okay guys it turns out it is a factory L98 and no damage ever reported attached is the carfax printout so i guess next on the list to do is ganna try and see what the dealership can do for me.

any other ideas on what to do next?

 

sorry didnt realize photobucket would shrink it so heres an attachment of the picture

 

A list of RPO codes for that car is the only way to know for sure.

 

Right. Everything else is just speculation.

And there's a reason why nobody has ever furnished an RPO tag for an L98/T5 car. They don't exist.

There's more to it than just the issue of the T5 not handling the torque, although that's the root of the issue. The real issue was CAFE certification. Car manufacturers are required to certify all drivetrain types for fuel economy regulations, and this is a costly thing to do. This is one of many costly reasons why you can't just give your dealer a wink and a nudge and drive off the lot with a COPO anymore. GM can't make stuff that hasn't been put through a ton of expensive evaluations and certifications. If GM ever sold these cars, there would be a paper trail of all the various certifications that it had to achieve. If they spent all the money to do that, they would have sold every damned one they could build.

They do not exist, no matter how badly people want to believe otherwise. GM never spent the money to get the CAFE and other certifications, most likely because they knew that the T5's torque capacity was insufficient. Without this certification, you can be sure that the cars just don't exist.

 

Pull the carpet out. A 5speed tranny tunnel could have been installed in place of the auto tranny tunnel when the 5speed conversion was done.

Or, the VIN from the 350 donor car could have been swapped on along with the matching motor. (keeping VIN and matching motor together) for install into a 305 5speed car.

Pull the ECM cover off. What is the 4 letter PROM code on the factory chip?

 

5 speed tranny tunnel? a t-5 will bolt right into an autos spot, they even use the same crossmember, i thought but guess could be wrong all the tunnels were even the same and all you had to do was cut the hole in the floor for the clutch, which there is even a template for.

How does everyone jump to the conclusion of some magical mysterious car?

why did you just check the 8th digit on the vin, run the whole vin in the decoder, if everything checks out for the year it should be and it says its a 350 auto car, someone probably just put a t-5 in it.

I could be off by a year or so but i believe in 88-92 the they built the world class t-5's which while theyre not the strongest trannies in the world, people run them into the 12's no problem, you just cant dump the clutch from 4000 or powershift or anything stupid like that.

Id say odds are your weak 700-r4 died and was replaced with a 5 speed. enjoy it, and be nice to it

 

A T5 car has a big square hole under the console for the shifter to protrude through. An automatic car has no such hole, and has the selector mounting brackets spot welded to the floor.

 

learn something new every day, i just figured when they put the TKO 5 speed in my car they had to cut out so much metal because the shifter was a bit off to the side, that makes sense tho.

I guess since his tunnel isnt hacked up chances are its a 305 5 speed with a fake vin tag, thats not uncommon at all, people do that thinking they can sell them for more

should be able to use the seat of the pants gauge to figure that one out lol, assuming youve ever been in a 350 car.
if not just check the back of the engine block, theres casting numbers i think the website is www.mortec.com ? if thats wrong just google for chevy casting numbers.

 

The VIN only decodes the engine, not the tranny, so decoding the whole wouldn't reveal any more. Chances are, he did decode the VIN, but there's no reason to mention anything but the 8th digit.

 

We have VIS here too, its not american or canadian its GM North America operations.. same stuff.. only shows warranty work/recalls, not cash jobs. Not sure how far the information goes back though, somewhere in the early 90's I belive.. could easily obtain a complete option list for the car if it were new enough.. really doubtful though and kind of a moot point considering GM never made a production version..

 

My money's on the VIN swap. Kind of long odds for the tranny tunnel to be swapped and be the same body color. Didn't think of the ECM though, ESC module could also be checked as they're different 5.0 to 5.7. Still doesn't prove anything, though.

 

What do the rest of your vin stickers say. Your quarters, doors, hatch, any origional body pannel will have a vin sticker on it. That tranny tunnel hole looks very factory.
Matt

 

heres the vin and the quarter pannel i will try and get ecu numbers and engine #s later on

 

Those are a bit hard to make out, but appear to match, as best as I can tell.

It'll be really cool if everything matches, and "proves" to be a factory 5.7/T-5, but even then, there are people who will claim it as a hoax, and discount it.

I still believe they exist.

 

It is possible to have a l98 with a five seed. I have read it in a mag I have missed placed. I'll try and find it. I the mag it brakes down third gens year by year. It said that you could get it only in a 1le that was custom ordered that way. One reason you did not see alot ordered that way is do to ssca regs. The 1le's were made to race ssca and they were only aloud to have 305's so that they could race them against the mustangs. The other reasons were that they would have been almost the same performance as the vette's and be alot cheaper. That is way GM only offered them in the 1le. No radio and a\c, who would want a car like that just for a 5 speed, and have to wait for it to be made and shipped to the dealer. That is why they are so rare. GM does not know how many they made and they only had it for an option for 2-3 years. I think it was 87-89 or 87-90. I'll talk to my friend that is a GM sales rep. and foud out if and how to get a copy of the build sheet from GM. I know you can for any vette that was ever made. I think he said you can get it for any car. By the way GM only keeps things on computer from 1990 to present.

Now to see if the car is a real 350 5sp. You said the car does not have a/c right? Does the have 16 inch iroc wheels and two piston brake calipers? Radio? Does the car have T-tops? Is the motor tpi or tbi? Does it have power windows, mirriors, and doors? And have you ever had problems getting the wrong parts for it, or they don't look the same? How much gas does your gas tank hold? Is the speed off calibration? Is the driveline aluminum?

The way the floor pan looks, it looks like a real 5-speed car. All the cars I have seen or converted to sticks, do not have paint on the edge of shifter hole. Yours looks like it does. It also looks like it isn't sharp like someone used a saw to cut the hole. You also said that the shift light works. Most people would not go that far when converting it over. It also looks like the wires for an auto are not there by the shifter hole.

Hope this helps
GM tech
Virgel

 

thanks for giving me things to investigate 89ta haha these are the answers i have so far it is tpi, hardtop, it originally did have radio delete i believe and currently has a/c delete and i do believe it has dual piston 1LE brake calipers im not sure about the driveshaft?, and nothing is power, manual door locks, mirrors, and windows, the gas tank i think is somewhere from 12 to 14 gallons? i dont recall exactly. if you can find the magazine that would be wonderful, im ganna try and take a trip to the local chevy dealer to see what info i can get.
Thanks Alot!

 

Check the dog. Maybe he ate it.

Perhaps your friends uncle knows a guy who's brother's cousin..........


This post is absoletely fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!! Reminds me of the good ole days!!!!!

 

Lol, no kidding. It is a very interesting car but even "very rare" cars are still in existence and that is why we have pictures of their SPID sheets. So when does the thread about "I have a 91/92 GTA convertible" start? Or their 86 with a 350?

We can track down the less then 20 TTAs that have hard tops and cloth, we even tracked down 1983 Daytona Pace Cars with hard tops (that where thought to not exist). There is so much evidence that a 350 5-speed doesn't exist (namely the CAFE stuff) and no evidence that it does (so far) that until I see a SPID that has all the right info on it, I won't believe it.

 

As much as I believe this car soes not exist Im tring to keep an open mind about it. Its kinda like the 83 daytona hardtop cars were a few years ago. We all said they didnt exist, then a few showed up, along with a picture from years ago of a bunch of them. Granted the 83 is a lil more feasible. This car does seem very legit, having everything to make it a stripped down 1LE. But, only a SPID will prove its real. Unfortunatly, due to the age of the car a SPID is probably no longer avalible.
Matt