I知 getting ready to shoot High Teck bc/cc on my TA and the data sheet says mix 1:1 with reducer, and (optional) up to 10% hardener.

now my question is how important is the hardener? There seems to be quite the debate about hardener in the basecoat. I知 a newb and really want to get this right

 

I know that the chemistry is different depending on brands. Yesterday, I shot PPG Shopline JB base coat in the engine bay of my 1987 IROC. The product information sheet said to only mix reducer with it.

The Shopline primer/sealer and the clear coat both required a hardener.


It was 95F and my clear coat hardener was "only good to 85F." Still, I worked fast and only had a few dry spots. I'm an amatuer painter and I think that if I had the "extra slow" hardener, the clear edges would've flowed or melted into the rest of the clear easier/better. Lots of gloss and I'm real happy with it.

 

I'm an amateur painter, but I think addition of hardener is always a good idea.

 

I'm not a fan of red, but that's some nice work there!

To the OP, as others have said, it depends on the chemistry of the particular brand you're shooting, as well as atmospheric conditions. I had a painter screw up the paint/hardener ratio on the Imron we were shooting my '71 T/A with, and it literally took months for it to set. You might try simply painting a scrap piece of metal w/o the hardener to see how it works before you try to paint the car.

 

Ive never heard of high teck paint. So id do some more research on that brand if you want to do it 'right'.

Now there is nothing wrong with shooting base at 1:1 with just reducer. The addition of hardener is to help strengthen the base if youre shooting over questionable substrate, not using a sealer, doing graphics which require multiple different colors and taping to the base, not ideal temps/humidity ect.

But for any beginner, shoot the base, wait 30 mins then shoot your clear. Wait 48 hours, sand clear with 800 then shoot 2 or 3 more coats of clear and you will have a near perfect gloss that even the coolest painter would be proud off..

 

Also using High Teck BC/CC - I used the "wet" look hardener on my door jambs and trunk jambs. Also "new" at paint and body. I sprayed those in December of last year, under my carport, on a windless day. Temperature maybe low 60s, no humidity (or rather low). I used the "fast dry" reducer (temp range 55-65 degrees). In those conditions, I found the paint "flashed" too quickly to apply the CC. The surface with just the BC plus hardener is "satin" and not glossy as the factory. In hindsight, I probably should not have used the hardener, since it would have allowed me to CC. Now I am waiting for the weather to turn (Dallas, TX) and I will need to scuff sand the jambs again, apply a new coat of BC and then CC before the "flash" or attempt to CC over the BC (way dry by now) and hope for the best?.. For all that rambling I think the hardener depends on the temp/humidity conditions when you are applying.. But again really "new" to painting, and I have made mistakes, but slowly learning by each of them

 

Thank you, Gene. It turned out good except for the dry spots on the clear coat that I'm pretty sure was because of the "slow" hardener only being good to 85F and the actual temperature was 95F. I needed the "ultra slow" hardener. Most of the dry spots are in areas that are hard to see and that's why I didn't notice them during painting. I paid a lot of attention to the areas that are very visible and they are nice and glossy.

That's a bummer on what happened to your Trans Am. Did it get fixed properly months later?

 

I'm confused. Base coat typically goes on non-glossy and the clear coat is the gloss. My red base coat went on "satin" with no gloss. What do you mean, "flashed too quickly to apply the CC?" I'm trying to learn so that I can do a better paint job next time.

 

From what I read and watched; flash time is where the paint turns from "wet/tacky" to almost "dry/sticky". I read and reread the BC instructions and scratched my head as I did not want to screw this up. "Prior to clearcoat application, allow a minimum of 20 minutes flash time to at 70 degrees and max 24 hours at 70 degrees."
My questions which I could never get a handle of what is Flash vs Flash Off time (or are they the same)?
Again, I am completely new to painting, not expecting perfection, and willing to learn all I can from anyone who has experience. Most people I talked to have just worked with auto enamel single stage stuff. And I valued all their information.
When I painted the jambs, I only had one HVLP gun, so I needed more time from "flash" to clean the BC out of it, and mix/load the CC. Now I am a little more prepared with two HVLP guns, and the cheap throw away paint cups for the gun. So the plan is have HVLP gun setup and BC/CC mixed BEFORE I attempt to spray.

 

this makes no sense. You have 20 mins to 24 hours. How is it too quick in 24 hours? Spray the base, if youre worried, let it sit for 2 hours. Then spray your clear. Or let it sit over night, and then spray your clear. It’s that simple

sand the clear, spray more over it. It’ll look even better with another clear session

It’s not that complicated. We paunt entire cars with one gun. Mix the base, put it in the gun, spray until its empty, mix more base spray again. Same with clear. You only need one gun. And I'm in az, we paint in the booth when its 110 degrees and sweat is rolling off every inch of your body.

Wish you guys were around the block, it’s really easy to show you how to paint, from there it’s just practice. Everyone out there makes painting a car seem like some euro science experiment that only super smart types can figure out. Every person I have shown, or taught is always like, wow I didn’t know you could do that.

 

Thanks @bklife I appreciate your responses, truly good knowledge you shared. As I stressed before absolutely new to painting. And YES "Everyone out there makes painting a car seem like some euro science experiment that only super smart types can figure out." I know I over think things way too much (sort of my job in IT Security). I always imagine painting cars is like a mad scientist in the mixing booth with all the potions.
You mentioned 110-degree heat. Are reducer speeds "Critical" when painting in high heat? For example, over thinking it, but the highest reducer I have is a range from 65-75 degrees. It says for over 75 as well. Would you (I know you have not used this particular product) but use a different ratio to compensate for the higher temps?
My project is stalled because I "thought" I had to keep in the recommended temp ranges? And like AZ it 100 degrees but humid in Texas. Now I know not all shops are airconditioned, but assumed paint booths were temperature controlled?
Again, brand new/ amateur, and just trying to figure this out. Appreciate your time and pointers Sir!

 

Your base coat's instructions are very similar to my PPG Shopline JB Acrylic Basecoat. My JB basecoat's product information sheet says, "Dry time to clearcoat-20 mins minimum, 24hours maximum at 70F."

I may be wrong but I'm starting to think that you think that the basecoat isn't supposed to be dry before applying clear. The basecoat is most definitely going to be dry. However, it's not fully dry (or cured, if hardener was used.) When you apply the clear over the base within 24 hours (or probably as little as 12 hrs in my 95F temperature) then the clear chemically bonds to the not fully dry basecoat. If you wait for more than 24 hrs, the basecoat is fully dry and no chemical bonding can take place. That's why you have to scuff up the basecoat after 24hrs; to give the clear coat something to mechanically bond to.

If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I only have one paint gun and I had to thoroughly clean it between primer/sealer, base and clear coats. Each coat probably had over an hour to dry/cure before the next coat went on. In my 95F temps, I can assure you that the previous coats were very dry to the touch.

 

paint in the morning, let it dry during the hot day. Colder reducer temps cause the chemical reactions (dry times) to speed up. This really isn稚 an issue, but can cuase bubbles in the clear. If its hot out, use the slowest reducer/hardner you can. But if all you have is one product, spray early to avoid the most heat. Its 0930 here right now and showing 92 degrees. Slow reducer is best, but I could use medium or even fast if I was shooting some door jambs or something like that.
c知on sir, you know what they say about assuming. Temp controlled booths maybe in some high end shop, but since 1989 I have only see one or two of those.
it痴 a learning curve. I壇 find some local car guys and see who paints in their garage. Giev them a six pack or buy some pizza and get that person over to your house to help teach you.
no worries, just tryin to be a good neighbor..

 

It just slowly.... set. After a month, or so, it was okay, save for the water spots that hit the hood when we sat it in the bed of my truck for the trip home at 0300 one humid morning. Once I got the car home, it went into the garage, so it was allowed to set in a dry garage. It was mostly race car-ish, so a 20-foot paint job was fine.