Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, before the engine mess started (don't ask- I think I finally fixed it), I had one heck of a time redoing my front brakes, The guide pins in the front right caliper had to be replaced, and I still have to get a pair of guide pins to reset my alingment. Whoever did the brakes before really screwed up that side. I mean, they were using flat washers as spacers, throwing the caliper out of alignment, and they didn't use never-seez on the pins, causing them to rust in place. I guess sitting however long the car sat didn't help, either... Well, anyways, after I got everything back together, I tried to bleed the brakes. I've done them twice, and being inexperienced like I am at brakes, I still have yet to get them right. (I guess it's a good thing my engine started to leak) My question is if there is a shortcut to bleeding the brakes, such as a pair of locking pliers on the bleeding hose rather than opening and closing the valve the whole time, or if there is a different way to do it altogether. Everyone I have help me presses the pedal to the floor and then brings it back up before I have a chance to close the bleeder valve, and lets in used fluid, making the brakes seem tighter than they really are. Help!

ede

pheniox injector is the quickest and best way to bleed any hydrolic system i've ever seen or used.

melamkish

Short of getting a pressure bleeder like ede mentioned, another way to bleed your brakes by yourself if to replace your stock bleeder screws with bleeder screws with a built in check valve. Step on the pedal, fluid goes out. Let up on the pedal, check valve closes and keeps air and old fluid out.. Go slow and keep the master cylinder full and the waste bottle emptied.

I put a set on the Jeep and bleeding the brakes was a snap. When the calipers go back on the Camaro, they will get a new bleeder screws. I got mine at NAPA. If I have time at work today, will look up the part number and post.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Would you look up those P/N's for me? That would help a bunch. That's the last thing I have to do besides the exhaust before inspection....

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Okay, I looked up those check valve bleeder valves, and they are WAY out of my price range for that sort of thing. I just bled my brakes again today using a very long piece of rubber hose as a bleeder hose and a pair of pliers to use as a valve while in the driver's seat pumping the brake pedal, so this time would be sure to get it right, right? I am still having trouble with the brakes, namely the fact that the pedal sinks halfway to the floor before the brakes even begin to grab. I tried to back out of my driveway to test the brakes and almost got in an accident with an oncoming car because the pedal was still almost all the way to the floor and the brakes were still not grabbing like they were supposed to. I have new Wearever Silver pads, a new driver's side caliper and new hoses in the front, and have not made any changes in the rear. The car has been sitting for about a month while I performed work on it that is still ongoing, and I noticed that the rotors on the front seem to have a lot of rust on them. I still have a brake warning light on no matter what I do. I've followed GM's bleeding procedure to the period three times now and still can't get the balance right. Do I need to try to bleed the brakes again? Should I try to get the rust off of the rotors the best I can? Also, since my brake fluid, from the top of the master cylinder to the bottom of the rear passenger side drum brake cylinder, looks a lot like muddy, rusty water, should I try changing the fluid and seeing if that helps? I have to be on the road by Saturday and will work from dawn one day to dawn the next day if I have to.

RJR99SS

the cheapest and most effictive way is this.

Get the car in the air, take all 4 tires off. Have someone pump the brake up 3 times and hold it.

Start with the right rear bleeder (the one farthest away from the master cylinder first). Crack open the bleeder while your buddy is holding the pedal down, fluid and air will come out and your friend will remark that the pedal just dropped on him.

Keep doing that until no more air bubbles come out of the Bleeder. Then do the same to the left rear bleeder, work your way around in order of farthest from the master cylinder. Once you get all the air out, bleed each wheel one more time just to be sure all the air is out.

Then you're done.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I went out today and bought a whole gallon of fresh DOT 3 brake fluid. When I got home, I siphoned the junk fluid out of the reservoir and tightened my brake light switch, noticing that was loose and leaking, and then pumped the fluid out of the rest of the system to make sure I was starting out clean. I then filled up the master cylinder and bled the brakes, but I had to do it over because I somehow managed to let the master cylinder empty while I was bleeding the last wheel. It came out that I was worrying over nothing at first because I thought the pedal travel was excessive, but now it's tight. I just need to get rid of that brake light now...

RJR99SS

did the light startup after you started messing with the brakes?

If so it's probably the pressure differential switch. It's just a cylinder with a rod in it, each side of the brake system is plumbed to each side of the rod. So if both sides of the system work, then the rod just stays centered. If you loose pressure in one side (like draining fluid out) it will push the rod to one side and hit a set of contacts that causes the brake light to come on.

When you get pressure back in both sides it's suppose to re-center the road. The problem with the switch is that over time varnish builds up inside there and once the rod goes to one side....it could get stuck there. Leaving your light on.

The pressure differential switch is in your combination valve. You could replace the whole thing, or try to clean it out. I've had good luck just taking the combo valve out and cleaning it with rubbing alcohol or brake cleaner.

TomP

Uh oh... the m/c ran dry? Bleeding that thing is a complete pain in the butt. There's a quick-take-up valve in the bottom of the m/c body (not the reservoir, the aluminum body- feel the bottom of the body where it goes against the booster) that likes to hold air.

I fought with it for a while before getting the phoenix injector (model # v12), and that thing helped me finally get a firm pedal. You might just want to go to a suspension/brake/tire shop (preferably not sears!) and just ask them to pressure bleed the whole system.

I went through many days and many big bottles of brake fluid trying to get my brakes back... I wish I bought the phoenix injector first. http://www.brakebleeder.com and I think http://www.toolparadise.com or http://www.northerntool.com has the full kit for cheaper.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Yaeh, but if you completely empty the system and let just plain old air in the lines like I did before refilling the system, wouldn't spring action recenter the rod and pistons in the proportioning valve, and then bleeding all four brakes properly keep the valve centered, or am I slightly off about this? (I'm new to brakes, so don't laugh too hard reading this)

RJR99SS

well thats how its supposed to work. But like i said, varnish builds up and there and the rod can get stuck.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Should I try to flush the system with brake cleaner or something? I have plenty of brake fluid left.

RJR99SS

well i dunno, i'd eliminate any other problems before you go there.

But the easiest way would be to just remove the combo valve and clean it. Or just replace it...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I would just replace the valve, but two word come to mind when that is said:

GOT MONEY??

TomP

Seriously, that's your problem- you need to get that whole system bled- and bled properly. If the guys you're finding to help you don't know how to work the brake pedal, find new guys.

And you DEFINATELY have to bench-bleed that master cylinder. The main reason why is that you let air in... there's no other way.

Some troubleshooting tips I can offer ya-

Get those hose-crimp-off pliers from a parts store. You know, the ones that gently shut a hose off. Put one on each brake hose (both fronts and the rear axle-to-body hose). Try the brake pedal. If it's soft, you know the problem is not at the wheels. If it's hard, remove the clamps from one hose at a time until you get a soft pedal- and that's your problem wheel.

Find plugs for the master cylinder (just about damn near impossible) ports. Disconnect the m/c from the prop valve and install the plugs into the ports. Try the pedal. If it's soft, you've got air. If there's no air, the pedal will be rock-hard.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

I have intentionally let the master cylinder run dry while draining the brake fluid. To bleed them I used the Mity-vac. I simply topped off the master, then sucked the fluid out to the furthest wheel. I never had a problem with the brake light or a soft pedal. Just my 2 cents, also the Mity-vac is cheaper than the pheonix injector.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Okay, I'll bite. What's this Mity-Vac?

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

It is that hand held vacume pump that you hook up to the bleader valve. You build up the vacume and open the valve, there is no brake pumping involved. You can get the plastic version at autozone or the better metal one at better tool places.

z28cdoyle

You have had better luck than me with the Mity-Vac. I have one and have never never ever got it to work. It keeps sucking air in from somewhere instead of pulling fluid out the bleeder screw. I think it is pulling air thru the bleeder screw threads or past the caliper piston seals. Anyway, when I use it, all I get is air bubbles and no brake fluid. I have tried using it on several other kinds of car as well with the same results. I put it back in the tool box and bought Russell Speed Bleeders (the same as the check valve bleeder screws someone else mentioned). I don't remember the cost, but I didn't think they were overpriced.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, at first I had some trouble with it. But then I used one of the pointed adapters that it comes with, not the 90* one that is supposed to used for the bleader screw. I stick the small pointed one inside of the bleader and get it up to about 25 in Hg then just barely crack the bleader. I do get some bubbles but the brake fluid does come out too.

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

Just a caution to something I ran into recently. Sometimes these NON factory built new master cylinders are not honed as deeply in the bore as factory units. I bled my brakes with the two man method and days later the system had air. I pressure checked the system and no leaks but yet there was air in the system. I replaced the master cylinder again with a new one. Used the two man system and two days later, I had spongy brakes. What I finally found out was by using the two man method with these master cylinders that were'nt honed deeply is that the person doing the pumping in the car was pushing the pedal to the floor and pushing the piston passed the honed bore into the rough cast of the bore, ruining the piston. The master cylinder would eventually take on air. I bought a Phoenix injector and no more problems but the solution for the two man method is place a two by four under the pedal so you don't go all the way to the floor. The brakes will still bleed properly but you don't force the piston into the rough cast of the unhoned portion of the bore.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

So does that mean whenever you really have to get on the brakes, to either stop or push out a caliper after changing pads, that you are going to destroy the piston in the master cylinder? It seems like a really bad design to me and I would never even think about using one of those master cylinders at all.

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

No, not exactly. The company assumes you would never push the pedal to the floor under any normal driving condition. And with all the various brake bleeding machines, you'd never really would pushe the pedal to the floor except when...you guessed it...you bleed the brakes with the two man method. You might be surprised who sells these. Auto Zone and Checker to name a couple.