Hey there-
To the guys who did the front-end C4 swaps last year, how are the brakes holding up? I know alloy (aka machinist) and ebmiller did the swap about the same time but did it each a slightly different way - can either of you guys provide a follow-up as to how they system is working? Still like it?

I'm cosidering this swap this winter and not so interested in the ever-popular LS1 swap because of a 15 inch wheel issue.

Just wondering if those who did the C4 upgrade and stuck with it could give an update.

C-ya
K

 

Sure...I've had absolutely NO problems with the ones on my RS. It stops like mad. I can only praise these brakes. Alloy sold his brakes to Dewey and he has good words for them also. Alloy upgraded to his Wilwood setup that is sold thru Spohn.

Really...if you want to keep the 15s as you mentioned, I CANNOT think of a more budget minded system to install.

Ed

 

I love mine. I swapped out my old 10 bolt drum to a 9 bolt with PBR brakes over the Thanksgiving weekend and did the C4 swap a couple of weekends ago. I was very impressed with the results. During a panic stop for a light I applied the same amount of pressure as with the original brakes and came to a stop about 5 car lengths before the light. This is my play car so it doesn't get driven too often but from what I have drove it I can honestly say it's well worth the money. I wouldn't imagine that the Baer brakes would be much, if any better.

 

Very encouraging guys. So, did both of you use the spindle bracket with the 4-hole design? --The one with the design that was posted on the site in the C4 brake thread. Any problems with the bracket being the turn stop? I know that was one of the areas of concern about that design. Are you having any rubbing problems you can attribute to the design of the spindle bracket??

Thanks
K

 

a little off topic, but, are the brakes adaptable to the rear? I want wheels that will clear 15"s. specifically pro stars

 

I haven't noticed any problems.

 

Mongoose has my setup on his car and they both use the 4 hole bracket design that Luke posted in the C4 thread. There's no issue of the bracket hitting the steering stop. The factory stop is cut off the spindle but if you look at the back of the spindle, you can see where the A-arm makes contact with the spindle and there's no contact issues here. There are no contact issues based on the design of this bracket, it's really a great setup.

KAG, this setup is for the fronts, not the rears. I know of a few guys out there using front C4 brakes on the rear of their cars but that's a whole different design. These C4 brakes will clear 15" wheels.

Ed

 

Great. So, no tire rubbing problems either - correct? Did either of you notice if your turning radius changed at all? As in, you could make a tighter turn in a parking lot for instance.

K

 

Well, my car being lowered I already had a rub spot at the rear of the wheelwell. The kit pushes the wheel out about 3/8" which helps to fill out the wheelwell quite nicely. Otherwise I've had no turning issues.

 

I'm also interested in seeing if front GTA wheels will clear them as well as American Racing TT2s. I'm looking at a wheel swap sometime in the near future and these are my choices.

 

Ed will probably chime in here, but he told me awhile back that there shouldn't be any problems with the GTA rims. The only issue I'm aware of is the wheel stud length; the lug nut caps won't fit with some of the studs that have been used.

My front end rebuild is progressing a little slower than I had hoped; the rear suspension took longer than planned thanks to LOTS of seized bolts and I'm getting a room ready for a new addition to the family. I'm still on the fence concerning which brake upgrade to use. Frankly, I'm a bit concerned about liability issues with the C4 upgrade in case I ever sell the car. I guess after owning it 10 years that should be the last thing to worry about, but if I ever do sell it and it was in an accident I don't want some loser coming back and suing me.

 

Good news! I just got my hands on a GTA front crosslace wheel and will be test fitting the C4s and LS1s in it by this weekend. I'll post my results and snap some pics of what it'll look like.

Some guys have mentioned a problem with the lug nut caps but I don't have them on my RS so I don't know first hand. I'll be testing that out when I fit the wheel up, too.

Ed

 

The lug caps fit fine on mine after the swap Ed.The studs you used on mine came right to the top of the lugnuts so that size should be good for all who use the caps. Maybe a problem for those with chrome lugs though.

 

Thanks Mike. Others will be glad to hear that. I do know that lugs with enclosed ends will give problems, though

Ed

 

Hey again-
So, did any of you end up making changes to the master cylinder or to the proportioning valves?
My IROC has rear drums - so, just wondering if I get around to swaping them out in addition to the C4 front end change would a new MC and/or prop valve be needed?

Don't know if it's even possible, but would it be wise to get the MC off a C4 - perhaps the donor car for the brake parts??

K

 

As long as your not also swapping the rear to discs you should be fine with the M/C that you have with the C4 brakes.

 

I'm using the same disc/drum master that my car came with. All masters were the same in ALL cars from '90-up, but I think you'd be fine anyway. Like Mike said, I wouldn't worry about it unless you also swap to rear discs. Also, I don't know if a "C4" master would work anyway. If you want to change masters, get the one for a 1LE car..I listed the number a while back. C4 calipers are the same essentially as the 1LEs so that master will work.

Ed

 

Good news, boys! The GTA crosslace wheels fit wth no problems. AND, the black lug caps wll fitt, too. Here's a pic of it. One thing to note here, I used ARP studs on my RS and they are around 1/4" longer than the Motormite studs I use now, so that's why you'll see the difference.

Ed

 

Another:

 

Plenty of side clearance:

 

Outstanding news, Ed! One more question though...I know my GTA has two different offset crosslace rims (one size for the back, and another for the front). Did you test a front wheel? Do you think it would make any difference?

Still on the fence deciding which upgrade to go with...

 

I rember reading about someone selling the C4 brakes as a kit with spindles, hub etc.. Does anyone know if they are still being sold?

Thanks,
R

 

That would be Ed's kit. Go to his site to see pics.

 

I tested the front wheel and the back of the rim listed a ZERO offset. It says " OFF 0", so I can only assume this is what it is. Even though the rear may have a different offset, they are cast the same and will still work with the C4s.

Ed

 

Hey Ed your site isn't currently working.

Also can you shoot me an email again? I moved and didn't check my email for about a month and AOL deleted out the email correspondence we had going. I want to pick up the front set and rear 1le setup for my camaro sometime between now and mid march. Thanks

James

 

Hmm...shouldn't be a problem with the link...try it again. Also, my e-mail is in my profile, but it's ebmiller88@aol.com


Ed

 

Hey guys - I was just re-reading the LONG original C4 brake thread for the second time and I came across something that I thought I should ask. There was a post or two discussing the differences between the 10.5" hub/rotor and the 1LE hub/rotor in that the 1LE rotor pushes the wheel mounting surface outward about 1/2" more than the 10.5" rotor for caliper clearance reasons. Just to confirm, is this correct?

Second, I wonder if the 1LE rotor and the Baer rotor or hub or whatever it is (in the Baer kit that was used as a comparison in the original thread) are similar with regards to how far they displace the wheel outwards?? Are these dimensions similar?

I'm asking because there were originally some concerns about the calper-to-spindle bracket thickness being too thin and the thought came to me, why not use a replacement 1LE rotor to turn into a hub for the C4 brake hat. You would use the front C4 rotor having a slightly greater offset rather than the rear and you "should" (if my logic is correct, that is) be able to make the caliper-to-spindle bracket out of thicker material. Does this sound like it makes any sense??

I just thought of this because I recall seeing 1LE rotors on Ebay a while back and I'm sure you can still get replacement 1LE rotors at the parts stores - maybe they cost a lot to just turn them into a hub, that I don't know.

Please, let me know what you think - just want to know if my logic makes sense or if I'm missing something. Also, if this does sound reasonable, let me know if everything else should be the same, aside from a thicker caliper-to-spindle bracket.

K

EDIT - Maybe this is not even necessary - that should be a consideration too I guess.......Let me know....... C-ya!!

 

why not just use 1le rotors as they are?? won't that work too?

 

I don't think they'll work with the C4 calipers because they are too thick - the C4 rotors are thinner than the 1LE rotors. That makes them kind of caliper-specific even though they are a similar diameter.

 

Interesting about using 1LE rotors for hubs. That's a good idea, and one I'll try. I just may get those Grand Sport brakes to fit yet. The only concern I have is that if the 1LE rotors push the wheels out a bit, when you throw the rotor on it'll push them out even further, how much I don't yet know, but I'll look into it.

To answer your questions, yes the 1LE rotor is supposed to push the wheel out a bit. I'll find that out. Second, I have never seen a Baer hub up close so I haven't compared it to one of our modified hubs yet. Your logic is fine, but I don't see your concern with using an even thicker bracket. I use 3/8" thick brackets on my C4 and LS1 setups and that's PLENTY of bracket...any more would be overkill. I still think 1/4" steel would do fine but the 3/8" just fits better.

Ed