nolanr0413

Does anyone have the wilwood 13" inch brake kit. The stock brakes on my car suck and i hope when i get the wilwood brakes it will help out.
I just want to hear if anyone has them and what their experiences are . I really want them bc they will match the rear discs when i buy them , bc i have to buy wilwood rear discs bc of the chrysler rear end.

Motor City Mike

I don't believe Wilwood makes a 13" brake kit for our cars. I did convert their 10.5" front brake kit into a 12 3/16" kit, using all their parts - I only had to fab up some new caliper brackets. By the time I sold the 10.5" rotors and adapters, my total cost was about $700. Due to all the light weight components, it is more intended for a drag type set-up though.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

He's talking about this one from Spohn:

http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1147

Ed

iroc-si

Yes I have this wilwood calipered 13" kit from spohn. Its on the car, but I've not driven it yet.

The kit does seem good but I do have a few issues with it. What I got was the cross drilled and slotted version.

The quality of the rotor casting is very poor. The thickness of the rotor does seem constant but the inner and outer wall thickness does vary from 6.5mm (1/4" ) to 9mm (3/8"). This looks very odd when the rotor rotates and the air gap moves side to side. Also there are a few excess lumps of material in the airgap. and slight chips in the edge of the airgap. These should not cause too much trouble and probably doesn't affect the balance too much.

Also because of the rotor quality issues the cross drilling didn't get all the way through and I had to drill out about half of the holes. There were also some minor dents in the surface of one of the rotors. Also against what some folks are saying about slotted rotors the slots go off the edge of the rotor.

As for the calipers they look great! Unlike porsche designs they protect the oil pipe between sides so that trapped stones won't be able to puncture the pipe. The only down side of those calipers is the poor choice of a 1/8 NPT
fitting from the pipe. This should have been a banjo fitting.

All in all I would say its a good kit, certainly for the money. BUT I would not get the drilled/slotted rotors as they are poor. The biggest reason I had for getting this particular kit is that they fit under iroc 16" wheels (not gta 16" though).

Hope the above hasn't scared you off....

Si.

nolanr0413

do you know how much new rotors cost and if you could buy better rotors down the road. I really want the cross drilled ones bc they look better but i dont like how the slots go off the rotor.

iroc-si

Don't know. suspect that they are one source parts, but haven't looked into it. I'm sure that for what I'm going to use them for they should be okay for a few years. But if I start taking the car to the racing circuit too much then they may be destroyed quickly. If you're not going racing (not drag racing but road racing) then they should be fine.

Si.

JPrevost

Don't get me wrong, I like Spohn a LOT, awesome stuff, but that brake kit is expensive. He's asking too much for it. To put it into perspective, the parts he's selling don't even come up to $700, so where is the added expense? Research? Bah, a thirdgen member did it and sold the info.
I'm doing the exact same kit as he has only for about $1000 less.
Behrents.com $250 for the wilwood forged superlite calipers, $60 for pads, $75 for custom brake lines, $20 for wheel bearings, $20 for adaptor brackets (that's what it's costing me).
I REALLY don't like undermining Steve but I just can't afford that kit, expecially since his initial cost doesn't include any of the spindle modifications, etc. I'll give him one thing though, he obviously has new wheel studs and does the rotor to hub machine work, that's gotta be worth something, but a grand.... that's one hell of a markup. I guess all of the kits are like that if you think about it.

iroc-si

and then you can add the other bits....hubs etc!

What this kit provides is EVERYTHING!!!! buy it fit it, yeah! your done..... One particular thing with with this kit is that it is the only 13" kit that fits an iroc wheel. and it only just fits. yeah sure go off and do your own, but don't expect it to just work at 13" in an iroc wheel at the first pass.

you pay for what you get.

Si.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Wrong...the 13" C4 HDs fit also, I know because I have them installed. Make sure you know what you're talking about....



Ed

Dewey316

They have to make a profit also. Most company's aren't in the buisness of charity.

And compare that kit to similare kits for other cars. You are getting a lot of brake for significatly less money than similar kits for other cars.

To get a comprable kit from baer, it is $1000 more than that kit.

MrDude_1

the 13" C4HD rotors not only fit... but they're available everywhere. cheaper then stock 3rdgen rotors even.

and you can buy quality drilled/slotted ones if you wish.... the spohn ones are single source.

Dewey316

Not entirely. I'm not going to say much more, but you can measure the rotors, and get replacements.

MrDude_1

obviously you can measure and order a rotor of similar size to replace it.


but anyone spending this kind of cash probly doesnt want to measure anything and just wants to buy the "right" part.

Dewey316

the "right" part is out there, I am just not going to go behind Spohns back and devulge that info.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Yep, they're out there, just have to know which part to buy.


Ed

nolanr0413

i really want to get the 13inch brake kit from wilwood since they are 4 piston calipers and they will match my rear wilwwood brakes when i get them . I just wish it was easy to get the rotors and pads, where the hell do you buy them when you need another set .

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Then it looks like you'll need to buy the Spohn kit or just start piecing it together yourself.

Ed

iroc-si

Sorry didn't quite see the link to the off the shelf kit that provided the full C4 HDs kit there Ed.....?????? if you want to be useful them provide info not just offense!

Sure you can take almost anything and fit it under and iroc wheel, but if you want an off the shelf kit that doesn't require much in the way of custom/research then it is hard to get a genuine 13" kit. some that purvey themsleves as 13" are actually a bit less than 13"..... lets just be honest guys. maybe it make no difference but why not be honest. And yes I'm no expert but don't dis me with nothing.


Si.

JPrevost

So let me get this straight, if I design my brackets then I can sell the brackets and calipers, and rotors as a kit for a scary amount of money? I guess I won't have the "Spohn" title but you can bet the parts will be exactly the same. Don't you love the USA, undercut a buisness and people get mad at you for being more efficient .
Just a heads up, one of my calipers is on backorder and behrents.com sent me dynalite pads , so now they're telling me they don't have a part number for "Q" type polymatrix pads for superlites.... that's BS, the part number is 15Q-6829K.... SO my kit is taking a little longer than I thought. The good news is that my c5 rotors are here and so it's time to check my bracket dimensions with the one caliper they sent me.
I'm expecting this DIY kit to only put me back $500. If I were to do an EXACT Spohn kit it would cost me $700 having to pay for new rotors and the machine work to cut them down into hubs and new studs and new bearings. For me, I've got a set of used rotors that'll get me through the winter when I can replace the hubs with all new hardware. My bearings are only 2 years old so I'd like to use them for a while longer.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

No offense intended there big guy, I just typed it wrong. What I meant to say was "Make sure you know what you're talking about before you use the phrase 'Only kit that fits....' " But you haven't been paying attention on the boards either..there are complete 13" HD kits available and this link is proof:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=253883

And, yes, they're a full 13" in diameter and not even half of $1500 in cost.

No "Dis" intended there....Bro, so relax...

Ed

iroc-si

JPrevost: Yes mate welcome to the world..... if you can make some thing for so much less than everyone else then you will make some money. woohoo

yeah whatever. go for it if you think you can do better, I'm all for it. but please don't screw your customer's because you forgot something.

While I question the quality of the rotors in the spohn/alloy kit what I do not question is the FACT that it is a complete kit. If you wish to spend time working out what would be required to replcate/better this kit then sure hit the search button, and do the work. Personally I'd prefer to spend a slight amount more for somebody else to do that work once rather than replacate work that has been done before just to save a few bucks.

Si.

ps. Do the full sums on what you would need to do the full job if you're going to compare your prices with this kit. This is not a half arsed kit but the full deal.

Si.

iroc-si

I've used the search and not quite found these full kits you mention. Any chance you could link to somebody that sells the full kit to convert a standard camaro front to these C4HDs.

And perhaps what I should have said was the only 13" 4 pot + system kit that will fit iroc wheels? or am I wrong????

Cheers,

Si.

JPrevost

Yes, my prices include everything and then some (wheel dust caps ). Here's the run down piece by piece and quoted from my local machine shop;

Brake upgrade/rebuild Total: $697.10
Front rotors 2 $26.00 $52.00 Napa
Calipers 2 $124.95 $249.90 Wilwood
Pads 1 $55.00 $55.00 Wilwood
Brackets 2 $10.00 $20.00 Local shop
Hubs 2 $59.99 $119.98 Brembo brand new
Studs (pack of 5) 2 $9.00 $18.00 ARP
Brake line 1 $75.60 $75.60 Orme brothers (does all of Wilwoods kits)
Inner bearing 2 $9.08 $18.16 BCA/NATIONAL
Outer bearing 2 $9.98 $19.96 BCA/NATIONAL
Seal inner 2 $1.56 $3.12 NATIONAL
Spindle nut and cotter pin kit 2 $5.08 $10.16 DORMAN-CRD
Wheel dust cover 2 $2.61 $5.22 DORMAN-CRD
Bracket hardware Grade 8 2 $5.00 $10.00 Metro Industries
Machine work Brackets 1 $20 $20.00 Local shop
Machine work Hubs 1 $20 $20.00 Local shop

p.s.~ I've got the Timken bearing and seal part numbers, I'll probably use them so expect the price to tip over $700 for EVERYTHING BRAND NEW!
So selling the kit for "a little" more isn't what I'd call Spohns kit, but to each is own. I just feel $900 is a bit on the high side but maybe that's what it costs him to machine the hubs, I don't know. Oh yeah, his initial cost doesn't come with spindles, neither does my kit, and it doesn't come with cross drilled slotted rotors like the picture shows. I can do the same thing, lol. I think when I'm done I'm going to sell this kit I made, figure it'll put a little back in my pocket. I'll probably sell it for around $1000 for everything and I can adjust the price depending on the persons request for say "D" or "T" compound polymatrix pads, slotted rotors, include a master cylinder, maybe even rear brakes (I have my own kit planned out).
Now for a little history behind me, I'm not your average Joe, I've got a lot of experience with custom fabrication and an ME degree. I'm also a member of SAE (society of automotive engineers). If you trust me then , if not, then by all means get the Spohn or Baer, or Edmiller C4 kits, they're ALL GOOD.:lala:

vsixtoy

Prevost, make sure you run the "T" pads on the street, anything else will make a sh*t load of low speed moaning. You also will need the "T" pads for rotor break-in regardless of what pad you ultimately decide on.

JPrevost

I was leaning towards the Q pads. They're the ceramic ultra low noise pads. The T-pads were also on my list to get along with some D's.

vsixtoy

D-coumpound must be new because I've never heard of it. The have a new d44 style, but thats a pad configuration, not compound.

I'm speaking from experience when I tell you that you'll have some very unhappy customers if you don't package the "t" pads with your setup, unless you want complaints about warped rotors on break-in and moaning noises.

"T" pads are pefect for street use, use don't need any higher friction levels than Wilwoods baseline pad on the street.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Those are good prices on machine work, I wouldn't expect them to be that low, especially with the price of steel so high. I consider you lucky!

Ed

JPrevost

I am very lucky. I know a lot of people . I'm finding out that my current aftermarket 16x8 centerlines (3-piece) won't fit with the c5 rotors, this stinks but was expected. I just need to get a hold of some stock 91-92 wheels and test fit it.
Spohn/Alloy's kit use TRUE 13" rotors but are only 1.1" thick, this might hurt the cooling a bit but they'll last just as long and I bet decrease the chances of warping (webbing is shorter with a lower shorter moment arm). From looking at the wilwood calipers the difference between 1.1" and 1.25" rotors makes no difference in wheel clearance, it's all about the room between the caliper and the wheel (the rotor offset)! This is where I'm having problems so things are on a delay until I can get some wheels to test fit. The good news is that they fit larger wheels , just not my wheels .

CrazyHawaiian

Sign me up JP. hehehe