In your opinion and please state why ;

Best brake upgrade that will fit inside the factory 16" GTA style
wheels ? THANKS,

Bill E.

 

i think the ls1's are the best bet . I think , and i think that the c4 hds wont fit .

 

i love my ls1s. i think 1les will fit too. with the gtas, youll have to run a small spacer in the front. i used the stock one off the back of my car

 

C4HD. 13"x1.1" rotors and pretty strong calipers (are they dual piston? I don't remember). I may have found a really good deal on these pending condition he says they are in and will get the rest of the parts from Ed

 

Dont think the HD's will fit under the stock GTA rim.


Im doing the LS1 frt conversion now and its not that bad too do at all. Definitely wirth the $$$$$$$$$$$$ to me. Just going to need the spacer the GTA rimmed, drum brake equipped cars came with :-)

later
JEremy

 

My car had no such spacers and it was a GTA wheel, drum-braked car

 

Someone probably lost them before you bought the car. It is around 16 years old

I was tempted to keep those SS wheels and go with C4 HDs as well, but I'm going to stick to LS1s when it's time to upgrade. I love the GTA wheels too much to do anything else

Glad someone is putting C4 HDs under those SS wheels. That'll look sick with C4 HDs in front and LS1 brakes in the rear. I'll definately have to come check out the car in the summer.

I just have to wait a little while before I upgrade though. I only have ~350 miles on brand new brakes up front. Everything was trashed when I first bought the car and didn't have enough money to upgrade at the time

 

Eek...I'm not going to be riding on 17s all year long. This could be trouble I thought the C4HDs would fit under a 16" rim. Guess I'll have to read around a bit more.

My front brakes are fairly new too. I have a record of mileage/dates of everything I've done to the car, but I don't feel like looking it up right now. I think my calipers, pads, and rotors only have like ~4k miles on them right now. The rotors were cheap though. So far though, they haven't cracked, and I spent $102 (including $22 shipping) for the pair of cross-drilled and slotted rotors

 

*whew* Thought I'd remembered reading that somewhere. That's why I was so into the C4HD upgrade

 

nape, aren't you the same guy on the other LS1 Brake thread that is indicating that 3rd gen. Fbodies "don't really need brakes as big(as 4th Gen)."????

 

Check which ones will fit Dean. I think only IROC, RS, and possibly Formula wheels fit over the C4 HDs. I could be wrong on that though. Almost positive GTAs don't clear.

For the street and the occasional track day/Auto-X, IMO no, but that's a debateable statement. If you're going to open track/Auto-X the car, bigger brakes are definately advantageous because you'll have more material to dissapate the heat/heat sink. On the other hand, you also have to remember that bigger brakes are going to increase the unsprung and rotational weight [using stock components]. There are pros and cons to any setup you use depending on what your main use for them will be.

You can only use so much brake on the street, think about the size of tire you're using and how much grip it will have on the street. I'm sure the C4 HDs work excellant [and I know they look bitchin'], but I'm not willing to give up GTA wheels to use them

I'm not trying to sway anyone from using C4 HDs, just putting out my opinion. And we all know opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.

Having said that, as soon as I can grab a garage spot for a couple days in a row, I'll have some LS1s on order with Ed

 

Not bad. I don't think I agree that the street use and occ. track/auto cross, don't need upgraded brakes. But thats ok. I think this upgrade makes the cars SAFER. I'll give you credit for backing up your statement. Well done.

 

My current brakes suck; not quite sure why. I've bled the lines and master cylinder a few times already. I could go get a reman MC, but then it won't be aluminum like the one I have is So for me, I'm hoping for it to be a safety thing. I feel like I'm not stopping as quickly as I should be sometimes. Its actually hard/impossible to lock up my brakes..

And yes, the C4HDs won't fit behind GTA rims, you're right. IROC rims and the like should fit, so I'm hoping my 16x8 saladshooters should fit as well. I would assume so since I have to use a 2" spacer for the wheels anyways, so there shouldn't be any clearance issues.

I agree 100% though that they will look killer behind the 10-spokes

 

Sorry if it came across like I was saying they didn't need bigger brakes then the stock 10.5 inchers, they absolutely do. In the other thread I meant to make the reference about 3rd gen vs. 4th gen brake upgrades. 3rd genners should be ok with a 12" upgraded brake while 4th gens should be on an equal plane with a C5 12.75" based on weight. I just think that LS1 brakes are a more practical setup for a non-track 3rd gen.

If I were going with a track car [and I've thought about putting an AI car together], I'd probably run C4 HDs for the fact that I could run 16" wheels to keep the tire bill down while I was cutting my teeth/to keep initial investment down.

I would argue about diminishing returns going from LS1s to C4 HDs for a street car as far as value goes, but they're priced very competitively from Ed so it basically boils down to what best suits your needs.

 

Even if you weren't running the spacer, they will fit. Salad shooters bolt onto '98-'02s just fine.

 

i hated my stock brakes, thing stopped like a train. i used to have an intrepid, and that thing stopped better then my car did. i agree with nape, ls1s are the ultimate street setup. theres so many of them, so theyre a cheap upgrade

 

Stock 3rd gen brakes are downright scarey.

 

I know the LS1 brakes would clear...the C4HD's are a bit bigger though I had thought. I suppose I always could go LS1 front brakes, but I figure for a few extra dollars, I can go to a 13x1.1" rotor. I know the LS1 guys complain about warping rotors quite a bit.

Agreed that stock brakes are scary I have an adjustable proportioning valve that I very well may use once I get my new brake setup on. I bought it thinking I'd need it for the LS1 rears but they seem to be okay. Then again, I suppose I could plumb it in just to have the adjustability now. Maybe part of my stopping reason is because of the rear brakes not getting the pressure. When I first started driving the car, it had felt like it was braking better than it had stock...but I hadn't driven the car for 3-4 weeks (blew the rear-end and was looking and looking for a 4th gen rear at a decent price close by).

Either way, the LS1 brakes would be very good upgrades for our cars. As I said, I figure for the few extra dollars though, the C4HD setup is worth it. Not only that, but the C4HD's, being 13" rotors, will fill up my 17" open 10-spoke rims a bit better as well as the 1.1" thick rotor being more resistant to warping.

I've considered the C5 brakes, but I don't want to be forced to run 17" rims all year round. My winter tires/rims are 16" and I don't want to have to buy another set of 17"

 

For the price of 17" rims you could buy a beater for the winter, and most likely save money on insurance when you switch the plates.

 

Hi guys...haven't been checking the boards much due to the Holidays.

"Best" brake upgrade is debatable. For the easiest install behind GTA wheels it's the 12" C4s or the 1LEs as they're pretty close to stock and fit with minimal modifications. Mongoose has the 12" C4s right now, I used to on my RS before the HDs, and they work great. The LS1s do fit also but you'll need the "drum rear" spacer between the wheel and the rotor. Steve Kerr (IIRC) has my LS1s and GTA wheels. The C4 HDs won't fit, too big, as are the C5s. 12" is pretty much ias big as you can go behind those wheels. I don't think the 1LEs will make you use a spacer, I think you'd be fine without one.

Having said that, it's standard knowledge to stick the biggest brakes you can behind the wheels you want to run. IN that case, go with the LS1s for those wheels. It's just that those brakes must fit so damn tight to the brackets and spindles that it will take a lot of time getting it just right, at least I put a LOT of time making sure nothing rubs anywhere.

Ed

 

I know they might not be the cheapest, but Baer brakes work. I installed the 12" rotors w/caliper on my GTA with stock rims before I got my new rims. They fit fine. Cheaper to go other routes but the Baer kit was easy to install.

 

I think that's the same as the C4 12" kit that Ed puts together.

 

what about doing the ls1 brakes and then using the c5 vette calipers. The calipers were about 90 bucks each from gmpartsdirect. Then you wouldnt have to paint the ls1 brakes .

 

Ed,
If the LS1 gave you problems, I can imagine they would be a pain on the GTA wheels. After pricing around you do indeed have a much better deal on your c4 as opposed to the 1LE conversion prices I have seen. Do you know if your kit will still clear the factory spare ? I doubt that will ever be needed but just in case ?
Please email me some prices and kit info, I got some info from you a while back about c4hd b4 I knew they would not fit. Thanks,

Also does the LS1 and 1le and c4 all push the wheel outboard about 1/2 inch ? How does that look, anybody know ?

Bill E.

 

LS1s don't really give me problems anymore, it's just that they take longer to get to fit right with no interference. The old saying is "Time=Money", both of which I'd like more of...

The LS1s fit GTA wheels fine using the "drum rear" spacer, no issues whatsoever. The 12" C4s will clear the factory REAL 1LE spare and the 16" steel spare, maybe not the 15" spares and not the RPO N64 spoked aluminum spare either, the one that everyone mistakenly calls the "1LE" spare. They should since they will fit inside 15" wheels but I haven't tested the spares, I have AAA..

All of these kits will push the front wheels out about 3/8" per side, the HDs push them out about 5/8" per side due to the added offset of the HDs hub. It's not a problem if your front tires are 245 or so, I'd think the 255s will rub up front, assuming you also keep the front wheel installed. Should you run rear wheels on the front which give you another 1/2" of backspacing, all the added offset of these style kits goes back to nothing.


I sent you e-mail, Bill...


Ed

 

Anybody running 12 c4's, how noticable is this 1/2 to 5/8 inch outboard push of the wheels ? Good idea with the rear wheels,
are the rear the ones they still make , GTA that is ? Year One ?

 

You know by todays standards you are right on... but... I can tell you of more than a few hairy moments in my buds 67 Chevy 2 SS with a wicked 327 and believe it or not 8" non power assisted front drum brakes..... It makes my hair stand up on me neck just trying to remember. The first time i drove a four wheel disc 83 Trans Am I thought it was built by the Gods of handling and braking cause it was light years ahead of any other real American car of that time. Hehe we are all spoiled nowadays eh?

As far as opinion on which swap the 1LE brakes work sweet but just to rub it in the C5's are definitely better but only really noticeable at higher speeds. Braided flex lines and high temp fresh fluid make a big difference too. Good luck eh!

 

Nope, I've got a '96 Beretta for a daily driver and it makes me want to say a prayer everytime I need to slow down. My mom's '94 Buick Century has the same brakes and it's got 65k miles on it on the factory rear shoes and they still have over half life left.

The brake bias is complete crap.

Anyway, to sum it up, GM makes crappy braking systems

 

Hey Jetmeck, my car is the one Ed referred to in his first post on this thread. I'm currently running GTA wheels with the C4 12" kit. I'm using the front wheels on the rear and the rears up front. I'm also using a 1/4" spacer to make up the backspacing difference to bring the front track width back to spec. I posted this some time back along with the math to show that it does work. As for keeping the fronts up front the push out actually helps fill up the wheel well. I was running Formula wheels when the C4s were installed and it looked great. Whenever I can locate another pair of front GTA wheels(the dimpled style) I'll put them on and ditch the spacers. I just went with the rears and spacers up front as it was easier at the time with a matched set of GTA wheels. I was running front Formula wheels all around previously.

 

Thanks for the reply, tell me about those brakes ?
Secondly you are saying run fronts all the way around to fill the fenderwell. Any rub problems on the rear with stock tire size ?
Used to be able to get GTA wheels from a source I cannot rememebr but they only had the front or was it the rears ?

I was going to go rears all the way around like Ed suggested but if your idea would work I like it better ?????

It also depends on availability as the wheels I have are on a '89 9,000 mile near perfect car and something close to new shape is all I would put on it.

 

The C4s were added after I swapped in a 9 bolt with PBR brakes and really make for a great combination. Right now I don't have fronts all around but I would like to. Just need a pair of GTAs for the front(later years) and that should do it. I've never had any problems with the fronts rubbing when used on the rear and my car is lowered with Sportline springs. As for using rears all around it can be done as long as you had the C4s and the right width spacer up front.

 

OK, here's a few pics I took this afternoon of my RS with the 13" C4 HDs installed. This will give you some idea of where the wheels will sit with this style of brake kit installed, although the 12" C4s will sit a bit inside of where these do, .318" less per side due to the difference in hub offsets. I have the stock 16" wheels, 245/50-16 Kuhmo 712s, front wheels on front, rears on rear:


Ed

 

Another:

 

Last one:

 

Bill, sent you mail..

Ed