Hey guys,

My 89 Trans Am came with drums in the back, and it just does not stop very well at all. The pedal feels mushy and has long travel, and the front brakes just don't seem to work well. In a panic stop, the car does not slow down nearly as fast as it should. I am thinking about replacing all the front brake components (rotors, lines, calipers, pads) and was wondering if there is anyway to upgrade or switch to better brakes without spending too much money. With a budget of about 300 bucks, what would you do? Thanks!

 

 

just get better pads, bleed the brakes, usually that helps a lot for under $60

 

Quality replacement rotors, ceramic pads (I like Hawk Performance Ceramics), and a whole system flush (new fluid squirting out of the bleeders) is what I would do.

 

Dont forget...Earls Stainless Steel Braided brake lines will help a lot too and are around the $100 range.

 

yea, definitely get the Earls SS braided hoses, tehy make the pedal feel so much firmer, and you will never ever have to replace rubber brake hoses ever again

 

Do those SS hose's really make that big of a change in pedal feel compared to Brand New OEM hoses?

 

I would like to know as well.

 

well i don't know about the earls lines but, i have *performancy* stainless braided hoses i added in place of my old completely wornout (showing the braided nylon hose and cracked rubber everywhere) hoses and still noticed no difference whatsover in pedal feel. My opinion is get rubber the stainless isn't worth the extra cash.

As for brakes i bought new bendix rotors, new calipers, and a carquest ceramic pads and my brakes are still terrible. From 55mph or lower stops they are adequate but, anything higher and they are rediculous and highly unpredictable, can't barely ever lock the fronts doesn't matter how hard i push and the pads fade in and out very inconsistently. My own opinion is the stock brake setup is just far from adequate, it needs a lot more clamping force and more rotor to grab on to.

The only real difference i noticed so far in braking is readjusting the rear drums. Btw my own opinion is semi metallic pads tend to clamp better than ceramic if you're willing to deal with the brake dust...

I've saw wilwood 4 piston brake setups for our cars on ebay for 600$ new and it sounds like a steel for what you get but, i just don't have the dough to dish out with a motor that's getting older by the day and the need of lots of general maintnence.

 

Start with just some good maintenence. Replace the front rotors or have them turned. Since mass holds heat which stops your car it is better to buy new rotors than have them turned, but if they are still pretty thick you could have them turned a bit. Blead the brakes, I recomend putting in some high temp fluid.

Buy some hi-po pads. What you get depends on how you plan on driving. You didn't mention track use so I wouldn't expect high temps. So Carbon metalics from the parts store will be good or a set of Hawk HPS (high performance street) pads. If you are going to the track get a set of Carbotech pads. If you call them they will ask some questions and pick a compound for you. Pads will make the biggest difference in stoping force (assuming everything else is in working condition).

Don't waste your money on the braided lines. The braded lines won't make a difference for your basic brake set-up. They aren't exactly a good idea for someone who drives on the street and puts on alot of miles. They need to be checked frequently for leaks since they don't have the rubber liner. The rubber lines will last longer but might flex a bit more.

Take off your rear drums and check the shoe thickness, and check the adjustment. Check the cylinder for leaks. If everything seems ok then bleed and put them back together. If not replace shoes and or rebuild the cylinder.

It sounds like your problems are more just maintence related. Before I put on my C5 set-up my car stopped good until they got hot. I got the C5 because of the heat associated with track days. Bigger rotors will hold more heat.

 

stainless steel braided lines do help firm up the pedal if your brake system is in good well kept condition. i noticed a big difference on my iroc just from doing the lines. i also have a crotch rocket that i did ss braided lines and noticed a big difference. like said earlier in the post, flush the old brake fluid and new rotors, better pads, and ss lines if you like. but if you want extreme stopping look at up grading to bigger set ups, if you have tools and know how to use them there are many sets that you can make work on our cars, and there are some guys who can make a bolt on kit for you for pretty cheap. i recently got a c5/zo6 front kit from someone and to have the same stuff from the zo6 was i think 750 from him, and all i had to do was just swap spindles on the car. i went with better pads, and cross drilled and slotted rotors. it was 950 i think. there are plenty of guys on here who know what they are talking about.

 

I upgraded to rototech cross drilled rotors ($140 at jegs) and a set of Hawks performance pads ($47 at jegs) did this and the hoses up front (with oem's) and noticed a good difference (they were already pretty good before hand). It's all about the bleed man. Had a '79 Ford Fairmont that wouldn't stop worth a damn, replaced a few parts and bled them multiple times to make sure I got all the old **** out. Thing would stop a freight train on a dime.

 

Well I spent about 200 dollars and bought new rotors, new pads (Bendix Titaniums), new calipers, and new front hoses. I put everything on and gravity bled all 4 brakes until I got all the old fluid out. Then I bled each brake individually (10-12 times) with a friend working the bleeder while I pumped and held the pedal.

As soon as I turned the car on and felt the pedal I knew it wasn't right. The pedal still had that mushy feel to it. Basically, it feels like the pedal is not doing anything for the first inch or so of travel, and then it just feels mushy, and there's no point where the pedal firms up and becomes hard.

Also, I noticed now that when I push the pedal down, it seems like it takes a little too long to return to its normal position - like it slowly comes back up after releasing it.

I took the car out for a drive and although I didn't try a really hard stop, I can tell the brakes aren't any better. When I'm sitting at a stop, I have to hold the pedal down very close to the floor, and it doesnt take much more pressure to put it all the way down on the floor.

I'm pretty upset that the new parts didn't make a difference - Do you guys have any suggestions?

 

You have something wrong. Air is my guess. You bled the rear also?

 

You may need to replace the master cylinder. My car was doing the exact same thing, were you have to push the pedal close to the floor to hold the car. my

 

Maybe try to remove the Master Cylinder and bench bleed it??? You arent hearing a hissing or anything when you push the pedal, are you??

 

I second the master cylinder. I had mine replaced about 7,000 miles ago, and the brake pedal mush went away.

Unfortunately, I pushed the brakes a little to hard one night (about 4 weeks after the MC job) and I think I cooked the brake fluid a little bit. Now there is a little mush, but nothing as compared to the spongy mushy mess that they were before the master cylinder replacement.

I really don't believe in "upgrading" a brake system while there is 15 to 20 something yr old parts in there that need replacement.

 

Guess that'll be the next thing I do - it will be awhile before I have the chance, (at school) but I'll post results when I put a new one in. Thanks for the help.

Chris

 

Dude, seriously, I'm not trying to sound like an *** or anything, but...

I had a best friend in high school die because of his brakes...

If your driving that car everyday, MAKE the time to do that, this weekend if possible and borrow the money if you have to...

It's NOT worth waiting... cuz you could possibly take someone else's life also...

just my

 

Dude, seriously, I'm at school and not using the car and it will be awhile before I'm home to fix it - I'm not an idiot.

sorry about your friend

 

My bad on freakin out... I'm sure your not an idiot, dude... but you'd be surprised how many people actually drive around like that.

about your problem...

if the lines have ever been removed at the master cylinder, or the master cylinder was ever drained of fluid completely (maybe during bleeding the wheels, who knows what someone b4 you did)... then there may be air in the master cylinder and all the bleeding in the world at the wheels will not get that out. you would have to disconnect the lines at the M.C. and bleed it seperate from the system...

 

Sorry about that - was in a bad mood when I wrote it. Good point about not waiting, and I didn't make it clear that I'm not using the car except when I go home.

I guess my plan is to just get a remanufactured master cylinder at Advance Auto, I think they're around 40 bucks - and bench bleed it, put it in, and bleed the brakes again. Sound good?

Thanks for your help.

Chris

 

You can bleed your master cylinder while it is on the car. The procedure is detailed in your Haynes manual. If you don't have one, get one. Meanwhile, you can check this post: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...onfustion.html

The procedure is cheap (free), all it costs is patience.

 

Well I got a chance to work on the car over Thanksgiving break. I got a remanufactured master cylinder from advance auto, bled it on the bench, and put it in the car, and then bled all four wheels. The brakes definitely feel better, but there are still a couple things wrong.

If I try to stop hard before the brakes are warm, they seem weak, I can't lock the wheels. After a few stops, then the braking seems to be much better, and I can lock them. Do you think this is the pads? I am using the Bendix pads that come with the Titanium coating - I thought they were well liked by people on the board.

The other thing that concerns me more is that the car pulls to the left when braking - sometimes it seems much worse than others, but the left front wheel always locks before the right one. I'm not sure what could be causing this, since I replaced hoses and calipers. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Chris

 

Have you let the pads bed? The Ti's dont take long but i bet they will need a good 50-75mi before they are 100% bedded in.

 

Yeah, they should be bedded by now - I've been driving it all week, since I did the mc as soon as I got home on Saturday, and I had driven it some on the new pads before then.

I drove the car today and was driving for about 10 minutes with only very light braking, and then I tried to stop pretty hard and the brakes felt really weak. But after I stopped hard about 3 times, the car stopped much quicker. What could be causing this?

Still pulling to the left somewhat also

Thanks,
Chris

 

Nobody?

I am really frustrated that I've spent so much money and time doing this and the brakes still aren't right - I just don't understand what would make them work better once I've stopped a couple of times. I did a little searching on the Bendix Titanium pads and everyone else said they stopped great hot or cold.

I guess the only thing that I haven't touched is the combination valve.

 

Have you checked you're brake booster for vacuum leaks? Just a thought.