Short Story: Flexible brake lines are frozen, probably need to be cut, hard lines replaced. Future plans include moser 9" w/ disk brakes. The car already has a 95 LT1, and therefore, PCM in it. With the title, I think you can probably see where this is going, but to spell it out....I figure with the replacing of the hard lines, there is a possibility of needing to bleed the master cylinder. If I am going to remove it, I want to upgrade it, like say to a 4 channel, for a future ABS 4 wheel disk brake setup I hadn't planned on doing any sort of brake upgrade until the new axle, but the bad flex lines have tipped my hand.
So the question, would there be any problem hooking the drums up on their own individual lines? I know I might need some adapters to plum everything up (or maybe not, that would be nice), and I know I would need 2 flexible hose sections for the back.

Obviously the drums won't have reluctor rings, or sensors, so its not like they will ever operate in ABS mode.

Anyhow, thoughts? I hate putting old parts back into the car, and when replacing, I hate putting OE parts in the car Always has to be some sort of upgrade which turns a 1 day project into a multiweek event

Thanks
Corry

 

Im not sure if I follow what you want to do 100% here...

Are you asking if you can split the rear brake circuit into two lines and run them to the back drums? If so...then yeah, I guess you can. I see absolutely no point to it though. You'll just be adding two smaller lines and an extra rubber line to an already proven set up.

What exactly is your problem with the lines now? You have collapsed soft lines? If you are planning on doing a rear axle swap and brake upgrade later, then I say just replace what you have with direct replacement parts and get the car working the way it is. When you upgrade your brakes, then maybe upgrade the lines to what you want. For now...just perform maintenance. The stock soft lines...and hard lines...can be had for pretty cheap.

As to your aspirations for 4 channel ABS. I think you are in for a load of work. There are a couple threads around here that got pretty long. Your basic problems are going to be having tone rings on the front wheels. 4th gens use unit bearings in the spindles which house the tone rings and sensors. You can EASILY add a 4th gen axle and get your rear ABS set up. But the fronts are a different story.

Some of us played with the idea, and I went as far as to have tone rings machined at work. I got S10 hub/rotors that already had an ABS ring, and replaced that ring with mine. It still wasnt the right diameter...therefore the ABS module wouldnt be able to work as it should. Then you are left with trying to "reprogram" the ABS module. That is WAY beyond my, and most peoples, abillity.

Not dissin your idea, or telling you you cant do it. Heck Ide love it if you could. Just figured Ide give you a heads up, so you dont do something now and regret it....like making your brakes 4 channel.

If Im misunderstanding what you wanna do...please let me know! I like talking about brake set ups... So brain storm away. You can probably find the ABS thread if you search under my name. If I find it, Ill post it for ya. Unless you've already seen it...

J.

 

Well, I popped the hood on the GTO and answered some questions, and read about some others.

Here is what I found just in case someone else is in the same position. First off, the master cyl still has only 2 hard lines coming out of it which run to the ABS controller which splits into 4 hard lines. (Probably should have been obvious to anyone familier with ABS....) With an adjustable proportioner, I should be able to drive my old drum brakes until the axle upgrade.

Why? Well, I thought by saying the lines were frozen it would be obvious I meant the connectors from the hard lines to the soft lines. Its probably going to have to be all cut out. These things are frozen something fierce. Good flare wrench just trying to round off the things. Even if I now managed to get them off, I don't want them going back on anything, ever again. So that pretty much means replacing the hard lines. As I said with the upcoming axle swap, I want 4 channel ABS, so if I am going to replace the hard lines now, I might as well run independant lines for each wheel, rather than buy 3 lines, then throw one out, and run two in a few months.

So only one problem left, and I'm not sure anyone on here would have the answer....I would need to know how the brake lines on a moser 9" are run. Are they like the drum brakes, hard lines from the wheels to the drivers side center of the axle, into flex line, then into hard line up to the front? I'll probably have to call up moser. Of course, I could probably make up new lines to do whatever I need, but I'd rather work with whatever they are going to provide. I'm not going to be working on the thing this weekend, and I have to be out of town the next, so I'll call moser sometime in the meantime...

 

Again..not trying to be a naysayer.... But look into how rear drum brakes work. Im not sure you can use JUST an adjustable prop valve on rear drum brakes. They need residual pressure and the combo valve in order to work properly. I THINK....

Actually here is a decent link. This site is basic...but its great for quick info. The stuff under metering valve.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...ter-brake2.htm

As for your moser question, it depends what you are ordering. Are you ordering a drop in replacement for a thirdgen? If so...does it come with brake lines? If so....then they'll probably be in stock configuration.

However, you are talking about running all new hardlines to throughout the car. Running new lines on the axle will be a cake walk compared to the rest of it. So you might want to just wait until you get the axle, then bend everything to fit..... Thats only if the axle doesnt come with prebent lines...and again, that depends what you are ordering.

I still think you are putting the car before the horse by installing 4 separate brake channels ahead of time. Working with brake line is SO easy once you learn how to flare and bend. So its not difficult, or expensive to redo the lines for upgrades. Unless you know of a way to make the abs work...or know of a different abs system that you can retrofit? If so, fill us in because you will have a lot of curious people.

Again...good luck.

J.

 

Hmmm, didn't know that about the drums.....Basically, I hadn't planned on any sort of brake upgrade for a while, until I found these lines frozen togather. I need to do a bunch of research, but here is what I know for a fact. You can get 4th gen style wheel speed sensors on Moser axles. I can find used abs modulators for about $200, and ABS control modules again for about $200. Master cylinder appears to be the same, though it would not be a big deal to pull one from a 4th gen if necessary.

So the unknowns I have about the ABS upgrade would be can I hack out 4th gen front wheel speed sensors, and put them on my thirdgen (by the sensor, I mean all associated hardware, I don't plan on trying to remove the mag pickup, and machine my wheels to accept, etc. That would be a tad on the impractical side).

I also don't know of the ABS Control Module communicates with the PCM, but given I've got an LT1 in my thirdgen, I just have to use WSS, Control Module, and Modulator from a 95-97 car, rather than a 98-02 car. If not, I'll probably just go with parts from the LS1 cars.

Of course the unknowns about the lines on the moser axle still remain.

Fortunatly/Unfortunatly, I found I will have some time to research this as I will be out on business travel the week after next for 2 weeks (spanning 2 and a half weekends). So no time to actually work on the car, not even a lot of time to research, but there will at least be some. When I get more questions answered, I'll post. Of course if someone happens to read this and has some answers, feel free to chime in I'll have lots of overtime pay with which to blow on the car hehehe Of course It does "need" the axle, and legitamatly needs a new wiring harness, optispark (and LS1 coil packs to get the HV out of the optispark...), AIR pump, interior (complete...seriously), doors, front quarter panels, and I think thats about it . I love the car to death though.