TheExaminer

The brakes on my 92 Formula suck in comparison to my 98 Camaro. I understand that in part it's because the 98 has "LS1" brakes with dual calipers on the front, thicker rotors, etc. but I'm a little confused on something I saw on the Azone site. It looks like I've got single caliper brakes on my 92, no wonder they suck! However, Autozone advertises this dual caliper as fitting my vehicle. Short of an LS1 upgrade which I can't afford to do right now, what brake setup on a 92 (before LS1) used the dual piston caliper, and how hard is it to swap over? Are these 1LE calipers? You need new spindles for that don't you?

http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-t...303_2362_9573/

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

http://www.ws6transam.org/1LEbrake.html
You link must have some saved information (cookies)
Or something making it not work. It shows front 92 firebird, dura last . I assume you asking about the dual piston 1le calipers.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Yes.

As Tuned's link points out, the OE spindles require modification. Not a rocket science project.

JamesC

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Those are the "1LE" calipers. Won't fit your car.

You need different spindles, hubs, rotors, (2 pcs in that setup as opposed to 1 pc in the Delco brakes) and the "abutment" brackets.

Cost to install those is about the same as a LS1 setup. OTOH, the LS1 setup is just more brakes period, and even more importantly, will remain easier to maintain farther into the future, due to the sheer difference in volume that exist in the world. As in, a few thousand AT MOST of the 1LE 25 yrs ago, vs a hundred thousand AT LEAST of the LS1 type 10 yrs more recently. Which someday will make a REAL BIG difference when you are standing at the counter needing a part NOW and it's either in stock or it's special order 2 weeks out.

TheExaminer

Ok, thx for the feedback. I'd rather do LS1 than 1LE, but it looks like I just can't afford to do it right now. I'm used to dealing with the brakes on my Camaro, so LS1 is something that's easy for me to deal with, take apart and etc. I'm not nearly as familiar with the brakes on this 92, and I don't like them. I may just have to deal with it til money builds up more.

TheExaminer

Yes, asking about the dual calipers. That's an interesting link, thx. Is there any link like that that shows a conversion to LS1? I learn better when I can SEE work being done, so pictures and videos are always a help. I'll also check YouTube, probably videos on this over there.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The conversions to LS1 and to 1LE styles are EXACTLY the same, as far as what you need. The rotors, calipers, etc. themselves are different, but the parts you have to change and the work you have to do is exactly the same. Cost is roughly similar, except the LS1, again due to the VOLUME of the installed base, is probably cheeeeeeeper and eeeeeeeezzzzzzier to come up with.

Visit www.bigbrakeupgrade.com and see what they've got on the process.

novaderrik

you need to do the exact same modifications to the spindle to use the 1LE brakes as the LS1 brakes.

the 1Le brakes use a one piece hub/rotor that is based off the 12" Caprice rotor, but with the smaller wheel bolt pattern and wheel center hub diameter. the LS1 brakes use a slip on rotor on top of a hub made out of your current stock rotor.

add up the costs, and the LS1 brakes cost about the same and are just a lot better in every way, with replacement parts being in stock at every parts store in the country since '00s Impalas and Monte Carlos use the exact same rotor and pads and their calipers are physically and functionally inter changeable with the LS1 parts but are made out of cast iron instead of aluminum.

TheExaminer

Oh, no doubt, LS1 is the way to go. Plus, like I said above, I'm very used to handling LS1 hardware because of my 4th gen Camaro. I not as handy with lines, master, and etc. though, which leads to one more question. Seems like having the current hubs and spindles machined would be cheaper than paying $375 per side for pre fabs, right? Assuming you get it done right, which is a big if.... Anyway, is it possible to replace spindles/hubs/calipers/rotors on the front and just bolt in the current hoses and lines? I guess what I'm asking is, can I just replace the hub/spindle/rotor hardware and use stock lines, master and booster? Right now I'd be happy if I could just bolt on an LS1 FRONT set, and deal with the rear later. This would be especially easy for me if I can use the stock lines and hoses. Also, I'm still running 16" GTA's. I know LS1 won't fit under 15's, but would 16's work? Getting new wheels is a 1 or 2k extra expense!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Lines, yes; hoses, no.

Booster, yes. Lines, yes. The MC and prop valve, .... maybe, if you're one of those guys that sets below-average standards and consistently manages not to live up to them. Can you jump off of a 10-story building? Yes. Does that fact that it "can be" done, automatically somehow make it A Good Idea? Whole different question.

Although they might "work", it's highly unlikely that the existing hydraulics would work RIGHT. For all of that to do what it's supposed to, the amount of fluid that the MC moves during some normal movement of the pedal, should be the correct amount to move the pistons in the calipers the right amount to apply the brakes. You can VERY EASILY get into situations where the flow requirements don't match; for example the MC piston is small (which means it moves relatively little fluid per inch of travel) but the caliper pistons are large (require ALOT of fluid to make the pistons move even a little bit), etc. Best not to tempt fate, and instead, use parts that are all designed to work together.

TheExaminer

In other words, you have to swap out the entire brake system basically, except the lines and booster, and swapping the booster would probably be wise. Makes sense, just means it would be harder and more expensive, but it's within my range with some study. Money, money, money--not nough of it-always the issue with these old cars. That one I can't study my way around for now.....

novaderrik

i'm running 4 "rear" GTA's on my car, and they clear the LS1 brakes on all 4 corners with a lot of room radially... i did have to make 3/16" wheel spacers (the beauty of working as a cnc machinist...) for the front calipers to clear the back of the spokes- they just barely hit.

regarding the master cylinder: i was running the stock disc/drum master that GM put in the car when they built it in 1986 for 2 years after doing the front brakes, then swapped in the disc/disc master cylinder onto the stock booster after i put the '02 disc brake rear end in the car... rear brakes didn't do a thing, so i pulled the spring out of the prop valve and put a Wilwood adjustable prop valve in the rear line after the stock valve and it stops pretty freaking amazing now..

TheExaminer

I don't know much about how the prop valve works, although I know it controls bias. That's something I'd have to study out, but that is doable. Wish I had the spindles, I could at least go from there, because assembling the spindle hardware I could do blindfolded. I'll have to look at my 3rd and 4th gens side by side and note all the differences in the prop valve and MC, etc. But thanks for the tip, it's helpful. My biggest issue right now is not study, determination or know how, it's just money. Don't have the money to do it right now!

backyardwrench

Check out Engineered Components Inc. A friend just ordered disk brake conversion for a Chevy front end on a 1933 Ford pickup. Spindle adapters and a few other parts for $125.
Btw, the kit he is getting uses Camaro 11" brake setup.

TheExaminer

Ok, I'll check it out. Thx.....

TheExaminer

Looks like it's all made for old cars and trucks, nothing on there about thirdgens.

novaderrik

just noticed that you asked about the brake lines: i bought new stock replacement front brake hoses for my 86 Camaro when i swapped on the LS1 front brakes and it hooked right up like it was meant there.. the only fabrication in the whole swap was cutting and tapping the spindles, cutting down rotors into hubs, and making the mounting brackets.. i worked at a machine shop and did the spindles on a Bridgeport and the hubs on a lathe, but it could all be done at home with simple tools with only a little finishing work on the hubs required on a lathe if you really wanted to..

TheExaminer

Yip, cutting and tapping was what I figured. It's not impossible for me, I'd just have to study it out. Don't have any machine shop experience, but I go to church with a guy who's worked in one for over 20 years. There's a good link I've saved that shows where to cut and etc. Most things I read said the stock hoses would work, some say they won't. I'm just now replacing my front hoses anyway, noticed they were starting to crack. My lines look like they're in pretty good shape, no obvious problems.

backyardwrench

Try calling them. My friend wasn't to sure what all he needed, and he's not computer friendly, called them and the person asked what he was looking to do and hooked him up. My friend was very happy with the service he got over the phone.

TheExaminer

Ok, will do on Monday, thx! If that doesn't work out, I had another quick idea I thought I'd run by the forum. Reman calipers for this thing are only $17.99 at the Zone. How much do you think I'd gain by doing a full system flush and putting on new front calipers? It would be less than $50, and might give me a little improvement til I can afford an upgrade. What do you think? I've gotta get in there to put my new hoses on, and was going to pull the calipers to give them a once over, clean and paint them anyway. Plus, I noticed the mounting pins and those stupid recessed bolt heads look pretty old and not too far from being stripped. I was thinking I may as well put new ones on if I can't afford the upgrade yet?

TheExaminer

Ok, one more thing. I guess part of why I was worried about the spindles was I didn't know how easy the mod is. Am I over simplifying? The stock spindle looks like THIS. you just cut off the caliper mounts and re-tap the backing plate mounting holes to mount your new caliper bracket. Correct? That would be easy to do, and would save me hundreds. I could take them to a machine shop to have them smoothed off and tapped after I did the cut off.

backyardwrench

Check out the site first. You might find an upgrade for about the same money. Its always worth a try.
The flush and calipers could possibly help a little. You might even think about working on the rear also, if drum brakes new wheel cylinders. Also rear could be out of adjustment.
My 1989 Ranger had a brokern self adjuster cable when I first bought it, the brakes really sucked. I have had the truck almost 5 yrs now and have rebuilt front brakes, calipers all the way to bearings. The rear is out of a '84 Ranger, everything was in good shape including shoes. My truck will stop on a dime and give 8 cents change back.

TheExaminer

.....and make it look like THIS before slapping on hub, rotor, bracket caliper.

TheExaminer

I have four wheel disc setup, 92 Formy...... But yeah, I will definitely give them a call Monday.

backyardwrench

Why not check out salvage yard and get what you need? Figure the price on machine shop and salvage yard. Save you money there also. Get the spindles you need and go from there.

TheExaminer

Good idea, thx! Those things are prob'ly dirt cheap at a salvage yard, and you'd want to replace the bearings anyway. I could also do my work while keeping the car on the road too, then swap it out when ready. You guys have been a big help. Learned a lot about brakes on this thread!