Originally posted by 87t-5.0transam
Does anyone know where to get H.O. Alternators for our cars my alternator is getting pushed just a little to hard and i wanted to find something that pushes 140+ amps. Preferably wholesale or online. Thanks

Originally posted by Boomin Boy

but im not sure if you should need a HO alt for your setup...have you tried upgrading your magic three wires yet?

Originally posted by 87t-5.0transam
i'll check those. but daaaammmmn that is a nice system you have there i take it you are for SPL considering your running 2 18's? And i thought my system was loud sh*t, well thanks again also say those need to be replaced what kind of wire should i use? New automotive wire or special 4 gauge like the stinger wiring? *** if only i had the money for that kind of system and i thought 1500 bucks was alot lol

Originally posted by 87t-5.0transam
The 105 amp thats in there overheats when i turn up the system and causes the system to shut off and when that doesnt happen, at night all of my lights dim badly.

Originally posted by cronsformula350
I bet a few good capacitors would help cure your problem. Your amps are probably shutting down b/c your over driving them, or the preamp is being overdriven in the amp, too much signal will make the preamp section of them amp overheat, and cause it to shutdown, or fail. You may also need power wire with a higher current carrying capacity. Caps would really make your alternator, run cooler, since the caps will store up most of the current that will get sucked to the amps.

Originally posted by br()bert
1, IF you have a drain on your alt now adding caps will cause more of a strain on your alt now because caps need to be charged,correct solution? upgrade your 3 wires like boomin said. THEN if problem still is their upgrade alt.
2,over driving the pre amp signal?
2Caps make your alt run cooler, see number one.
Thanks for playing

Originally posted by cronsformula350
caps will not cause a drain on your alternator. Caps store energy, so that when the bass hits, and the amps pull more current, almost all of the current will quickly discharge out of the caps and feed the amps. A cap can store way more energy than an alternator can put out. A cap needs a steady flow of voltage, current will be there when its needed, also the capacitor acts as a buffer for the power being used from the alternator, it smoothens out the sign wave, why do you think that capacitors are used in computers, and almost every electrical circuit used? Do your homework, or take some serious calc. based physics, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

2nd. If your sending too much signal to the preamp section of an amp, your overdriving it, this can make it run hotter, because its being forced to take more than it wants. With preamps out of aftermarket head units, running to the amps, they're usually fine. But if your signal is weak, and you overdrive the amp by having the level(gain) up to high, its going to make the amp run hotter. Remember that an amplifier is always putting out its rated rms wattage, the wattage the amp puts out is not varied, but the signal is, so having the gain up to high, is straining the amp, because it may have more than it needs.

3rd. Running better power wires is a good idea, and whats the three about? Theres two wires, +, - are you including the remote wire, because that can be a 22 gauge and not affect how the amp works, or how hot the alternator runs. The alternator will run hot if its being asked to put out close to 100% of its current all the time, which will also shorten its life. And I highly doubt he needs a higher amperage alternator, most car stereos on the high end, with mosfet power supplied amps, only pull between 30-50 amps, up to the thousand watts of continous rms power, more than that then the current used will go up.

In my cavalier with 560 watts rms, a 1.0 farad cap and a stock 65 amp alternator, with the system on full blast, the alternator gets hot, but doesn't over heat, and on my ammeter, the stereo pulled no more than 30 amps, while the computer and car pulled a consistant 25-30 amps, so the highest the gauge would ever read would be 65 amps, with 4 gauge wire, this was never a problem, a good rule of thumb is too feel your power wire before the amps, if its warm, you need larger gauge wire, if its cool, your probably fine.

Originally posted by cronsformula350
boomin boy you obviously don't understand how caps work, take some physics my friend. Saying that caps drain your battery is like saying that amps don't use power. Thats how dumb of a comment that is. Also if a capacitor doesn't hold current and energy, then why are they used on compressors, a/c air conditioners, and any heavy duty equipment that needs to start something and keep it going? They also recharge alot smoother and faster than one understands. You don't understand caps at all. They use a slight amount of power to use, but don't act as a bandaid, "your a funny guy, boomin boy."

Also, large caps, can build up and hold more current than most alternators can produce, making them even more advantageous.

Originally posted by cronsformula350
a good rule of thumb is too feel your power wire before the amps, if its warm, you need larger gauge wire, if its cool, your probably fine.

Originally posted by br()bert
I think your missing the point as i said in my other post, you'll notice that people on here will disagree with 90% of what "YOU" say because your information is incorrect. You post alot of crap that the cap man. put out themselves. The info is to sell caps plain and simple. Its not facts its a marketing line. The fact is cars are nothing more than a small battery.If you need more juice for your system and have already addressed the 3 wires issue than a bigger alt is the solution NOT a cap. I think your the fool .. I see your posts full of bull**** nonsence like leagacy being better than rf,mtx,orion,kenwood. Then i see the "material doesnt matter when doing an instal"then the "feel the wire and see if its hot if its not your fine" YOu are the fool and the one who needs to be educated. We've all seen the pics of your radio shack equipment Please educate yourself before you come back on this site and try to even reply.

-the truth about caps-

"The only purpose for a cap is to prevent a change in voltage. Just like inductors oppose change in current. Caps are used to "stiffen" the power supply to an amp, but it is more like putting a bandaid on a broken leg. For extremely short bursts, caps can help with "light dimming" in your vehicle, but that is it. They don't do anything else. They don't "add" more power to your stereo or electrical system, they merely try to stabilize the voltage going to your amps, and since they are passive devices, they don't do that very well either. If you want voltage stabilization, there are only a couple products that do this. One of them is the Jacobs Electronics Accuvolt. It is an active voltave regulator that eliminates variations in voltage, and filters noise. But if your electrical system is not capable of supporting the demands of your system, the Accuvolt won't help either, in fact it will worsten the problem by drawing more current the lower your vehicle voltage goes. It still does more than a cap. The only real solution is a bigger alternator. Period. Power in=power out. Besides, with the cost of high-end caps, you won't spend much more money on a solid high-output alternator (about $210, give or take). "

"Capacitors oppose a change in voltage, just as inductors oppose a change in curent (ELI the ICE man from electronics 101). Caps do nothing for current. The only devices that do anything for current capabilities are batteries (passive) and alternators (active). Adding a bandaid (capacitor) can help for very brief bursts, but they are not effective storage devices at all. With a typical .003 ohm internal resistance for a 1 farad cap, it is only effective for .003 seconds (one time constant R*C= 1 time constant), where the cap has lost 62.3% of its initial charge. By .015 seconds (5 time constants), the cap has lost 99.99% of its initial charge, being rendered completely useless. As a "current stabilization" device, they aren't even useless. They store a fraction of an amp. Their engineering is based upon voltage stabilization. That's why they are used in power supplies, because they do a decent job at stabilizing output voltages, as long as the current is present (hence the jumbo inductors in power supplies). I have heard every urban legend imaginable about capacitors, but it boils down to one thing: caps don't do very much at all. Current draw is current draw. If you draw more current than your alternator produces (including vehicle demands), your battery tries to compensate. That is the first warning sign. When your battery starts losing energy, your electrical system starts wavering (lights dim). Adding a $100 bandaid (a passive bandaid at that) isn't going to fix the problem. If you aren't generating the current to begin with, nothing will permanently solve the problem except to generate more current, and that means upgrading your alternator"

"The properties of a capacitor determine how it will work. ELI the ICE man is what all 1st year electronics students learn to help them remember what caps and inductors do in an electronic circuit. The capacitor is used to oppose a change in voltage in AC circuits, because the current leads the voltage through a capacitor. The current goes through the power wire connected to the cap (and the battery and amplifier). If there is no drop in the vehicle's electrical system, then the cap just sits there without doing anything. When you tax the alternator past its cpabilities, the vehicle voltage drops, causing a shift on the plates of the capacitor. The plates on a 1 farad capacitor are HUGE, and store a significant amount of electrons at a potential determined by the electrical system of the car (the alternator- 14.4 volts). When this voltage dips, the cap discharges its stored energy to try to keep the voltage constant (at 14.4 volts). When it does so, it releases all of its energy quickly (.015 seconds to discharge 99.8% of its initial charge). This provides a simulated "voltage source" for the amplifier, thus stabilizing the input voltage, if only for a fraction of a second. The current never goes through the cap.

The current does suffer during this process, due to the fact that the alternator can not maintain the current production necessary for the stereo system. Once that happens, the battery tries to fill in, which is why the voltage drops (battery voltage starts at about 12.8 volts, and goes down as the stereo beats it up).

The only reason why the alternator and battery are at different voltages is because the charging source needs to be >5% higher than the battery, plus the voltage the connecting wires drop on the way to the battery). The amp will draw the current it needs, regardless of the voltage present, until the voltage drops below 10 volts or so, when the amp shuts off. Otherwise, you would not see as many symptoms when you push your alternator hard.

The capacitor's only job is to maintain voltage in the stereo system, nothing else. It's fundamentally flawed design prevent it from doing this very well at all, except for extremely short bass bursts. The alternator still gets pounded, and the electrical system as a whole still gets abused when excessive current is required for the stereo system. If the amp is designed to draw 150 amps, come hell or high water, it will draw 150 amps, even if it means driving the vehicle's electrical system down to 9.5 volts to do it.

As I have stated on many posts, capacitors are bandaids. The only purpose for them is to provide extremely short periods of stabilization for burps and other quick bass demands. They do not offer solutions for anything except peace of mind (until more serious electrical problems arise). If you are drawing too much current from your electrical system, you will eventually face much more costly bills than your $100 cap (alternator, battery, master fuse panel, etc). That is my $25.02 (a little more than .02 )"

Originally posted by 87t-5.0transam

boy this has been fun. Cap's do what they are meant to do but because they are so expensive and dont really help the amount of power in the system in the beginning they really dont matter so guys dont worry about it i knew that before i started this thread. thats why its asking about H.O. alts not which brand of cap i should get.

Now i think it is cute that if anyone new anything about head units they never would have said that i was overdriving my preamps a Pioneer DEH-P8500MP has 3, 4volt pre-outs. heh lol now about overdriving my amps my 4ch V12 is less than half way up and my V12 sub amp is about 3 quarters of the way up so i know that im not overdriving them. The three magic wires might be the problem but im still wondering if that'll fix my dimming lights and that the system just about sucked my battery dry. Would the wires be causing a problem in charging the batt? because say im driving on the highway doin 70 with my system off my batt indicator will be 1 tick above 13 but if im bumpin my music it will be sitting at 13 or right below it. Now would that be because the wires are crappy or am i overdriving my alt. Now i was told it was 105 amp i have no clue whatever the normal factory replacement alt for our cars is, is what i have. That and i watch my batt indicator likes to bounce with my music when im idling at the lights. im in the middle of a major drivetrain change so i havent gotten to look at them yet but i will go to walmart or even a weld shop to check out the wires and probably replace them. Now that is said. If my lights still dim and my batt indicator still jumps into the yellow zone THEN... should i get a H.O. Alt?

Originally posted by cronsformula350
Changing the wire from the alternator to the battery will help make it more efficient, but will still not increase the output of the alternator, seeing that the amp is sucking most of the power from the battery. Changing the ground and amp + wire would do the most good.

Originally posted by BruteForce
87t-5.0,

This is the Alt you would need. You can buy it through Summit racing for $165.00. Its rated at 140amps and is made specifically for your car as a high-output upgrade. It has the factory OEM wire connection plus comes with a heavier power lead (pictured) AND the unit is chromeplated.

The unledgeable tag in the picture reads:
Powermaster
Part #37861
set volt 14.7VDC
Output @ Idle: 86amps
Output @ highway speed: 141amps

Your stock alt is rated @ 105amps at highway speed.

Originally posted by Boomin Boy
if you have 3 inch exhaust with a 2 inch tip...it will only flow as good as 2 inch exhaust

Originally posted by onebadwagon
that is actually not true, not to start anything, with exhaust, a 3 inch system with a 2 inch tip will flow dramatically better than a 2 inch system, mainly because by the time the exhaust gets to the tip, it has cooled somewhat and occupies less space.



adam

Originally posted by cronsformula350
Changing the ground and amp + wire would do the most good.