Have a few questions. I've been reading about how to build a proper system and I understand its always evolving. Well my radio died, and my stock one, who knows what happened there.

So I ordered a new Pioneer, PIO DEHP4300. And its on its way. So I am wondering, sound I have speakers in the dash or go for the kick panels? I've already installed my rear ALPINE 6 x 9 in. 3-Way speakers in the back. But what would be the best option for up front? How abotu both?

 

I'm a relatively new Camaro owner, but judging from the placement of the dask speakers....it seems to set an AWFUL sound stage!

I would either install kicks instead of dash speakers....or upgrade the dash speakers AND install kicks. I'm actually thinking of angling the rear speakers frontward a few degrees as well.

My system is still in my truck, but I plan on moving it to the Camaro this summer....or I might just start from scratch with the Camaro.....even with the brand new upgraded speakers (Pioneer 4X6's in the front and Sony Explod 6X9's in the rear) it still sound like crap to me.

The sound stage is coming from all over the car....and being used to a nice front center sound stage....it really sounds horrid in the Camaro!

 

kicks only. If anything, you may want to try mid bass in kicks, and tweeters in the A-pillars. but the stock dash locations are so far from the edge of the windshield, it's really hard to get a wide stage there.

Also, keeping the back speaker volumes low will help your sound stage as well. The back speaker placements are too close to the listener to be a good rear fill.

mike

 

I figured I'd try to go alittle indepth for some of those that aren't familiar with the Kickpods. I even asked these questions myself.

Stock vs. Kicks

The dash speakers are just a waist of money. Why? First off they are 4x6's in our cars, 4x6's have no midbass what so ever. It doesn't matter which brand you get it or how much you stuff rags or etc. around the speakers to try and seal it up it just won't help that much. I mean a 4x6" speaker can only play so low. It's like comparing an 6 1/2" to a 10". Then 10" can play much lower the the 6 1/2". Another problem with 4x6's is power. Like the 6 1/2" to 10" comparison the 10" will be able to handle alot more power than what a 6 1/2" will be able to.
So far here's what problems we have with 4x6's: They have very little midbass, and can't handle much power. Can you mount a larger speaker in the dash? Yes but it's not easy.
In a Camaro you have alittle more room to play with than in a Firebird due to the Vent Duct on the Drivers side. In a Camaro you could install up to a 5 1/4" without a whole lot of modification but its possible. But to install a 6 1/2" you're gonna have alot of problems due to the Vent Duct and Gauges. It would require alot of cutting and cursing.
So you could get some larger speakers in the dash and lets say you cut up the dash and fight with it for hours just to get those larger speakers installed in the dash but only to find that now that you have more midbass but the Drivers side is louder than the Passenger Side. Even more so than it was before. Why? Because larger speaker can cover a much wider freqency range. The 4x6's were mainly covering the higher frequencies before. Ex: maybe 120hz up to where it's now 80hz up. These frequencies are very directional which is where imaging comes in to play. With that speaker being right in front of your face it's going to be louder that the one on the Passenger Side. So now we see that installing a larger speaker in the dash has helped with one problem but has also made another problem worse.
So how do we get proper Imaging and more midbass up front? With Kickpods. Kickpods are mount by the foot of the driver and passenger which holds your front soundstage.
How does the Kickpods fix the Imaging tho? By the speakers being mounted as far away as possible from the driver. It makes the distance from the driver to the left speaker and the distance from the driver to the right speaker a more equal distance. Ex: take your hand and try to reach the stock speaker on the drivers side. Now take your hand and try to reach the kick panel.
Notice how much further it is away compared to the stock location? Now check the distance from the driver to the stock speaker on the passenger side. Now check the distance from the driver to the kick panel on the passenger side. Notice the distance has barely changed.
So by installing in the Kicks we are pushing away the drivers side without effecting the passenger side. And also by using this location it also allows you to install much larger speakers in this location. Therefore fixing the Distance, Midbass, and Power problems.
The Imaging will depend on who makes the Kickpods. Let's say we buy DJ's Kickpods because we know he builds them correctly and now we have a good well balanced front soundstage with midbass.

What about using my Dash Speakers with my KickPods?
Now that the front soundstage is working perfectly but you want to keep using the 4x6's in the dash. Well earlier we noticed that with the stock locations the Imaging was way off so by using the stock locations with the kicks messes up the soundstage again due to the distances between the driver and the stock speaker location. This will cause the drivers side stock location to be louder than all of the other speakers in the front locations. And because you installed the larger and more powerful speakers in the kicks you can get all the volume you can stand out of the kicks depending on the speakers you mounted in the Kicks. Therefore the need for the stock locations are practically useless.

What about using my Rear Speakers with KickPods?
First let me start by saying that if you're kicks are installed properly and built correctly then the very next thing you noticed was "Dang that right rear speaker is loud!" And probably the second thing you'll say is "I can't even hear the one behind me! Is it even working?"lol Yea, that's what I did.
Now that your front soundstage is sounding almost perfect that right rear speaker pulls your ear toward it just like the front dash speaker was doing. Do to the locations of where the rear speakers are mounted (you can tell just by looking at them) that they seemed more as an afterthought than part of the design of the car.
So how do I fix the problem? Take them out, unhook them, or turn them all the way down via and L-Pad, gain control on an amp, or fader.
Now the only thing left to do is some fine tuning. This is going to take some time to get rid of the gap between the frontsound stage and the subs. What you're trying to do is bring as much of the bass up front as possible and have a smooth transition between the two. You will probably have to tweek the gains on the amp(s), level control, crossover points, and etc. I recommend to set everything a zero level and start from there. In my car I also found that switching or wiring the subs 180degrees out of phase helped me alot. I hope this helps alot of you guys out. And answers most of your questions. Good Luck, John

 

the dash speakers are to small to reproduce anything under 200 hz estimating without bottoming out at a semi-high volume. The first thing i did was put bass blockers on mine when i bought them (was low on cash and angry with sound). The kicks allow for larger speakers and proper aiming of the sound. the dash speakers just hit the highs against the windshield and into your face, and all you really hear is the driver side and that stinks.
GO KICKS!!!
~Tim

 

So it sounds like the 3rd Gen is just an awful base for a high end system. All 4 stock speaker locations are junk ;-) hehehe

 

actually, the 3rd gen is an awesome car to build a stereo in, if you are willing to do some fabrication. Yeah, stock speakers suck. But the door panels are just flat cardboard, perfect for building something custom off of. The kicks are pretty decent sized area, and the dash does not protrude out so far as to block the sound from them.

Then in the back, you have an unlimted amount of options for creativity with the subs and amps, limited only by your skill and imagination.

mike

 

That is true I guess. Most stock speaker locations are at least useable though ;-) hehehe These seem to suck *** for placements. I agree with the door panels though. Perfect canvas for whatever you want!

 

I think this answers alot of my questions along with something I have noticed, in my cutlass and older cars, I notice speakers usally in the same area in the back and always in the dash. But later on around 91 or so speaker locations moved to the doors and what not. You don't see any new cars with speakers in the dash anymore.

This makes good sense. So I think I'll finish up my kicks and buy some good speakers. Once I can get the right sound and performance out of what I'm using now, I'll add my amp. Once I've got it tuned and right I'll add my subs.

Thanks for your help guys.