I am going to replace my stock Quadrajet due to it is total lunch. Choke is permanently open, and the secondaries don't work. I want to replace it with a Holley or Edlebrock without the electric garbage. It was suggested to me that I should replace the distributo with a points-style with vacumn timing at the same time. What effect would this have on the computer? Would I need to replace it as well, or just leave the electric timing and choke harnesses unhooked?

 

Yes you have to replace the distributer, but not with points. Try to find a mechanial/vacuum advance HEI...$20-30 in a junkyard.

After that the computer doesn't do anything.

 

I would replace it with an HEI, Points systems get lame & costly after a while.
I would reccomend a holley vac sec if you have a 305 and avoid having the edelbrock WOT bog at lower rpm's. If you have a 350 than its totally user prefrence.
SSC

------------------
85 Camaro Z28, Cowl induction hood, Black-355/TB400,3:42 posi, Tons of goodies but if you ask, "Its stock"
82 Firebird, White, red in six months-355/TB350,3:42 Powertrax posi. Not an insane amount of goodies but it runs like a motha!
76 Chevy C10, Firemist blue, 355/Muncie HD 3speed,3:73 TorqLine posi. Show me another 12sec@4800ft SBC street truck??
91 GMC 1500 Sierra 4x4, Red, Was 4.3 now the proud recipient of the Firebirds LG4. 305/5 speed.
56 Buick Special, OG Blue&White, V8/auto. Maybee one day I'll get it going.

 

I have an '86 305 5sp car that was originally factory carb equipped and because it finally **** the bed I changed it over to an Edlebrock and open air cleaner atop. It works reasonably well for a car with 89000 miles and really no other mods. I'm not really a Holley fan myself, I prefer the Edlebrock and in this case for a 305 I think is the better bet. Mine has the electric choke. Beforehand I did have and still do a Hypertech chip which never really helped much, maybe 5-8 hp, not worth the $120.00 thats for sure. Howver I did change to an Accel Distributer and wires when I changed the carb, not that they're the best or anything but it was available and kinda cheap. I highly recommend staying with an HEI, DO NOT go 25 years backwards and go to a points system. Just my humble opinion. Anyone reading this have or know of 1996 or thereabout 17x9 SS rims available for sale? I need that offset to fit my IROC.



------------------

 

lol..you do realize the HEI got introduced over 25 yrs ago itself right?

 

More like 27 years ago.

Although the HEIs had good low-speed spunk, they don't do well above about 4500 rpms. An aftermarket coil and module, about another $100, will do wonders for a higher-revin' motor.

If you have an auto tranny, your TCC will no longer lock up automatically. You'll need to get a retrofit kit or rig up a switch.

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4, 2300 stall TC. Ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax 2050 cam. ZZ3/4 intake, oil pump, pan & baffle. Accel HEI SuperCoil & module. Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster 80. 2.93 limited slip. Spohn SFCs waiting to be installed. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily year-round driver. Best ET, speed TBD...
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7:1 forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 700 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

 

I'm sorry, TCC? U lost me there... What is a TCC? Damn, I need to sit down and read my haynes manuel....

 

TCC = Torque Converter Clutch.

He's saying without the computer, your torque converter won't lock up any more. He's right--the lockup is controlled by the ECM.

 

So what happenes if it doesn't lock up? How difficult is it to install a retrofit kit, and where can I get one?

 

Well you dont have to pull the computer, you could just disconnect the check engine light and leave the reat of the ecm alone and the TCC will still lock up. A kit to fix the TCC so nothing will burn up cost me $80 installed by a tranny shop. Of course my trans burnt up any way. You can get an aftermarket wiring harness that will allow your TCC to operate the same as the ECM controll, its $140+.
IMO its better to leave the ecm attached and pop the check engine bulb.
SSC

 

How would it still lock up if the carb is no longer connected to the comp? I thought that was the whole point of five7kid's post.

 

The retrofit kit replaces the function of the computer, so the input from the carb is no longer required.

The tranny board discusses this fairly regularly.

 

The MCS has nothing to do with the TCC locking up. The carb doesent know the car is going 45+.
SSC

 

It's the TPS signal that the ECM wants from the carb, along with the vehicle speed sensor (aren't you glad I didn't just say VSS?). Without either one, the ECM will not provide the lockup signal to the TCC.

Hunter's talking about removing the CC carb and going to a mechanical unit. Not only will the SES light come on and stay on (unless the bulb is removed), without the CC carb the TCC lockup will not work. The retrofit kit is more like $75 from Summit or Jegs. I haven't done it, but others say it works fine (some say don't use the vacuum function).

The choke wire is not associated with the computer - it's a power wire to the electrically heated choke thermostat, which is also used on Holleys, Edelbrocks, and even older non-CC q-jets.

Having said all that, for a street driven car (especially daily driver), the CC carb is a much better choice than any mechanical carb. You'll probably spend less money getting a quality rebuilt q-jet than you would converting to non-CC.

Did anyone mention a Holley or Edelbrock square-base carb won't mount directly to your intake manifold? You'll either have to get an adapter, or an intake with both bolt patterns. EGR valve is another issue.

Let's add it up: New Holley or Edelbrock carb, $250-$400; adapter $40, or intake manifold, $160; junkyard HEI with upgraded coil & module, $125-$150. TCC lockup kit, $75. Total: $490-$785. Or, rebuilt E4ME q-jet (Holley reman from partsamerica.com), $320 (+ $30 core & shipping).

Still want to go through with this conversion?

 

U have a point there. Does it matter that all the emissions control stuff has been removed? Does that affect the electronics attached to the carb at all?

 

LOL Where on earth did you get those prices?

I just bought a complete and exc. condition Holley 750DP for $20, I've bought several for $35 or under. A rebuild kit is another $20.
An adapter is only $20 OR a Stealth is only $90, both from Summit.
My junkyard distributers cost me $25 each, and the electronics worked fine on all. $5 for a recurve kit is a good idea.
You can reuse the cap/rotor/coil from your large cap CC dist.
Switch to operate the lockup is $2.

That totals to $92-177.

Greatly improved performance and never having to put up with a computers bullcrap again: PRICELESS.


------------------
"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

 

Ever considered trying out for Junkyard Wars?

 

Actually..yeah I'd kick *** on that show

 

If "all" of the emissions stuff has been removed, then yes, it will make a difference to the negative. Removing just the A.I.R. pump, for instance, will not, though.

I've got a fully functioning CC system that simply runs great. It was a dog before I did the heads, cam and exhaust (and air cleaner). I haven't done anything to the carb from Day One except adjust the idle speed and tune the secondaries. I really wonder when people say their CC carb is DOA if they simply have one bad piece of the system or have done something they shouldn't have that is making it act up. Or, something else is causing a problem (like a bad fuel pump or spark plugs) so that changing the carb and all of the associated pieces won't do a thing for them.

Is your SES light bulb working? Have you ever set any trouble codes?

 

Check engine light is working. No codes as of yet. At the moment, the choke dosen't work, and is set completely open. The secondaries don't work. If I floor it, all it does is bog down. And, all the emissions stuff is gone.

 

There's a big difference between "secondaries don't work" and "bogs down when you floor it".

The former implies the AV doesn't pivot due to damage, or something to that effect. The latter is either a simple tuning issue (adjusting the AV tension and/or changing rods & hangers) or a bad choke pull-off.

The fact that you say you've removed "all emissions stuff" suggests to me you've removed things you shouldn't have.

I think you are giving up entirely too soon. If you WANT a non q-jet carb, that's one thing. If you think you NEED a non q-jet to solve your problems, you're most likely going to spend more money than you need to, and are probably in for some disappointment.

Stock CC q-jet systems can be made to rock, and for less money than you'd spend changing them out unless you're going junking with Jester. Since you're having trouble figuring out your current system, I really wouldn't suggest going used parts like Jester gets with unknown origins.

 

I got the car from my father in law. He said that the secondaries do not work. By "emissions stuff", I mean all of the smog control, smog pump unhooked/no belt, exhaust manifolds removed with all attached emissions control equp and replaced with headers. Unfortunatly, I don't know too much about carbs yet, but I am slowly learning.

 

I think your father-in-law has some things to learn about carbs as well. You can't determine if the secondaries are working by rapping the throttle while watching with the air cleaner off. If you adjust the AV so it opens while doing that, that's a sure receipe for WOT bog. The only way to check the AV is under load with engine speed up - meaning driving or on a dyno.

"Smog control" includes the carb & distributor to some people. I assume you don't mean that. I also assume you still have the O2 sensor in the driver's side header collector.

 

By emissions I mean all the stuff that was on the exhaust manifold, and connected to smog pump. Don't know about the O2 sensor, have to look when I get home. Assuming that it is gone, what then?

 

Damn. Fergot in my last post. How can I adjust the secondaries on the carb and then determine if they will actually work, or will the emissions being gone adversly affect it?

 

Forgot also, when I got the car, all of the electronic connectors were unhooked from the carb, and it ran. A little rough, but the tranny shifted through all the gears, and the only hesitation was at WOT, which it still does, probably due to the "secondary" problem, I think.

 

Okay, let's catch up a little bit here.

Removing the A.I.R. tubes to the manifolds will not directly affect the way the carb works in its feedback (closed loop) mode, or the secondaries.

For adjusting the secondaries, there is a good "how to" in the tech articles on this board ( https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/quadrajet.shtml ).

With the connectors disconnected from the carb, it will go to a fully enriched state, and the distributor will go to a default "limp home" mode, which will provide only minimal timing adjustments. It will run, but will only be marginally driveable at best, and should set trouble codes in the ECM (SES light comes on and stays on).

I'm becoming more encouraged by what you're saying that you can get this thing to work properly. I'd say don't give up and go to the "dark side" just yet.

 

Given that I cannot currently afford to replace the carb, i would prefer to try to fix it before giving up entirely on it. I have a lot to learn.

 

Also, what about the choke not working? Or, rather, how can I determine if is is or is not working? Also (2), I reconnected the electrical connetors on the carb, and it did not seem to change anything...although, before I reconnected, it liked to stall out when coming to a stop...just every once in awhile...and has not done it since...

 

I happen to be at Cape Canveral right now, was planning on flying home Friday. But, if things don't go off as planned, they're threatening to make me stay over the weekend. If that happens, maybe I should shoot up your way this weekend and take a look at it with you.

Otherwise, there are other choke problems posted on this forum. Go look through them and see if that helps you understand a little better how it works. The Haynes Rochester Q-jet book available at parts stores would be helpful as well.

 

Thanks for the offer, but I will be working all weekend. Damn second job. Oh, well, at least, after the 1st of the year, I will be able to use tips to finance car repairs and such. I am going to try to adjust the secondaries on Sunday before I go to work and see if I can get them to work properly.

 

Just as well. Turns out I'm heading home tomorrow anyway.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

On that tech article that you directed me to, do you adjust the secondaries with the car running, or with the engine off?

 

Running or not doesn't make any difference. But, not running is probably preferred.

You test the effect of the change on the road (or track), not in the garage or driveway.

 

Well, I tried to adjust per the instructions in the tech article, but no matter how far I turned the screw with the spring on it, the secondaries never even moved. The little bar that runs from the screw to the secondaries, and causes them to open, i think, stayed loose.

 

They only move when under load. You aren't going to see anything when you're under the hood.

If you had the hood and aircleaner off, took it for a drive, you may be able to see them open when you nail it (might be best to have a spotter riding shotgun so you can keep your eyes on the road).

 

In the tech article it says: "Turn the adjusting screw counter-clockwise until the AV flops open on its own. Now slowly turn it clockwise until the AV just shuts." The av never moved at all when I was turning the adjustor screw, which I took to be the screw with the spring wrapped around it.

 

The point there is to remove all of the tension from the AV spring, then move back in the tension direction get the "zero" point from which to determine future adjustments.

When I remove all the tension from mine, for instance, the back of the AV flap moves down about a quarter of an inch. Not exactly "open", but not closed, either.

 

My point was that it did not move at all, no matter how far I turned the screw in either direction. Of course, it is possible that I loosened the wrong screw prior to attempting to turn the adjustor. The tech article said to loosen a screw, then turn the adjustor. Where exactly is that screw?

 

My point is that it may not move without pushing on it if it is just even a little sticky.

The locking screw is under the airhorn, just under the slotted adjustment screws you can see from the side. Loosen the lock screw, and turn the adjusting screw with a small flat tip. Hold it in place (a 1/2 turn is a good place to start), snug up the lock screw. Go for a test drive.

The AV should open when you push down on the back of one of the flaps, pulling the rods up as it rotates. If the AV doesn't rotate at all, you need to investigate that. It should not rotate, however, when the engine is idling, as the choke pull-off will be holding it closed.