Let me start from the beginning. Last week, when it started getting cold, the car started hard. Even when it was warm, it wasn't running right. Black exhaust. A passerby who just so happened to know his *** from a hole in the ground (I'll admit that I don't) says the choke needs to be adjusted. We looked under the hood and it turns out that the choke freely turns in the housing. So I drill out the rivets and get screws.

Since then I've been trying to adjust the choke properly (not knowing how, mind you) and no matter what, the car runs terrible. Even with it fully warmed up, and the choke open, it runs bad. So it's not the choke, right?

It runs okay at ~2000+ RPM, but won't idle at any temperature. Fouls plugs like there's no tomorrow. Spews gas from the primaries when I'm trying to start it.

According to the search button on this messageboard, that means that I need a needle and seat. Which is included in a rebuild kit. OK, fine.

So I brake ride it up to Advance Auto Parts. They're open on Sunday. After telling the kid behind the counter what car I've got and what I need, his computer tells him to tell me, "Sorry, all we've got for your car is a fel-pro base gasket and a Holley Pro-Flow EFI kit."

"No carburetor rebuild kit?"
"No, sorry."
"How about a needle and seat?"
"What's that?"

....what? What's wrong with this picture? Aren't parts stores supposed to have, you know, parts? What's a GOOD parts store to go to anyway? I think I'm done with this place. I know next to nothing about cars and these people know even less.
Thanks for the help,
Homer
P.S. By the way, am I at least on the right track as to what parts to get?

 

lol..thats pretty funny.

Yeah you are on the right track. I dunno why advance doesn't carry a Q jet rebuild kit tho..they should. I suspect they do and the kid at the counter was just an idiot. Try another store...dunno what else to tell ya.

 

Thanks, Jester. It's always good to hear I'm at least headed in the right direction.

By the way, what causes a needle/seat to go bad? Was it something I did? Or is it just coincidence it went with the choke?

 

The kid hit the wrong button when he was going through the menus on what kind of car you have. Hit "TPI" or "F" or something other than 4bbl or "H" or "G".

Needle and seats get contaminated, #1 cause for failure. Change the fuel filter while you're at it.

That it happened at same time as choke would be coincidence, unless you got something into the fuel system while you were drilling.

 

I did the fuel filter last month, I'll check it again. Well, for a buck and a half I should probably just replace it anyway.

No, he really didn't hit the wrong button. I watched him. It's a 1988 Caprice 350 (ex-guvment car). 350's were only available with a quadrajet. No Tpi. No Tbi until the next year. Cops don't dick around with unproven, bogus technologies, ya know.

What else besides metal shavings can cause contamination? I put in a bottle of fuel line cleaner the day before, could that be it? Well, when I get the parts in my hand I'll be able to take a look.

Do rebuild kits come with instructions? I have Roe's book with all the pictures in it but I don't want any surprises. What curve ***** can I expect that I don't see coming right now? Am I going to need some obscure tool I've never heard of? Do I need to put my carb back together with epoxy?
Thanks,
Homer

 

Just tell him to give you the catalog their carb rebuild kit company publishes and gives to every parts store and look it up yourself. Youll need the carb I.d. and such of course. Counter people are idiots, I used to worked parts and you would be amazed at the amount of idiocy I saw amongst my coworkers. Knowledge of cars is not a requirement.

 

Where on the carb is this number?

I think I'm going to give another company a chance today. Any suggestions? Where do you like to buy your carb parts?

Plus, I kind of doubt they would still have real, paper catalogs anymore. Computers are the ultimate answer to everything, you know.

 

Check out this web site for everything you need to know or want for Q-jets.
http://www.carbs.net/index.htm

Good luck.
Andy.

PS They shipped a carb to me in the UK last month. Runs perfectly. They will also give you advice on the phone.

 

Why do the needle and seats come in sizes?
Is there such a thing as too big?

 

Hey, is it possible for a needle/seat to get uncontaminated? Maybe if it's rinsed off with enough gas? I'm asking because lately this car's been running ok, and I haven't done anything with it.

I'm confused.

 

There is such a thing as a float getting stuck, then freeing itself. That's why the old "hammer handle" trick can work at times.

As for your parts source, it would be a good idea for you to find a real automotive parts supplier in your area, instead of one of the auto parts "supermarkets" that seem to be popping up everywhere. Those are great if you want neon lights or air fresheners, not repair parts. Most of the chains are "slaves" to parts distribution networks which they cannot go around if the network doesn't have a part available. Auto parts supply houses have unlimited resources for parts availability, and likely will have machining facilites. It might be good to get "cozy" with them if you ever plan to do any real work.

 

What's the "hammer handle trick?"

 

Hit it with a hammer handle

 

My favorite method of clearing a piece of junk from the needle/seat is to disconnect the fuel line from the carb, plug it, start the engine and run the carb out of gas. Reattach the fuel line, start it up again.

When the fuel bowl is overfull from a contaminated needle/seat, the float will push up harder and hold on to whatever is in the needle/seat. With the above action, the fuel goes down, the float drops down, and when you start it again, the rush of fuel in with the float down and needle off of the seat can clear the debris.

The hammer handle will free a stuck needle, but not if there is something between needle & seat.

 

This is great, and I'm learning a lot.

But if I want answers, I'm just going to have to open it up and see what's going on.

Tell me this, are carb gaskets like head gaskets, only good for one shot, or are they reusable if intact? I want to take it apart today or at least this week, and I want to make sure I have everything I'll need to reassemble.

 

That depends. If the gasket has been on there for a long time....it will have cemented in place and you'll destroy it pulling the carb apart. If it's pretty new..usually it'll come off in one piece and can be reused...not always. You're gonna have to examine it for tears or chunks missing once it's apart. So long as the gasket is intact you can reuse it.

 

Makes sense to me.

Well, here's what I did. I tapped the front of the carb with the handle of a hammer, disconnected the fuel line, ran it till it quit (started fairly easily, btw). Fuel filter looked ok and intact. Reconnected it, started it. Started up well again. Adjusted the choke so it opens fully at about 110 degrees (does that sound right? the motor seemed to think so). Exhaust color was good.

Ran around the block, fully warmed up. Seemed to drive ok, but a tad rough. Doesn't seem to like it when I floor it from cruise speed. Sputters for about three quarters of a second, then runs. Seems to have less power than I remember, and continues to have a little bit of a sputter while it's being floored.

I think I've alleviated my original problem some, but I still want to open up the carb and clean it out sometime. I believe it's still running rich, and that's why it doesn't like the pump shot, runs rough, and eats gas. I want to get a new cap/rotor as well, as I think a weak (probably factory original) ignition system doesn't help any.

...And I'm going to quit going to Advance Auto, pick someone new out of the phonebook. I'll go to.......let's say, Carquest.

 

Carburetor gaskets are typically just laminated compressed fiber, and have very little varnish or binding agent (so they will tear apart very easily). Fortunately, you can also use this to your advantage by soaking the gaskets (assembled, of course) with a penetrating oil. This will help swell the gasket material and break bonds with the die castings, improving your likelihood of getting them off in one piece. Soak the exposed edges of the gaskets with WD-40 or another non-evaporating penetrant, and wait a day or so. Separate the pieces very carefully and be prepared to help the gaskets release with a very sharp scraper, X-Acto knife, or single edged razor blade.

When you've had to separate old carburetor parts from Holley updrafts (aircraft) you have to improvise, since you need the olds gaskets intact to cut new ones. If it were'nt an FAA no-no, most times the gaskets could be reused. Youe car has no such restrictions, so have at it.

 

I didn't know you could save the gaskets. Thanks, I'll try that.

I've decided I better put some attention into this carb. My last half tank of gas gave me 5mpg.

Is there anything else I should look at while I'm in there? What else usually goes bad with time? I want to fix everything in there that'll probably go bad soon anyway.

 

As long as you're going to the trouble of removing the top of the carburetor, just remove the two nuts from the rear flange and take the whole thing off. While it's off you should closely inspect the pressed-in plugs in the main metering wells for signs of leakage. Even if they are not leaking, it would be a good idea to stake/pein the metal around them to tighten the plugs, then apply a thin coat of metal-bearing epoxy, like JB Weld or equivalent, to seal these plugs completely.

With the carb completely removed, you can clean it thoroughly, remove all sediment, and adjust everything that's necessary.

Make sure teh MC solenoid is free and meter the TPS resistance over its entire range of operation before you reinstall the carb, or you could be doing it all over again.

 

Sealing those pulgs is a very common and good practice..but you can't use JB weld. It's not gas proof.

 

Really? Ive never had any plug leak after I JB welded it.

Another cute trick with the CC Qjet is the self cleaning O2 sensor trick, probably works on TBI/TPI as well I just never tried it.
Theres a little white wire by the heater/ac blower motor in the engine compartment not plugged into anything just laying there.
If you ground this wire it closed the MCS and makes the carb run lean, this cleans the O2 sensor and spark plugs.

 

I've used JB weld on every carb I've EVER assembled and never had any problem...

Where'd you get that it's not gas proof?

 

I had it flake off a gas-exposed repair I did once. I assumed it was because of the gas..but I guess I could be wrong.

 

i got my q jet rebuild kit at advanced auto, it was 16.99, came with the needle and seat and bunch of gaskets couple of charts and o rings, check ball, not bad for the price.

 

if u go to pepboys they carry rebuild kits for carbs. im not sure how much they are but i think u might have a better chance at a pepeboys since i know they carry them since i work there.

hey if u want give me info on the engine size, make, model and year of the car the engine came from if u used an engine out of another car and ill check for ya if we have it.

 

It's a 1988 Caprice Classic with a 350.
According to the advance auto website, they have one made by niehoff for 16.99 (probably similar to the one you were talking about JunkHead). That's why I was so mad that they didnt have it in stock. How can you not have something so basic in stock? Oh well. If I really have to I'll special order it. Seems retarded though.
Thanks!

 

ill find out tomarrow if we carry it, i just wrote down ur info, so ill get back to u probably around 3:00ish

 

One thing I've noticed is that the pep boys ones are slightly more expensive than Autozone/Advance Auto. There's a reason for it, too... the Pep Boys ones come with new accelerator pumps and the others don't.

 

Do you know who makes the ones Pep Boys sells? I think I want to look at my accelerator pump actually. Car doesn't like the pump shot and it may or may not be related to the original problem.

 

The Pep Boys kits are Borg Warner.

 

yup borg warner. i trust there stuff, since they make the 9 bolt rear, trannys ive seen a few, and tons of replacement parts.

 

hey Homer i got the part number and the price for the rebuild kit today for ya. the part number is - 10868 and its 34.99 for the kit. thats the price and PN# from pepboys. depending on where the closest one by u is located the price will varey (sp) a few bucks becuz of how its located , weather its a urban store or a suburban store. pretty stupid huh. hope that helps

 

This carb has been rebuilt before. And I'm not sure the guy did a good job. The bottom of the throttle body has screwdriver gouges in it. That's no good.
[IMG]C:\Program Files\IBM PC Camera\Album\cap_044.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]C:\Program Files\IBM PC Camera\Album\cap_045.jpg[/IMG]
Here's a picture of the bottom of the main well. I think this is the reason my car hasn't run well lately. The brown epoxy doesn't look like it can hold gas anymore.
[IMG]C:\Program Files\IBM PC Camera\Album\cap_052.jpg[/IMG]
Because of this, a previous owner has tried to compensate with the idle screws. The one with the larger leak is turned in much farther than the other side.
Since I'll be plugging the leak, I'll have to reset my idle screws. Any tips on the best way to do this?
Thanks,
Homer
P.S. And the secondary rods are the DR kind that 5.7Kid says are pretty good. The hanger is an S. BY the way, what does the ball under the screw do?

Edit: Oh well, the pictures won't post. I'll figure that out some other day.

 

The ball under the screw is the "check valve" for the intake port
of the accelerator pump. Without that ball, the fuel under the accelerator pump would be pushed back into the float bowl
instead of into the pump discharge tract and out of the discharge
nozzles.

 

WHere in Ohio are you from Homer? If in the central Ohio area I can give you a few good ideas of good places to find parts, new and used.

 

Hey, cool! I'm right here in Columbus! I'd like that, thank you.

 

i dunno if this has been discussed yet, but as an employee of advance auto parts, i know for a fact they have qjet rebuild kits. bought one tonight. unfortunately, not everyone that works for the company is motivated or bright enough to look for them. got a huge catalog for rebuild kits actually too. so trying to remove a bit of the tarnish our lesser quality employees have placed on us. if you need anything, pm me and maybe be able to help a few others around here.

 

Yeah, it sounds like your float was stuck with debris. replae that fuel filter ASAP. Also, if you were running liek that for any amount of time, expect gas in the oil. You really should change it ASAP after getting the float unstuck.

 

I enjoy a trip to Pep Boys, or Advance Auto, or AutoZone as much as anybody, but when I think of a real auto parts store, I'm thinking of NAPA, or any other place where the REAL repair shops order their parts.

Typical phone conversation with a NAPA counterperson:

"Hi, this is Joe from ABC Auto. I need a carb repair kit for an '88 Caprice, 350 4 barrel, VIN "K" as in King, production date 11/87, Rochester Quadrajet."

Counterman: "OK, be right over".

I guess what I'm saying is, try to deal with guys who know their business, you don't usually see "Help Wanted-No Experience Necessary" signs in a real trade shop. I have literally met the same guy behind the counter in an AutoZone who, three weeks before, was working in a cell phone store.

I'm not downing the guys who work in your local AutoZone,
they may really know their stuff, just making an observation.

 

this post is so old ill bet this thread was only a transcription from some hieroglyphics someone found in a cave