Do I have stock swirl port heads?

The car has stock heads for a 87 LG4(roller), which it is.

How much power could I gain from getting World S/R torquer 305 heads?

The only thing I don't know about my combo is the stats on the cam, but dyno results showed the HP peak at 4,400 RPMs and Torque around 2,900 RPMs (this is without the MSD box, coil and wires which helped my car alot). The rest of my info is in sig.

If anyone tells me to just get a 350 I will probably just delete everything.

 

No talk of 350

The advantage to the S/R Torquer is that you can get the bigger valves without increasing your chamber volume, thus lowering your compression. They are decent heads, but from what i have read, really need some porting to perform really well. If you really want to keep the 305, they are good heads for it. PM Five7, he has some on his 305.

 

i have heard mixed reviews on the s/r torquers. i think they would be a great platform for some awesome heads but they need some work. i also think that you can take a set of 416 casting heads and make the same power for cheaper. you can find these heads in j/y's and on the classifieds here on the boards for less then $50 a pair. put big valves and do a good p-n-p on them and they are pretty great for power, people even run them on 350's. i know there is a later model version that they used on tpi305's but i can't remember the casting number.

i ran a 13.75@100.5mph with a stock runner/valve 416 heads.

 

Your heads should be 091 casting; same as TPI 305s from 87 up, same basic casting as 416 except with center-bolt valve covers.

Your RPM numbers look like you have the stock LG4 cam as well; the infamous "peanut" cam. https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml near the bottom of the page; the one ending in 155.

 

yeah, those where the heads i was thinking of...i knew they started with an "0", lol. RB, your the man, let me tell ya!


pre: if you have the time/second vehicle/money. i would take the heads off the car that you have, go down to a locally well known shop to have a set of 1.94/1.60 valves put in (biggest you can go without having to notch the block) and have them hog the ports out. you can do this portion yourself, there are even articles found on this site about home porting. but honestly, i am too afraid to do that. lol. while the heads are off, put in a new cam, something in the .450" lift range with duration of no more than 224*. my cam is awesome: 214/224 duration with a split .442"/.465" lift. blue racer cam put out by crane.

 

So I shouldn't have the swirl ports, but something similar to TPI heads?

So how much power gain can I get from cleaning up these heads or getting the World ones and cleaning up thoses?

 

Nope, no toilet bowl crap. Those are the "187" (for the 305) and the "193" for the 350's.

Look to the thread in Sitting Bull's sig. He has a good bunch of info there on how to clean up 305 heads. The guide can be followed either way for the pre-87 heads such as the "416" or "601" castings as well as your "081" castings (RB had a minor typo).

 

It's really hard to get apples-to-apples data on heads. About 4 years ago, Popular Hot Rodding magazine had an article about the World S/R Torquer 305 heads with dyno tests comparing them to stock heads on a 305 TPI. The engine had been freshly rebuilt, with a Comp cam they called "close to stock", and the stock heads had a 3-angle valve job freshening - it put out 190 HP.

Then they took the World heads, treated them to a pocket porting job, bolted them on, and pulled 238 HP - almost a 50 HP increase.

However...

They never took the stock heads, gave them 1.94" intake valves & a pocket porting job, and put them back on to see how they would do. I'd call that an unfair fight.

To make the 081 heads "as good as" pocket-ported Worlds, you'd have to port the heads, install 1.94" intake valves, install better valve springs, and either pin the rocker studs or have the heads machined for screw-in studs. The guides should also be cut to insure adequate clearance for a large cam, and positive type valve seals. That's all after you've had the stock heads checked for cracks. Stock heads have also been known to have core shift, which could leave you breaking into water while porting. Over the years, I've argued on this board that by the time you do all that, you'll have almost as much money in stock heads as you'd have in the Worlds. What you wouldn't have is the Worlds' slightly better combustion chamber shape, thicker deck, and more accurate castings. The Worlds also don't have the stud holes protruding into the intake ports. But, I wouldn't consider the Worlds without at least having the bowls cleaned up (you know, "pocket porting").

Another reason I chose the Worlds is this car is my daily driver. By having the heads loose, I could drive the car until I was ready to install all of the modification parts. Taking the heads off and porting them, along with new guides (another additional cost to consider), which they needed, would have run me about the same as what I had in the Worlds.

What I haven't figured out yet is what this question/thread is doing on the Carb forum...

 

I think something that is being overlooked is the compression issue. If you reuse your heads, and have bigger valves installed, you are going to have to increase your combustion chamber volume. At least into the 60's. Doesnt sound likea big increase, but it is. Most times it falls around 63CC, and that is just too big for a 305, IMO.

 

If that's an issue, mill off .020". That will take off about 3cc's, and will also help to unshroud the valves a little. Use a steel shim gasket, and you'll be in good shape.

My "issue" goes the other way - what to do if a 350 shortblock finds its way into the garage. I'll have to up the chamber volume a little, which I can do either by unshrouding (which isn't bad now, anyway), or thicker gaskets.

FWIW, several people have put 64cc Vortecs on 305's. The extra flow and improved combustion chamber shape more than make up for the reduced compression (with flat top pistons, anyway).

 

you don't need to increase the comustion chamber size to put a 1.94/1.60 valve combo in these heads, i don't know where you heard that, but it's misinformation.

 

If you want the valves unshrouded, you do.

 

Seems like more money spent on stock castings. I'm not knocking them, I use 305 heads on my 350, I just think that if he has the cash for the World S/R's, he may be better off going that route.

Yes, you do. I didnt "hear" it anywhere. I learned it from doing it. Read what Five7 put above and you can learn too.

 

Here I am, after all these arguements over all these years, defending stock castings...

About the cam:

Comp 264H or Crane 2032 compucam.

 

guess i know a lot less about this thing then i thought. what is this "shrouding" "unshrouding" i keep hereing about.

 

Its clearancing in the chamber area to allow flow past the valve. Without proper "unshrouding" its common for a head to flow less with bigger valves. I have some pictures of my heads somewhere, if i can dig em up I will post a pic to show you. I started with 60CC heads, and ended up at 65cc.

 

I'm going to go with the World heads but not for a while just trying to get some info.

When I get the heads I will get some work done to them.

What exaxctly should I get done and how much does usually cost?

I think the cam is also somewhere around the stats on the comp 264 but the speed shop never gave me my cam card and doesn't seem to wanna find the records(didn't know much at the time and let them pick the cam still don't know much).

If I get the World S/R torquer 305 heads and get some work done do you think I will get around 30-40 more hp?

I posted this in the carb section, well because my car was stock carberated and still is so I figured you guys would know the most about the set-up.

It's kinda weird how the carb section hardly has any info compared to the TBI and TPI sections eventhough a good chunk of thirdgen came carburated stock

 

That sucks that you cant get that cam information from the builder, I hope that doesnt mean the put a generic 30 year old grind like the 929 cam or a similar POS. They come cheap, and plentiful.

There is plenty of potential in the S/R Torquer heads, I am sure you can get your goals. I believe those already come with screw in studs, you wont need to worry bout machine work. As far as porting, its a lot of $$$ to have heads ported, you may want to take some stock castings to practice on, and then give it a go yourself, its REALLY not hard to do. Search for a user called SittingBull, he has a good article linked in his sig.

Actually there are a lot of guys here willing to share a lot of good info, its just that many of the "younger" guys think carbs are old garbage and FI is the only way to go.

 

If all else fails or you lose faith in the cam you are inquiring about (I know I would), Summit sells cam kits for $80 and that includes lifters.

 

Well it was a new Comp roller cam and roller lifter set when I got it put in two summers ago, I don't have part number or anything.

 

I'm going to go with the World heads but not for a while just trying to get some info.

When I get the heads I will get some work done to them.

1. What exaxctly should I get done and how much does it usually cost?


2. If I get the World S/R torquer 305 heads and get some work done do you think I will get around 30-40 more hp?

Can someone answer these questions I asked earlier